-6

I'm referring to this meta question.

Is it fair to say there are two "modes" when these types of questions are asked? The first being a bad path (xy problem or lack of awareness of options, etc.) and the second being an exception path (valid reason for doing something unconventional). The top answer to this question aligns with the "unconventional path", most of the other answers assume the asker is on the "bad path".

Do we need/want some way to flag rare/unconventional answers as such?

I've asked two questions that I think fall into this "square wheels" category, one Python related and one Git related. The former has "don't do that" as the top-voted answer, and the unconventional answer (provided eventually by me after more research) getting the second highest votes. The latter was asked two days ago and went to -6 votes within 10 minutes. It is currently at 0 votes (I assume downvoters changed their votes after the exchange in the comments), but does not have any answers currently. I'm open to critique/suggestions for how to ask the question better, but that isn't the point of this meta question. Citing the questions is more about transparency regarding what is driving this question.

As a question asker, it would be fantastic to leverage the experts on Stack Overflow to help me understand the implications of going down an exception path. From my experience, I'd guess that these exceptions arise from unique situations where there are additional costs of the "best practice" solutions. Cases where there is no easy choice, but rather a choice between less-bad answers. Maybe it won't work at all. Maybe it is possible (and even considered reasonable) under specific circumstances. Maybe there are specific, but not obvious, items to be aware of that can be pointed out. All possibilities well suited to the Stack Overflow format.

I understand one of the concerns is that these answers could lead to beginners thinking the exception is not that exceptional. But I hope the goal is to help beginners and experts alike, which is where I think some sort of identifier would help.

Brainstorming

  • I guess a tag would be easiest (unconventional). A problem here is that the asker probably doesn't know if it is a valid tag until it is answered. It could also be abused by beginners. EDIT: I don't think this is good solution, but it seems like it fits easily within what Stack Overflow already provides.
  • It seems like a tag or flag on specific answers would be a clearer indication, and allow a beginner answer to be differentiated from an expert (buyer beware) answer. I am not sure if this is possible, though. EDIT: I think an enhancement along these lines would be fantastic.
  • Maybe you need both? A way for the asker to say that they understand the space of the question well enough to know the question is unusual (to avoid the quick downvotes) and a way to differentiate the answers. EDIT: I think the second bullet provides the most value.

It would be fantastic, if I knew I was asking about an exception, to be able to search only the answers flagged as such.

9
  • No tag please! A presumably naïve question (I think this falls under your parameters) can have an obvious answer, which will be upvoted by beginners, and an expanded answer that ventures deep into the language specifics, which usually is extremely useful for more advanced members. Both types have their merits.
    – Jongware
    Apr 22, 2018 at 16:56
  • @usr2564301 I agree. Maybe I wasn't clear on that. My preference would be an indication on the answer instead of the question. You could even take it as far as having two accepted answers, one for beginners and one for experts. It is exactly the fact that there are two possible answers/modes that I wanted to discuss. Do you have a suggestion other than tags? Apr 22, 2018 at 17:12
  • 2
    I guess the root of this is a feeling that SO is trending towards catering to the beginner, at the expense of the expert, and if there are changes that could better help support both. Apr 22, 2018 at 17:14
  • I have precisely such a question in mind – something about the behaviour of i++ in C. The question itself was naïvely stated (and obviously by a beginner) but there was an awesome answer. ... Which clearly went above and beyond OP's understanding 😀 Trying desperately to locate it, as I think it's an example of what you are referring to.
    – Jongware
    Apr 22, 2018 at 17:16
  • So after reading @Makoto's answer, maybe it is about beginners, fledgling experts and experts? Doesn't everyone need to go through an in-between stage to become an expert, where they question the norms and need to evaluate the exceptions? "Don't do that" is perfectly appropriate for the beginner, but not terribly helpful for someone trying to expand past that stage. And I'm hard pressed to to think of an example that can't be described (dismissed?) as the xy-problem. Apr 22, 2018 at 18:45
  • This goes into the direction of this, this and this
    – BDL
    Apr 22, 2018 at 18:50
  • @BDL - that is very much not my intent Apr 22, 2018 at 20:34
  • The downvotes to your Git question weren't legitimate -- they were cast by sockpuppets. Once that was found out, the downvotes were nullified. See this question for more on the incident.
    – duplode
    Apr 23, 2018 at 1:16
  • @duplode Major thanks for taking the time to point out the additional information on the -6 downvotes. Apr 23, 2018 at 12:16

1 Answer 1

6

The problem is that you don't really know if you're asking about an exceptional and still valid use case until you've compared the end results. That is to say, you won't really understand if you needed the square wheels until you've taken a close look at your track.

In the examples you show us, I don't feel confident that you've looked closely at your track.

Looking at your newest question, I'd argue that there's no real exception to be had here; this reads more like an XY problem (and I'll happily elaborate in an answer on that question later). At a glance, you're trying to ham-fist a build process manually with scripts when such tooling exists and is freely available.

As for your older question, it's known in Python that __del__ isn't guaranteed to be called, yet you want to instill a guarantee. Again, reads more like an XY problem in that you want to fit a square peg into a round hole.


To this point:

As a question asker, it would be fantastic to leverage the experts on SO to help me understand the implications of going down an exception path.

This is a natural occurrence of someone asking about something orthodox, yet entirely plausible. Is it unorthodox for someone to be using Java 1.3 in this day in age? You betcha. Is it plausible for someone to do so? Sure, and spare a thought for those poor souls. In the linked question, we observe that this track actually does require the square wheels, so it's fair to work within those constraints.

The above is why I feel an identifier of any kind to indicate that a question is somehow "exceptional" is unnecessary. We get very few fantastic questions here, and the ones that do pique are interest can often be exceptional anyway. But that doesn't mean that we require any sort of special identifier or moniker to indicate that questions are somehow "outside of the norm". To me, they're just questions. What makes them truly special are the answers.

4
  • 1
    I find myself struggling to reply, as I have both meta and non-meta reactions Apr 22, 2018 at 20:24
  • On the non-meta (personal) side. In your Java 1.2 example, instead of asking for clarification, you answered what was asked (with proper warnings). What would that happened if you instead asked "Why don't you update to a current version. It is free" and didn't answer until you got a response that you accepted? Or, rather, how should I have asked my two examples so you made the same assumption (validity) in my case? Suggestions welcome. Context can be difficult and could be proprietary. It also focuses any discussion on whether the context is a valid use-case or not. Apr 22, 2018 at 20:29
  • On the meta side: As a good SO citizen, I understand your desire to prevent someone going down a dangerous path. I'm wondering if having a standard, clear way of expressing "this is possible, but should only be needed in rare cases. Buyer Beware!" would make it easier to provide answers that apply to all skill levels, without feeling a need to make sure the answerer isn't causing harm. I've edited my question to try to clarify I think a tag or indication for answers (or parts of answers) is really my discussion point. Such a thing could have been used in your Java example. Apr 22, 2018 at 20:31
  • @BrettStottlemyer: To your first point, I've asked that question on many occasions of askers. The usual answer is that they have to fulfill this constraint. If I want to disengage with them, I usually do it there and then. To your second point: answers have never been and likely never will be taggable. Typically people come here searching about problems, not about solutions.
    – Makoto
    Apr 22, 2018 at 23:18

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .