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2 years, 2 months (possibly 2 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 2 minutes and 2 seconds) ago I asked a question on Meta, when I chanced upon a user that was simply reformulating answers already provided, some time after they were posted. In the discussions following my question I remember talking with a high rep user, telling them something along these lines:

—Pick any technology I know nothing about and I bet you in less than 1 month I'll make more than 1k rep on it (on an anonymous user) using this technique alone.
—Do you know anyone doing this, did you notice it frequently?
—I don't do this kind of police work. It bothered me, enough to open two more answers from the same user, which were also copycat answers. Then I took some action, without opening the 4th. But I normally don't do this.

Apparently, nowadays, the need for SO rep got a tad higher as it's often times considered during job recruitment, so people are actively seeking ways to make rep. Not to help others, not to explain principles, not to make the web better.

They're interested in the mechanics of generating more SO rep with less effort. Copycat-ing answers is probably cost effective, and it's definitely spreading. With decent English, not much effort, perhaps a bit of humor (or at least relaxed attitude), sometimes one does a bit better than the original 1. If the copied user frowns about it, they delete the answer and mingle off. But most users don't.

Also, Stack Overflow kind of helps this practice by:

  • not making it more obvious which answer was first
  • not allowing users to flag answers as duplicate

I admit, I got used to it. 2 years ago I found it upsetting, even outrageous. Now it's so common I got to not care so much about it. I don't even bother downvoting them anymore. I rarely downvote them on other people's answers and I almost never downvote copies of my own answers anymore. I don't really know why, I know I should, but the end result is that I don't. I almost surprised myself finding this behavior acceptable coming from fresh users.

But, is it?


This question (from 1 year ago) focuses more on whether or not this is plagiarism. I frankly don't give a flying love what term we use. I personally call it "rep-fishing".

My question is: any ideas on decent methods to keep this in check, without affecting freedom to answer? Would you give (some?) users the possibility to decide whether or not an answer is a copycat (if it adds significant details or if it's just the same answer reworded)? If only some, to whom? Gold users on one of the question tags, any users above a rep threshold?

Note: Do note the practice is more common and can be easily observed on SO, particularily on busy tags (such as CSS or javascript) than on more specialized tags or smaller SE communities.

1: In reality, the vast majority do not put in the effort to improve the copied answers. They simply reword.

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  • 5
    @VDWWD I'm talking about duplicate answers under the same question. Has no direct connection with duplicate questions.
    – tao
    Mar 27, 2018 at 13:22
  • 1
    Someone trying to present a similar solution in a better way isn't really problematic. If they independantly arrived at a similar solution then it's just fine, if their work is a derived work of another user's answer they'd need to cite it, but could still have their own presentation. If they do a better job of presenting the solution, such that people get more out of their answer than the other answer, then it getting more upvotes is desirable. If it does a poorer job of presenting it, then the problem is with people upvoting an answer that isn't useful, not with the author.
    – Servy
    Mar 27, 2018 at 13:25
  • 3
    related at MSE: Vote to delete answers as duplicates of earlier answers "deleting duplicate answers serves essentially the same purpose as closing duplicate questions: it spares site visitors from the burden of looking in multiple places to find answers to their questions. That's certainly beneficial..."
    – gnat
    Mar 27, 2018 at 13:31
  • 1
    @AndreiGheorghiu How is it a digression? If people are posting better versions of answers, then that's a good thing, if people are posting worse versions of other answers, there is only a problem if people are upvoting an answer that isn't helpful, and even then, the problem is with the voter, not the answer author.
    – Servy
    Mar 27, 2018 at 13:38
  • 4
    @Servy, take this question, for example. When second answer was added my answer already had +5. Wasn't yet accepted. He made 10 rep with almost 0 effort. And how easy is it for you to tell which one was first, 14 hours later? You need to hover both and calculate the time difference. Users get rewarded for a (mildly) detrimental action. And it works. This is my point. :)
    – tao
    Mar 27, 2018 at 13:48
  • 3
    @AndreiGheorghiu You think it's detrimental. It would seem that another person though it was a better presentation of the solution than your answer. If that's indeed the case, the answer is rewarded for a beneficial action. How much effort it takes to make an answer is irrelevant. What matters is how useful it is. The fact that Jon Skeet can write an amazing answer to a question in 60 seconds that someone else spends 2 hours meticulously experimenting with in order to arrive at a worse solution doesn't make Jon's answer less worthy of rep than the other user's.
    – Servy
    Mar 27, 2018 at 13:52
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    This buys into the notion that it is all a race to the bottom. That the rep gained by a copycat somehow takes away your reputability. Not the way it works at all, just make sure that your own contributions are something you proud of and don't mind being scrutinized by your peers and possibly employers and everything takes care of itself. Copycats quickly get bored, can't ever show original thought, quit when it gets a drag. Mar 27, 2018 at 14:04
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    @HansPassant, call me idealist, but when I see something that's not right, I try to think about a possible fix. As Stack Overflow user, I typically answer worthy unanswered questions (~1 hour old, which is a lot in CSS tag), so the above is an exception from this POV. But here I'm concerned about users adding noise to SO for reputation. Not to help, to question, to learn or to teach. It's not a big problem, I admit, but it's impossible for me to consider it anything but a problem. Copycats do get bored, but there are always new ones, because the system allows it. For me, this is more about principles.
    – tao
    Mar 27, 2018 at 14:19
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    using rep/gold badges for this kind of thing is a double edged sword. Often those who would be likely to abuse things like this successfully are users who are farming rep who also are likely to already have some amount of rep built up. Having a badge that is a directly correlated to rep or being above a rep threshold would potentially give these users tools that make it even easier for them to succeed. Assuming this is as widespread as you seem to be insinuating. (I personally might see one instance of this every few months)
    – Kevin B
    Mar 27, 2018 at 15:33
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    I like the idea. Currently it's sort of a lost cause, but I aggressively down-vote, comment, and flag duplicate answers as NAA (provided the original answer is sufficiently older and it really is a duplicate). Mar 27, 2018 at 15:57
  • 4
    @cpburnz I sympathize but you probably risk bumping into flag-suspension with NAAs like that. Consider checking your flag summary page for how many of these flags end up disputed or declined (voting down and commenting possibly increases your chances to get these flags resolved to helpful due to deletions by scared authors)
    – gnat
    Mar 27, 2018 at 16:06
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    @Chris_Rands Significant time difference between answers with the new answer not saying anything new/different from the older answer. Having the same explanation but below the code instead of above it, creating a code-only answer with the exact same code from the only other answer that was posted a year ago, bad copy/paste jobs that lose the formatting, that sort of thing.
    – BSMP
    Mar 27, 2018 at 17:51
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    I think you're painting with too broad of a brush here. Yes, there are people who abuse the system. But not every, not even most, or many, of what you seem to consider "duplicate" answers are copy-cat answers as you describe them. Instead they're easy answers to easy questions that likely should have been closed for one reason or another.
    – Kevin B
    Mar 27, 2018 at 18:01
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    "as it's often times considered during job recruitment" - does that actually happen? Mar 27, 2018 at 21:16
  • 2
    That's a very real problem worth caring about, and you can call it anything you want as long as you don't call it plagiarism.
    – BoltClock
    Mar 28, 2018 at 1:20

5 Answers 5

3

I'm of the opinion the core purpose of the site is to help viewers, so that's the gold standard to use:

What harm does this cause to future viewers?

They have to read two similar answers? I don't see any significant loss.

What harm does this cause to answerers?

Potentially lost rep from another answer being deemed better than theirs? If the answer is better, it deserves to win out. If not, it likely won't. And given voting is not a zero-sum game, it's only assumed that whoever upvoted them didn't also upvote you.

What harm would implementing copycat controls potentially cause?

This depends on how it is addressed:

  • Marking it as a duplicate is relatively low harm
  • Deletion is potentially high harm: if they've added new, useful information that information is now lost.

How do you prove copying/who came first?

SO allows a 5 minute grace period to modify answers where the modification time is not changed.

I have written answers where I include why the previous answer was incorrect, only to have it edited to be essentially a copy of my answer... except it's posting time is still two minutes before I posted. To the average user there is no way to tell that they used the grace period to snipe my answer. (I don't know whether mod tools show edits made during the grace period)

But there wasn't substantial harm done to me. I was rather cross, but I just edited my answer to make it substantially better and it won out on merit.

What constitutes copycatting?

The definition you've used seems very narrow: only people who copy an answer without adding additional information. Any information added would invalidate the claim of copycatting.

tl;dr: No, I don't think we need any new standards

Ultimately, I don't see a huge issue with copycat answers. Do they come up? Sure, but there isn't an epidemic and the actual harm is very low.

1
  • I believe the more this will remain unaddressed, the bigger an issue it will become. You seem to be active on tags reserved to more "serious" coders, which probably suffer less from this than the "frontend" tags. In principle, I agree with you. I wouldn't remove the duplicates. Yet, marking them as such and leaving them there, eventually as an alternative (tab?) to the original might a) be beneficial to viewers; b) limit the practice. Given enough votes, I'd also set a threshold for invalidating the rep gained by duplicate answers, but that might be too much.
    – tao
    Mar 28, 2018 at 1:51
0

When users blatantly copy-paste (and sometimes even link to the original answer), I:

  • Mod-flag with something like "The user copy-pasted another answer and linked to it, [link]"
  • Leave a comment in the answer explaining that duplicate questions should be flagged as such

It would be far better if I could just:

  • Flag > duplicate of > (select)

Just as I can with questions.

1
  • I don't think duplicate answers are enough of a problem to draw special attention via a dedicated flag. We already get too many bad NAA flags as well as complaints of invalid duplicate question targets.
    – ryanyuyu
    Mar 28, 2018 at 18:47
-3

For new users: I comment, link the other answer, ask how theirs is different, and perhaps give some tips on how to answer helpfully.

For existing users: I downvote or complain in a comment with a link to the old question. Then, sometimes I return in the future and do the other (complain or downvote). After a few bouts with angry people, I don't leave correlation between DVs and comments.

(Except when answers are posted within an hour of each other, and I give them the benefit of the FGITW doubt.)

For obvious literal plagiarism: I flag it.


I used to flag all of them (but less often) until I saw Meta discussions saying not to. When I reach the close-vote privilege, I may do that, too.

Frankly, copycat answers still annoy me, and I also wish there was something better.

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  • Yes, I've done the same: asked new users what new information theirs – the 10th (or 15th, or 20th) answer to a well-answered question – added. In a few cases they chose to delete it. But in the case of new users, it's entirely possible they acted in good faith, though.
    – Jongware
    Mar 28, 2018 at 17:43
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One possible approach:

  • Provide a "flag as possible copycat answer" button. This would be available to the OP of a given page, to the authors of existing answers on that page, and to any user above a certain reputation threshold.

  • Initially the flag would be visible only to the person who flagged it. Therefore, in the beginning, it won't affect anybody else's experience of any given, single question & answer page.

  • However, it would start to kick in when the majority of a given user's reputation, above a certain absolute threshold, comes from flagged answers. Then you start to impose sanctions: start displaying a warning to that user when they post answers; maybe start making that user's flags visible to other users; maybe discount the reputation earned; maybe at some point ban them.

  • Guard against serial flagging in the same way as one guards against serial downvoting (sanctions have to come via a consensus, not as a result of one user's vendetta against another).

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    Your first point is inherently flawed. Adding any additional rights to people who answered the question has the potential to be abused: adding bogus answers simply to get the said right. In order to get rights in this community you need to add value. The whole point I'm making here is that it's possible to get rights without ever adding any value.
    – tao
    Mar 27, 2018 at 22:41
  • @AndreiGheorghiu Possibly. Maybe answerer status alone shouldn’t confer it (maybe rep would have to be high enough in addition). Then again, maybe the invisibility of single votes and the requirement for consensus (bullet points subsequent to the first) would dilute the power of this right to such an extent that abusing it would confer no advantage in practice. My instinct is that that would be the case, but it’s an empirical question.
    – jez
    Mar 27, 2018 at 22:59
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Some answers do elaborate, or expand upon answers that may have preceded them.

If you cannot guarantee that such answers will not be punished, there need not be any significant changes to how Stack OverFlow's answer hierarchy currently works for this particular subject.

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    In my experience from the LQPQ most duplicate answers do not elaborate or expand upon any of the previous answers. They just poorly repeat the existing answers posted years earlier. Mar 27, 2018 at 15:52
  • @cpburnz True, but the OP is talking about answers that do "a bit better" than the original. I don't think they're talking about answers that weakly re-word or simply strip away existing explanation from old preexisting answers.
    – BSMP
    Mar 27, 2018 at 16:21
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    @BSMP, that was not my intention. I said "sometimes one does a bit better" but, in reality, they don't put in the extra effort. This is not about improving existing answers and that's a different talk. I'll change it, as it's misleading.
    – tao
    Mar 27, 2018 at 16:51
  • For very late "answers that do "a bit better" than the original" - these should be edits rather than separate posts, no? I suggest someone edit in the marginal improvement into original answer (with associated reason), and flag the duplicate. Owners of the original post are naturally incentivized to do this.
    – jpp
    Mar 27, 2018 at 17:51
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    @jpp no... not if it adds to the answer. What if the addition is wrong or problematic?
    – Kevin B
    Mar 27, 2018 at 17:58
  • @KevinB, well that's a given. The assumption is that it is better - for example, a function is due to be decommission / renamed in a future release, or something obvious.
    – jpp
    Mar 27, 2018 at 18:00
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    obvious... to whom. the editor that might be wrong? you're putting words in the mouth of the original answerer.
    – Kevin B
    Mar 27, 2018 at 18:02
  • Obvious to the original answerer, obviously :). Sorry if that wasn't clear. I just think nobody is incentivized to stop this happening apart from the original answerer. You might get one or two altruistic contributors, but on a wider scale people look after their own posts.
    – jpp
    Mar 27, 2018 at 18:16
  • @jpp I don't know about you, but I don't regularly look through every single one of my old posts to make sure that someone hasn't edited them to say something inaccurate, or that I don't feel is an appropriate thing to include (or exclude, or change, or whatever) in an answer to the question.
    – Servy
    Mar 27, 2018 at 18:54
  • @Servy, in my experience such very late posters [ill-intentioned as they are] usually downvote other/accepted answers. In which case you find out pretty soon.
    – jpp
    Mar 27, 2018 at 19:00
  • @Servy, I get notified each time one of my answers gets tampered with, even if all they do is add a tag. It might be a SO notifications settings thing.
    – tao
    Mar 27, 2018 at 19:07
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    @AndreiGheorghiu Some edits have notifications, some don't. You've seen all of the edits to your posts that you did get notifications for. You haven't necessarily seen all of the edits to your post that didn't result in a notification. Also note that answers don't have tags, only questions do, but also that an edit to the tag list is very likely an edit you would want to review.
    – Servy
    Mar 27, 2018 at 19:08
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    "If you cannot guarantee that such answers will not be punished, there need not be any significant changes to how Stack OverFlow's answer hierarchy currently works for this particular subject.": I don't even understand that triple-negative sentence; Mar 27, 2018 at 19:21
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    @KevinB I think we can do it with only one negation: „We should change the system only if we can guarantee that well-intentioned answers are not punished.“ Mar 27, 2018 at 20:50
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    @Jean-François Fabre: Don't worry, even Weird Al has trouble with triple negatives sometimes.
    – BoltClock
    Mar 28, 2018 at 0:58

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