36

I live in a country where a senior averages $60k per year at best, probably much less.

My cousin, a software engineer and co founder of a big company visited me yesterday. I told him that although I just moved to a new job, I'm going to try to apply for a remote job from this site because the income is much higher.

He argued that those high incomes are for Americans because the cost of living is high there, so either they only want certain countries or they will offer me a much lower income.

We spent the night arguing, I told him that the advertised income is fixed and it's unprofessional to accept certain countries only or to lower the advertised income if you know that the cost of living is cheap.

So, my questions are:

  • SO knows my country, when I type remote, can I apply to all the jobs I see or are they only for Americans and few other countries?
  • Do companies lower their salaries for candidates where the cost of living is cheaper?
14
  • Companies can define the salary however they like, indeed, but I would certainly hope they can't adjust the salary depending on the person they accept. That would be contrary to any and every principle of inclusion SE network says to follow, and I'd hope they would ban such a company forever. Commented Apr 8, 2018 at 20:12
  • its much less than 60k$ lol, if you get paid 60k$ here there is no need to leave then :p Commented Apr 8, 2018 at 21:00
  • 9
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier - every time I have ever interviewed for a role, salary is entirely negotiable and adjusted per person
    – Rory Alsop
    Commented Apr 8, 2018 at 21:29
  • 1
    @PeterHaddad i know many who get paid 60k and the point is if you can work remotely for the same advertised salary, then it's really pointless to work for any local company, because they will never be able to match the cheapest junior remote salary
    – Lynob
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 9:25
  • yes Im mostly talking about local companies Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 9:47
  • I wonder if the premise of the question is questionable. If two people both get the same salary for the same labour, and one lives in a country where the living costs are half of the other person, then effectively one is getting paid more than the other for the same work (since they have a significantly higher disposable income). That doesn't seem fair either.
    – halfer
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 13:13
  • @halfer the applicant can reallocate to save costs, you cannot say you're going to pay 50k and then when you see a good applicant from Zimbabwe, change the offer to 100$ or whatever. I understand that some offers are too high very low evaluation isn't fair either
    – Lynob
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 13:20
  • @Lynob: I hear you, yes - there's a danger of a "race to the bottom" too, which plays one worker off against another. I'm not a capitalist, and I won't defend its contradictions, but it's still interesting to examine what "fair pay" means within its constraints.
    – halfer
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 13:39
  • "The applicant can [relocate] to save costs" - sure, but most people given the choice, would rather not do so. In general, relocation takes people away from their extended families and communities, and it would be better if there were no financial advantage for folks to do so.
    – halfer
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 13:47
  • compared to how much we get paid here locally, I would accept any salary abroad as its gonna be much more than here lol Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 13:56
  • The salary you will get is only very loosely correlated with what is advertised. It depends on many factors, including nationality (all kind of work law, tax and benefits related things to consider with the salary as well as language skills, travel expenses and education)
    – eckes
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 18:40
  • Even a US worker that is employed by an American company and decided to move abroad is very tricky for a company: shrm.org/resourcesandtools/hr-topics/global-hr/pages/…
    – Jay
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 22:06
  • Assuming that the job was advertised as one you can perform remotely, and that your current location was among the ones they will accept (I don't know at what granularity they can control this; I certainly see job ads for American companies in Europe) then simple "truth in advertising" would I think compel them to pay what they offered in the ad.
    – tripleee
    Commented Apr 11, 2018 at 5:41
  • Anecdotal evidence from personal experience: as a Latin American developer (living and working in Latin America and working remote for American companies), it's quite common to perceive a salary similar to those of the local market. Maybe slightly above the average but not too much more.
    – alezvic
    Commented Apr 11, 2018 at 18:40

4 Answers 4

5

Do companies lower their salaries for candidates where the cost of living is cheaper?

Yes. Stack Overflow themselves is one example:

17

SO knows my country, when I type remote, can I apply to all the jobs I see or are they only for Americans and few other countries?

Employers can select the countries to advertise their job listing in. If the country you're in (based on your IP address) doesn't match one of those advertised countries, you won't see the job listing in search results on Stack Overflow Jobs.

If there's a country you're willing to relocate to, you can specify it in your job preferences, and you'll be able to see/apply to jobs in that country.

8
  • 1
    I believe part of OP's question is about the possibility, or not, of a company to adjust the offered salary based on [insert whatever detail about the candidate here]. Such discrimination would be highly unprofessional and disturbing, I hoped you could expand on SO Job's viewpoint about that. Commented Apr 8, 2018 at 20:13
  • 15
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier Such discrimination would be highly unprofessional and disturbing, not sure that's entirely true when it comes to location. Companies frequently have to pay extra to workers living in very expensive cities (think SF, NY or London) which is a form of discrimination by location.
    – Pekka
    Commented Apr 8, 2018 at 21:11
  • 3
    Stack Overflow, Inc. also compensates differently based on location: stackoverflow.com/jobs/salary
    – Pekka
    Commented Apr 8, 2018 at 21:17
  • 9
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier All salaries are something that is negotiated between the company and individual. That salaries are different based on the location where the person is located, is a normal fact of life. If a company is OK with having a position filled by anyone anywhere in the world, then they will choose to lower what they pay in order to pay the minimum needed to hire someone they think will fill the need. The reality is that people in locations with a lower cost of living are willing to do the same work for lower total pay, which may mean they net more, less, or the same amount.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 0:36
  • 3
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier I really don't see where you're getting the idea that offering a different salary based on what the company thinks will be accepted is "unprofessional and disturbing". Where the employee lives (particularly which other country they live in (vs. where the company is located)) isn't a protected class (in any jurisdiction I'm aware of). I'm not sure why it should be a protected class. Perhaps what your expressing is that you feel that the issue is that the company might offer a salary that is outside the range which it advertised, and thus feel that it's false advertising?
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 0:42
  • 1
    There seems to be a slide towards something I am not meaning, steming from @Pekka웃's point about salaries per city. I appreciate the higher salary in higher priced cities, there seem to be a few exceptions that present that feature (exception in the sense that it's not the vast majority of cities that actually are that expensive to live in). Hence, apart from the exception of companies that offer a higher salary in that manner, changing a salary for a job in a "regular" city based on the provenance of the employee is disturbing. Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 1:11
  • 8
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier changing a salary for a job in a "regular" city based on the provenance of the employee is disturbing. but that's not what we're talking about here, no? No one is advocating paying someone living in, say, Toronto less money because they're from, say, Guinea-Bissau. It's about paying someone (who could be native or a Torontoan!) less because they live in Guinea-Bissau where the cost of living is a lot lower than in Canada. Why should companies that employ remotely not be allowed to benefit from that difference (ideally, of course, splitting it with the employee)?
    – Pekka
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 7:53
  • @Pekka Cost of living is not comparable. Same country or similar countries, perhaps; but it escapes from reality especially comparing countries with heavier taxes, and unfavorable dollar exchange rates. It does not include A LOT of variables, like purchasing power. How much time can it take for that Canadian salary to pay for a car, and the "adjusted" salary buy exactly the same car in Guinea-Bissau? And similar apartments, the full price paid after mortgages from 20 years now? Never saw either these COL take in account, how much of each salary it takes to buy the same flight ticket. Commented Feb 18, 2020 at 21:25
11

We spent the night arguing, I told him that the advertised income is fixed and it's unprofessional to accept certain countries only or to lower the advertised income if you know that the cost of living is cheap.

There is nothing wrong with restricting an employment opportunity to certain countries. Different countries will have different time zones, culture, and language. All of these criteria make it easier or harder for a potential employee to fit (lack of time zone overlap, and language/accent barriers in particular are difficult).

As to salary, changing it just based on location doesn't happen because location comes with all the baggage from above. An American developer may get a higher salary for any of the following reasons (among others):

  1. Better mastery of English
  2. More time zone overlap
  3. Better education/experience (overseas devs have a bad reputation for quality)
  4. Won't accept a lower salary due to cost of living (like it or not, you are occasionally competing with people who will take less). Some companies like SO try to negate this by offering higher salaries to people in expensive cities

So is it unprofessional for a company to offer lower, I would argue that it is not based on their perceived value of the employee. You as the applicant can always say no. You can also always negotiate. If you think you are worth more you should say so. When I got my current job, negotiating got me a significantly better offer.

4
  • On top of this, even if it's a remote location, iirc they still have to sponsor a work VISA in case of trips/etc. Plus international taxes/benefits would be SUPER wonky.
    – biggi_
    Commented Apr 9, 2018 at 17:40
  • pretty sure you're missing a comma on that last sentence.
    – hanshenrik
    Commented Apr 11, 2018 at 21:26
  • @hanshenrik: of course, it was meant to be "When I got my current job negotiating, got me a significantly better offer". Got me some grammar :=p
    – halfer
    Commented Apr 11, 2018 at 21:44
  • @hanshenrik my bad; comma added :) Commented Apr 12, 2018 at 14:14
4

Good companies, when looking for people, look to keep people and that includes paying above local market rate. As we're not yet in a full BitCoin economy that also means that this company has to have a legal entity in the country you're residing in, so they can pay you according to local rules and regulations (read: taxes, healthcare, pension fund, ...)

So your cousin is correct: to get a remote salary higher than the country you currently live in, you'd have to move to the country where the job is advertised and have an address, bank, pension fund, ... and pay taxes over there.

Most countries have rules that you have to be a resident for >6 months to keep your resident's permit so the best you could do is: Move, stay in the new country for a year and then move back for 6 months-1 day to your home country and 6 months+1 day in the country you actually have to work in and rinse and repeat. Beware that you'd probably have to pay extra "travel" insurance or pay all healthcare out of your own pocket when you're "travelling" in your home country.

1
  • 1
    @halfer Thanks for the edit. :-) (I sometimes get carried away)
    – Fabby
    Commented Apr 11, 2018 at 21:06

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .