12

Seems I got the luck of the draw concerning bad audits this week:

https://stackoverflow.com/review/close/19046192

This is a review and I think I understood, why it was picked as a review: it has 5 close votes and was deleted as abandoned. One would assume it could be a good candidate for an audit.

What I don't understand is why it was closed in the first place. If you click on the edit history, the first version is too broad. However, it was edited into shape in the following 8 minutes and I would think it is a good post:

  • The user explains what he wants to achieve.
  • The user posts his code
  • The user posts his input data/testcases
  • The user posts the expected outcome.
  • The user posts the actual outcome.

That is a pretty well defined problem. Compared to others I see, I would say the user checked more boxes than the average with his edit.

Yet, almost an hour after his edit, this question was closed as too broad.

Why would the current version be closed as too broad?

And what do I do to get this removed from the audits?


As the question itself is deleted and not visible to everybody, this is the body of the question as presented in the review and as voted upon by at least the final close-vote:

How would I code a funtion in Python which utilizes two integer paramaters and outputs whether the second to last digit in both integers is the same? Here's what I've got so far:

def secondToLast(num1, num2):
    num1 = str(num1)
    num2 = str(num2)
    if num1[-2] == num2[-2]:
        return True
    return False
print("secondToLast:")
print(secondToLast(7, 101))
print(secondToLast(19, 31))
print(secondToLast(11, 661))

It should output True, False, False, but instead outputs nothing.

7
  • 3
    The question is deleted so meta reader with less than 10k can't see anything. Mar 8, 2018 at 14:35
  • 2
    if you are going to disagree with the flag of a concerned SO user then you must break out of the confines of the review page to see why he might have used the flag. At which point it is utterly impossible to fail the audit. Of all the words in the failed audit reminder, "Look" is most important. "Stop" typically doesn't hurt either, reviewing has a strong knack for turning users in zombie clickers. Just always assume that a flag is correct, users don't use them for the hell of it. Mar 8, 2018 at 15:02
  • 8
    @HansPassant If I have to "break out" of it, what good is it then? If the context of the review is not good enough in general, where is the meta post that I can support on reworking that thing ASAP?
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:12
  • I don't get it, how is this different from what you always do when you look at your front page? If you have concrete ideas how to alter the review page then you can certainly propose them in a meta post. Tall order imo, could happen. Mar 8, 2018 at 15:17
  • I'm a bit confuse by the answer and comment on this question: Are question about "how to do X" of topics even if op has a income , outcome, code of him trying, missing the core of the algo with comment. Because from my reading of the comment if there is no problem 'bug, error', there is no question-> of topics. And if the MCVE do not match its off topics too. But there could not be an mcve of an "how to", because it will imply knowing "how to" . Mar 8, 2018 at 15:29
  • This understanding is only based on this meta question as the SO question deleted. So it might just be a miss understanding. But i do remember a 1 rep using bitching about his question beeing on topics. with this eact case. Op had everything except metas was asking him "what is the question?". When he clearly stated everything. Mar 8, 2018 at 15:32
  • @techraf That was an oversimplification. I corrected it.
    – nvoigt
    Mar 9, 2018 at 13:30

2 Answers 2

20

While it's not apparent from the final revision of the question, the OP actually commented (essentially) "never mind" as folks were helping them work out what clarification was needed:

Comment

So the timeline sort of looks like:

  1. Question posted with no code, the OP knows the problem they're having, but can't quite flesh it out and articulate it. People are able to kind of guess in comments and try to help.

  2. OP Posts code, keeps digging into it, more people kinda guess at what's going on in comments.

  3. OP has a light go on, figures out what the exercise was trying to get them to see, replies back to folks trying to help, no longer needs help.

At this point a variety of close reasons had started to pile on, ending effectively in the problem not really ever existing in the first place.

These are rare, so don't worry about encountering them. I would have clicked leave open, too, based on the final version of the question (though it would make me want to edit, since I immediately knew what the OP was trying to do and knew how to explain it better).

And yeah, based on criteria alone, it looked like a good audit. Plans for more efficient ejection of these corner cases (which seem to be creeping up more frequently as our collection of oddities grows) are going on the table shortly after we get Stack Overflow For Teams initially feature complete.

4
  • 4
    "Leave open", really? Not close for being ".. solved in a manner unlikely to help even one other person for the entirety of the future existence of the 'net"?
    – Jongware
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:45
  • 1
    Or of course if they had accurately described the problem with their question, seeing as it was an index out of range error, it'd have been a duplicate of one of thousands of questions. So there's a million ways to edit the question such that a different close reason applies, but nowhere in there is there a useful question that should remain open.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:54
  • 7
    @usr2564301 Might not be obvious if you hadn't seen the OP's comment as you scoped the post from review. It's blaring once you look at it after being closed and deleted, but that's not how it gets presented. Not the greatest question, but perfectly answerable. Honestly, if I was going to look for a reason to close it, it would be as a duplicate.
    – Tim Post
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:54
  • I cast the first "too broad" vote, but that's when the question had no code attached. After code has been attached, there was no way for me to convert as duplicate instead. That's why I more and more refrain from closing as too broad, so I can dupehammer if OP edits. Agreed: this should be a dupe. Mar 8, 2018 at 21:19
-1

Well the question doesn't accurately describe what the problem is with their code, as can be seen in the comments explaining that the code provide doesn't behave in the way it is described as behaving. There's a close reason specifically for that exact case.

So once the question was edited from having no code to having some code that doesn't replicate the problem described, the remaining close voters probably switched reasons, but didn't have enough of the latter reason to have a majority when it was finally closed.

18
  • 7
    What do you mean by "it says it doesn't work"? It says "It should output True, False, False, but instead outputs nothing." Assuming that that is the truth, what else should the OP have written to describe the problem?
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:35
  • 7
    3 Testcases, with expected outcome and actual outcome described is not exactly what I would define as "no explanation of the problem" either.
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:37
  • 2
    @nvoigt According to the comments it doesn't output nothing, so I guess I should have said that their code doesn't replicate their description of the problem.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:38
  • 1
    @nvoigt: Python would most certainly not output 'nothing' in this case. OP should have clarified that statement. (Personally, I might have asked before down/close-voting. For me, it seems to depend on whether the trains rode on time that day.)
    – Jongware
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:40
  • 1
    @Servy I can only look at the question and decide whether it looks good according to our guidelines. The user did check basically every box of how to ask with his edit. I have no crystal ball to tell whether what he describes as his problem is actually true. Maybe he has no output because his system if not configured correctly? How would I know. I can only tell that after the edit it's a reasonably good question.
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:49
  • 3
    @nvoigt There's a close reason specifically for the case that a question doesn't contain an example that reproduces the problem described. You can't just ignore that as a close reason and say that you don't care if the question doesn't provide a reproducible example and reopen every question closed for that reason anyway.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:51
  • 2
    But it does contain an MCVE. The fact that you can run it and tell me that it produces different results on your machine is the proof that it is an MCVE. Do you think that "but it works on my machine" is a close reason?
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:56
  • 1
    @nvoigt Do you know what the V in MCVE stands for? Do you think that, "but your code doesn't replicate the problem you've described" isn't a close reason? You realize that, "contains some code" isn't actually an MCVE, right, please tell me you know that?
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 14:58
  • 4
    To be honest, I think you are a troll. There is no post here I could open without you taking a rather absurd counter-position and arguing it until it gets surreal. I will open another meta post an what exactly is an MCVE and whether one should close-vote a post if executing said MCVE yields a different result on your own machine.
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:03
  • 1
    @nvoigt You think I'm a troll because I think that providing code that doesn't reproduce the problem isn't an MCVE? Go ahead and read the help center article on MCVE if you want to see a description of what it means. That you think, "questions asking about their code should provide a reproducible code example" is an absurd position, making me a troll, seems pretty absurd to me, to the point where I'm pretty tempted to call it trolling.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:14
  • 3
    No Servy, I think you are a troll because I encounter you on basically any question I ask here, always with a counter position and always with a position that is so absurd that I don't even know where to start arguing. The MCVE close reason is certainly not for people posting perfectly reproducible code, getting a different result than you get on your machine.
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:18
  • 3
    @nvoigt If you think that an MCVE shouldn't actually contain a verifiable code example, then you should start referring to it as MCE. If you think that code examples don't need to be verifiable, you should petition for the help center article on MCVE be changed to remove the V section of the page. You should also propose the removal of the close reason for a question asking about a code snippet that isn't reproducible. But until all that happens, calling someone a troll for saying that the close reason that exactly described the problem at hand shouldn't be used, is frankly, trolling.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:22
  • 1
    "Verifiable" means that you should be able to run it, I should be able to run it, and then we should be able to verify the result is either the expected result or not. Verifiable does not mean that the post needs to be closed if I run the code snippet on my machine and get a different result. The fact that it is different already proves the sample was verifiable. How else would I know that the result is different?
    – nvoigt
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:28
  • 3
    @nvoigt No, verifiable doesn't mean, "you can run the code". It mean that you can reproduce the problem described when you run the code. To quote from the MCVE page, "Ensure that the example actually reproduces the problem!", and also from the "complete" section, "Make sure all information necessary to reproduce the problem is included" Being able to reproduce the problem described is essential to an MCVE. In order to provide a code snippet that doesn't reproduce the problem would mean that literally any code snippet would be an MCVE, according to you.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:47
  • 2
    @nvoigt If you aren't able to reproduce the described problem when you run the code then it isn't an MCVE. If you find a code snippet that works when you run it, instead of producing the behavior that the question claims, then yes, you should be closing the question, because they haven't provided an example that reproduces the problem that they have. Of course, not every question needs to have an MCVE; some questions don't need to have a code snippet at all to be appropriate. Such a question wouldn't have an MCVE, but wouldn't need to be closed.
    – Servy
    Mar 8, 2018 at 15:54

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .