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This is the second time this has happened over the last week. I reviewed this answer where the submitter admitted his posting is not an answer, and I voted to delete it for that reason. It now has four votes for deletion, but I am not allowed to do any more reviews, because I reviewed it "incorrectly". Why is that?

You reviewed https://stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/19453235 incorrectly. Please pay more attention to each review in the future.

Come back in 4 days to continue reviewing.

9
  • Can you post the exact text? At the moment, it's not clear if it's a system ban (after an audit) or a manual ban by a moderator.
    – Glorfindel
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 10:54
  • 4
    @Glorfindel the link does not look like an audit review...
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 10:55
  • 3
    Yeah, that's why I suspect it's a manual ban.
    – Glorfindel
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 10:55
  • Hmmm... Even 4 said to delete, It has 3 upvotes and 0 downvotes... Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 10:57
  • Also, the answer is not near deletion. It is upvoted answer. So even if it comes out of VLQ with all recommended deletion, it wont be actually deleted.
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 10:57
  • 7
    The "recommend deletion" outcome gets passed to a moderator. Which most likely rejected the recommendation. Notable about this Q+A is that none of the posts answer the question. This is the only one where the poster admitted that it doesn't answer it. And presented a "good practice", right now the most helpful answer. But yeah, it was easy to review and the reviewers probably did not look at those other posts. The last edit to the post is highly questionable. Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 10:59
  • Strange, this review is not listed in your review history at all?
    – BDL
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 11:11
  • 7
    slight imperfections in your behavior will not be tolerated here Commented Apr 19, 2018 at 2:51
  • @RobertCrovella lol
    – AndrewL64
    Commented Apr 19, 2018 at 17:03

3 Answers 3

12

The topic of when to flag answers as 'not an answer' has been hashed out time and time again.

That last link directly applies here.

Now - the confusion here - is due to the author self-proclaiming that it "doesn't really answer the question". Unsurprisingly, this comment is likely what prompted reviewers to cast their (recommend) delete votes.

An incorrect answer is not a valid reason to handle or cast an NAA flag. Moderators even have a standard decline reason for flags: "flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer".

I issued review bans here, as I felt it necessary to notify the reviewers that they're doing it wrong. I probably should have included a link to Undo's fantastic post in the ban message... but unfortunately, I didn't. Incorrectly reviewing this type of content is sending the wrong message to the flaggers themselves - causing more people to misunderstand how and when to properly flag answers.

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  • 17
    But it isn't an incorrect answer. It doesn't answer the question at all. That the poster said it didn't answer the question was my first heads up only. It was my determination that he was right.
    – Rob
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 12:12
  • 5
    @Rob This falls under the "altogether wrong answer" category, in my eyes.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 12:44
  • 57
    Which @Rob is ping which @Rob? Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 12:52
  • 11
    Rob arguing with Rob... this is too Rory for me...
    – Braiam
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 21:04
  • 16
    I feel like the VLQ flag and the low quality posts queue is setting people up for failure. Shog's post is specifically about the NAA flag. The verbiage for the VLQ flag clearly implies that it's for answers that are lousy as opposed to non-answers. It's the mods that have decided to set the bar for VLQ so high that it's essentially the same as NAA.
    – Kenster
    Commented Apr 17, 2018 at 22:28
  • 4
    @Kenster I've always wished for a "I'm voting to close this question/answer cause it's too stupid." I agree there is too much confusion over this and punishing a 9-year, relatively high-rep user trying to help weed out an obviously bad answer is not the solution.
    – Rob
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 11:31
  • 5
    @Rob ♦ - could you please explain the reason for keeping that answer? What benefits it brings to the site? Wouldn't it have just been better to delete the question completely? I can ask a new question if you feel this is too broad for a comment Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 11:40
  • 9
    I see you are only recently elected. Consider discussing this case in TL with more experienced colleagues because this approach looks fairly unusual and there is a risk that you will have trouble applying it consistently for the matters of scale
    – gnat
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 11:44
  • 3
    To comment-reply Rob, please upvote this feature request: How to reply to one user among two having same names?
    – Cœur
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 12:12
  • 3
    @CamiloTerevinto Whether or not the answer should stay on the site is a completely different issue here. This is regarding the flagging/review system in particular. The correct course of action for the answer is commenting (which was done), and downvoting.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 12:22
  • 10
    the problem I see here is not so much about reviewers doing it wrong or right but mod action (review suspension) used to notify them. If you want to consistently use this approach I can prepare a list of several hundreds / thousands LQ and Triage reviews where you would want to act like that. As I said, you better keep in mind matters of scale when taking actions
    – gnat
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 12:35
  • 2
    Undo's post says "Low quality answers. ... We should only be deleting these kinds of answer when they're really bad — as in "no edit can ever fix this" kind of bad. An answer that is incoherent and by the answerer's own admission irrelevant to the question asked seems to me to very clearly meet that criterion. We have sometimes, inconsistently received guidance that we should only flag things that can be definitively seen to be non-answers without even knowing what the question is, but Undo's answer contradicts that guidance, and so linking it in this case makes little sense.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 15:09
  • 4
    "This falls under the "altogether wrong answer" category, in my eyes." -- Why? If it attempts to answer something other than what the question asked, then it shouldn't matter even if it's high quality, it shouldn't be treated as an answer, and I thought this was well-established from the very links that you provide. Following your logic, as I understand it, I can post a detailed analysis of why the moon landing was not fake, and there is no rule whatsoever that allows that to be deleted. That seems undesirable.
    – user743382
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 15:10
  • 3
    @TylerH Then I guess I don't understand how the apple analogy from the linked answer is supposed to work, because that's exactly what I thought the orange fruit was supposed to represent: it may be good, tasty, desirable, but only when someone actually wants it. When someone wants an apple, give them an apple. Regardless, from the commentary in meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/286396/… you seem to be right, and if this is causing review bans, that proposal may become more worthwhile.
    – user743382
    Commented Apr 18, 2018 at 15:24
  • 2
    It's obvious that something which has been hashed out time and time again over many years over confusion by moderators and users alike that there is a problem and one would think one would at least go to the English stackexchange and try and find someone who can add clarity. I don't know what other pressing matter than understanding is at the forefront but I am betting it isn't anything more pressing.
    – Rob
    Commented Apr 19, 2018 at 3:17
7

Taking the time to read the question and answer in more detail: I'm not opposed to the result, but I was not convinced by Rob ♦'s explanation, so let me post my own.

The question can be simplified to

Should I do A, or B?

The answer can be simplified to

Personally, I do C instead.

Now, this should be taken as an answer to the question. Not just an answer to some other hypothetical question, it should be taken as an answer to the actual question that was asked. It was not very high quality yet in that form, but could easily be improved through editing. I don't think there's much disagreement on this site that

Neither, you should do C instead.

qualifies as an answer, but the main information in that is the same, so that's an improvement that could have been made without any involvement from the OP.

Depending on how obvious C is, this may or may not require an explanation to become a high-quality answer. Had the OP not already been chased off the site by the comments (very much not OK), a simple request could easily have made that happen.

3
  • 2
    This answer is C. The question is about whether someone deserved a review ban. This answer answers some other question.
    – matt
    Commented Apr 19, 2018 at 12:54
  • 6
    @matt Whether someone deserved a review ban is inherently linked to whether that someone was reviewing correctly, which in turn is linked to whether the reviewed post should have been deleted. I'm saying that no, the reviewed post shouldn't have been deleted. I could add "therefore, I do not think you were correct in your review, and I do not disagree with the review ban", but I thought that was implied clearly enough already.
    – user743382
    Commented Apr 19, 2018 at 13:19
  • This is a much more convincing response than the other answer. Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 6:48
6

Something has gone terribly wrong with SO when we review-ban people for deleting trash from the site.

I can't really tell if the question is valid or asking for opinions, since I don't know the topic. The discussed answer is however clearly just someone's opinion, provided without any arguments or explanation. As such it holds no value to preserve.

And that's it. If someone casts a delete vote on this answer, it is a good thing. If they somehow do it while stating the wrong reason, who cares. As long as the crap is removed from the site.

The purpose of this site is to produce quality programming-related Q&A.

It is not to create a searchable database of incorrect, down-voted answers.

But as soon as the meta inquisition unexpectedly rushes in, the purpose of the site is soon forgotten. Before you know it, there's a huge debate: is the crap post is really an answer, does it attempt to answer the question even if horribly, what was the intention of the poster, did they really use the right flag. Blah blah blah. Various meta lawyers offer their insight from ivory towers. The inner meaning of various flags and policies are dissected.

Suddenly the purpose of the original post is no longer programming-related, high quality Q&A. Instead it starts to exist only to sate meta policies. It must be preserved for the sake of meta. The fact that the post holds no technical value doesn't matter any longer.

If the moderators have nothing better to do than review-banning people for deleting trash, then clearly something has gone terribly wrong with how the site is moderated.

8
  • 1
    FWIW, I posted my answer because I think the answer actually has merit, so naturally I disagree with the characterisations as "trash" and "crap", and although I agree with the rest of your logic, a different premise leads to a different conclusion.
    – user743382
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 8:18
  • 2
    @hvd How exactly does an answer without any explanation, arguments or sources, but one single personal opinion have merit?
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 10:48
  • 1
    The question asks for a choice, describing the drawbacks of both options. When an answer presents a third option which has neither of the drawbacks, the answer is almost self-explanatory. Yes, the answer should have mentioned this, it was easy to miss, but that's something that could have been fixed by editing.
    – user743382
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 10:55
  • 2
    @hvd No. The main question is "I'm wondering which is more important for load time: to have a small CSS size or a smaller page loaded size?". And then someone gave a code-only answer: <div class="con"> <div>...</div> <div>...</div> <div>...</div> </div> ....
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 10:58
  • 1
    A code-only answer which attempts to have a small CSS size and a small page size.
    – user743382
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 11:00
  • 1
    I've been complaining about moderation here for a few years. You can now find users with reps in the hundreds of thousands who answer questions that are clearly off topic, such as recommending software. I'm aware of three high rep users who got their values by riding on the back of off topic and duplicate questions. But pointing it out only brings push back from moderators and other high rep users.
    – Rob
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 11:37
  • 2
    @Rob I don't see what that has to do with this topic...? Neither the question nor the deleted answer doesn't look like an attempt to hunt rep.
    – Lundin
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 11:52
  • 1
    I'm responding to your first sentence. In fact, your whole post.
    – Rob
    Commented Apr 20, 2018 at 11:53

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