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Why do we have and ? Are they a good thing? To me these seem like they could be abused and feel meta.

Could this be a feature improvement to have the community nominate questions as a FAQ and there be some other distinction that its a FAQ.

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  • 7
    Every single tag already has an FAQ: stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/c%2b%2b?sort=frequent
    – Servy
    Feb 6, 2018 at 16:12
  • @Servy correct. i'm seeing that if people want questions to be known as a faq there should be a way to highlight it on the question itself. Feb 6, 2018 at 16:14
  • duplicate: Why do we have a c++-faq tag? - still no answer ...
    – rene
    Feb 6, 2018 at 16:14
  • 1
    @DanielA.White You can always include information in the tag wiki if you want and, of course tags like that already do.
    – Servy
    Feb 6, 2018 at 16:15
  • @Servy like people actually read those... Feb 6, 2018 at 16:16
  • 2
    @DanielA.White But you think they're going to read through a C++-faq tag?
    – Servy
    Feb 6, 2018 at 16:17
  • @Servy no. I’m saying there should be something other than a tag Feb 6, 2018 at 16:18
  • @DanielA.White To what end? What's the purpose?
    – Servy
    Feb 6, 2018 at 16:20
  • @Servy to fulfill the need these tags are providing Feb 6, 2018 at 16:21
  • 13
    What the faq we need them for?
    – Maroun
    Feb 6, 2018 at 16:24
  • 3
    @Servy I don’t know. Hence my question Feb 6, 2018 at 16:35
  • 1
    R had a [wtfaq] tag as well: Strange "r-wtfaq" tag Feb 7, 2018 at 5:58
  • 1
    I use the r-faq tag frequently to mark duplicates. It is quite useful to have a list of the most frequently asked questions. Feb 7, 2018 at 19:33
  • 1
    @RichScriven why not use the duplicate of editor? Feb 7, 2018 at 19:33
  • 1
    They're a product of the inefficient searching system for dupe targets. [r] wide long puts the very common wide-to-long dupe fourth, after a -1 question; [r-faq] wide long puts it in the top two, as it should be. Googling or going to another website (the tag info page; a github repo, etc.) is slower. I'm theoretically ok with faq tags going away, but only if search result relevance improves dramatically.
    – alistaire
    Feb 7, 2018 at 19:43

3 Answers 3

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exists as an organizing attempt to tag high-quality "duplicate target" Q&A.

It is actively maintained, it doesn't seem to be significantly abused.

If you go to the tag wiki for it, you'll see a longer explanation and the meta post where it was set up. There was some disagreement, but the top-voted post talked about good uses for it.

Yes, it could be abused and it is meta. Does it actually make the site better? At the least, it works great when I'm searching for duplicates to a common C++ concept.

Broader use would depend on the culture of each primary tag. If it causes abuse/division/problems, then it would be a bad idea.

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  • 7
    This doesn't really answer all of the question though, and if the c++-faq was the only topic I think it would have been marked as a duplicate already. The question from my point of view cites the c++-faq, but specifically asks if that pattern should be broadly used.
    – Travis J
    Feb 6, 2018 at 21:49
  • @TravisJ Did my edit address your concerns? Feb 9, 2018 at 16:10
  • Your edit certainly addresses the entire question, albeit briefly. If it depends on the culture of the tag, then what metrics should we use to measure the tag's culture?
    – Travis J
    Feb 9, 2018 at 19:24
  • @TravisJ I don't tell people to use metrics to measure a tag's culture. Feb 9, 2018 at 19:30
  • That's true, you didn't include metrics, but you did say "use would depend on the culture of each primary tag", which would kind of inherently mean that there are metrics involved in that determination, right? I was curious what metrics you had in mind when you said that.
    – Travis J
    Feb 9, 2018 at 19:52
  • @travis the second sentence in the paragraph. Feb 9, 2018 at 23:37
  • When I read that second sentence, it implies to me you advising that upfront there are no metrics, and this be done in all circumstances where it may be applicable, and only undone if it causes abuse/division/problems; is that a correct interpretation?
    – Travis J
    Feb 10, 2018 at 0:04
  • @TravisJ Sure. And before starting one, someone should in their best judgement think "would this work?" You can take a look at existing [-faq] and see if you already have posts *like that to tag, for example. Feb 10, 2018 at 1:12
2

They are indeed meta tags and as such they are generally frowned upon. They are not good, particularly since we are limited to 5 tags per question and means there's just 3 left for the actual question.

However, there's a long-standing agreement at least with the C++ community that goes something like: "Fine, you are allowed to keep your ugly meta tag, but only as long as you actively maintain and moderate it". Details and history here: Setting up a FAQ for the C++ tag

So far the C++ community has done a decent job at that and in case someone has reason to think otherwise, go poke the on-site Lounge<C++> chat.

I have no idea of the state of . It claims that it isn't the "official FAQ". If it isn't actively maintained, then I'd say go ahead and burn it. This should be decided by the community though, and not by generic users on meta.

Other communities like and have solved their need for a FAQ/canonical dupe link collection by creating one in the tag wiki instead, where it is less disruptive. I was the one pushing for the C FAQ back here and we discussed creating a FAQ tag for C as well. I summarized the community input in a post as:

Conclusion:

The community seems mostly positive towards creating a FAQ.

Regarding using a tag , the following notable concerns were raised:

  • It is a "meta tag" and should therefore be avoided.
  • The main benefit of using a tag - searchability, was not as strong an argument as anticipated.
  • Problems may arise if there are already 5 valid tags attached to the question.
  • The tag system does not allow categorization of questions.

We ended up placing the FAQ in the tag wiki. Which is not easily found but new users, but that's not really the intention either. The main purpose of this FAQ was always to provide a community pool of good canonical dupe links, for the purpose of dupe hammer moderation. So it's mainly useful for gold badgers, which are assumed to be SO veterans and know how to find a tag wiki.

Notably I've also tried to poke the company several times (like here) about implementing site support for a FAQ system, but so far to deaf ears. The "frequent" tab (nowadays deeply hidden) isn't it, because it sorts posts after how many times they were linked, as well as used as dupe targets, so it's impossible to find anything there mainly because it is lacking categorization.

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  • it looks like someone already burned them all. Jun 2, 2022 at 15:25
  • "So it's mainly useful for gold badgers, which are assumed to be SO veterans and know how to find a tag wiki." I can find sopython.com/canon, too; but it's rarely updated, too small, and inconvenient compared to... literally anything that would actually work within the context of the duplicate-closure dialog. Jun 2, 2022 at 19:18
  • @DanielA.White What are you talking about?
    – Lundin
    Jun 3, 2022 at 6:14
  • so it's impossible to find anything there mainly because it is lacking categorization.. Isn't the same true for [c-faq]?
    – TheMaster
    Oct 6, 2022 at 22:40
  • @TheMaster Combining several tags would allow for a crude categorisation, but I agree that c++-faq is a mess when it comes to find anything and I prefer the C FAQ below C tag wiki, though I'm quite biased here. However, the larger problem is perhaps that c++-faq is not as well-maintained as people think. A lot of these posts are merely "interesting" or "about curious exotic feature". It seems very unlikely that any question about C++20 will be a frequently asked question, for example. Yet someone made a whole C++20 FAQ.
    – Lundin
    Oct 7, 2022 at 6:27
  • The C++ community could easily weed out some 50 questions with the tag, particularly the "oh my, this is a curious feature few have heard about" trivia questions that aren't anywhere close to a FAQ.
    – Lundin
    Oct 7, 2022 at 6:27
  • 1
    And now I just noticed that the C++ wiki also has a FAQ, not corresponding to the c++-faq at all... Ok so anyone claiming that these FAQs are well-maintained is simply lying, they clearly aren't maintained at all or there wouldn't be two competing ones...
    – Lundin
    Oct 7, 2022 at 6:33
0

I was just about to make a new post to propose "we should start using tags like language-common-problems to organize canonicals for reference".

-faq is much shorter than -common-problems and I'm glad I accidentally stumbled on this post first.

I wish to wholeheartedly endorse the continued existence of and , and the creation of analogous tags for other languages (especially , for personal reasons that will become obvious below). I will first consider the existing standards for tags, and then attempt to anticipate some objections.

Burnination standards:

  • Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? Is it unambiguous?

It's arguably meta and subjective, but it's easily valuable enough to make up for that. The purpose of the tag is clear: to make duplicate closures easier. Right now, if I want a curated list of reference questions for the problems I keep seeing come up, I need to: 1) curate it myself by using bookmarks (that I also use for other things); 2) have become aware of the advanced search features; 3) put the clunky magic phrase inbookmarks:mine in the search bar. Either that, or rely on an external site (e.g. for Python, that's https://sopython.com/canon/).

  • Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

There is nothing that could possibly be more on topic for the site than "a question about programming in a specific language which is frequently asked".

  • Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

Yes; as stated, it facilitates searching for duplicates. It also signals that the question and answers cover (possibly after editing) a broader concept, rather than having been aimed at helping fix OP's problem.

  • Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

I can't fathom any room for ambiguity.

Other possible objections:

  • Why not just use the tag wiki?

First off, tag wikis are incredibly undiscoverable. I have been on the site 11 years, am a regular dupe-hammer-wielder - and was genuinely surprised today to find out about the excellent content in the Python tag wiki.

Second: tag wikis have to cover a lot of other material. Pointing someone with a common question in there is asking them to drown in things unrelated to their question. Perhaps it will be better for the beginner programmer in the long run, but it's certainly nowhere near as courteous as a duplicate closure.

Oh, you meant, why not use it to find the duplicate closure links? First off, I cannot put the equivalent of intagwikifor:python into the search box. Second, that excellent tag wiki, again, has to cover a lot of other material. In the Python case, there are (as of writing this) 18 links in the FAQ section, and (assuming there aren't any inline links) 129 other links.

Even offsite lists often don't have what I want. The SOPython canon I mentioned above has only 134 entries. Plus it's off-site, plus I have to click through those entries after searching them and hopefully find a useful canonical within the site's own wrapping FAQ text.

A -faq tag is a much more scalable solution, in every way.

  • But it's a meta taaaaaag!

Tags like this clearly could stand on their own, for the specific reason that they incorporate the language name. While I personally would leave the tag on a question that I marked as , removing it wouldn't make the tagging useless - it would only deprive people searching for [python] of results.

  • Aren't you just sorting by difficulty level or quality?

This is clearly different from tagging the question according to "difficulty level" or similar. Something like e.g. "Least Astonishment" and the Mutable Default Argument is a somewhat subtle point, and the underlying cause is material that tutorials and documentation don't cover very well (even if they should). It has, however, also been extremely useful as a dupe target.

It's also different from tagging the question according to quality, although of course FAQ entries should be among the highest quality on the site. The motivation is not to reward either the question itself, or the asker; the motivation is to get dupes closed.

  • Aren't you just sorting by popularity/comment score? The site search can already do that.

I have several rebuttals here.

  1. "Frequently asked questions" doesn't necessarily mean the most frequently asked. It is an established format for conveying vital, fundamental (not the same thing as "basic") information to learners. Many "FAQ"s on the rest of the internet have somewhat contrived questions (How often do C++ programmers actually ask about the similarities and differences between private inheritance and composition? I would think that if the topic comes up at all, "why would anyone ever use private inheritance?" is a much more likely starting point). Even when the questions sound "natural", they're focused on a) questions that help with debugging; b) questions that solve a practical problem; and c) questions that build a superior mental model of the language. On the other hand, programmers wonder about esoteric details all the time. (The top questions for are actually all pretty good from what I can make out; but the voting grossly overstates their importance.)

  2. The site search only gives me a top-N list of questions in the tag if I explicitly search and then manually look at the first N results. That might be useful for, say, studying a programming language, but the tag wiki has the advantage of being curated. It's also not useful for closing duplicates, which is the obvious reason for maintaining such a tag.

  3. There's a massive age bias in question and answer scores. A lot of the oldest questions are obsolete (especially for Python, there are questions specific to now-obviated 2.x behavior, and they aren't all given a version-specific tag), and a lot of the oldest questions are outdated (new, updated ones get buried because of the score, no matter how good they are; updates to older ones are not applied consistently).

Deliberately written FAQ targets in 2022 have to start at zero and compete with all that. They're also, evidently, vitally necessary in many cases. The problem with FAQ material is that, a lot of the time, nobody who actually has the problem, has the skill required to write the question properly.

Popularity is also a positive feedback loop: popular questions get more exposure, through site and external search, and thus have more opportunity to gain even more upvotes.

  1. Even among the oldest questions, there are hidden gems - questions with wide applicability that cover common misconceptions, but didn't become very popular. This one and this one, for example, are below +100.
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  • You already have this for every tag on the site stackoverflow.com/questions/tagged/c%2b%2b?sort=frequent Heck, I've rarely found where the tag-faq is not included on the top questions of that list. Basically, people are adding meta information instead of using the systems already available meta-information because they don't know. That tab provides up-to-date information about every tag of the site, no human involved.
    – Braiam
    Jun 1, 2022 at 16:43
  • 1
    What exactly is "sort by frequent"? Also, again, I cannot set a sort-by option in the duplicate search box; it sorts by some ineffable relevance metric that is wrong all the time. Also, I want manual curation because this is exactly an area where I expect SMEs to know better than "the wisdom of the crowds". In some cases, there are questions I want to highlight exactly because they are a better canonical than the one "everyone knows" how to find, or has bookmarked etc. Jun 1, 2022 at 16:54
  • It also allows - with discussion in the Python chat room, of course - the ability to create new canonicals for emerging needs, and get them publicized without having to wait for them to overtake a hundred existing not-quite-fitting questions. Jun 1, 2022 at 16:56
  • Although really, I would be happy if I could just add personal tags to questions. Bookmarking things and searching within your bookmarks doesn't really solve the problem. For example, it's hard to get stackoverflow.com/questions/20002503 to turn up in search results if you don't already know the title, even though it's extremely "frequent". Jun 1, 2022 at 17:04
  • @KarlKnechtel "What exactly is "sort by frequent"" This is a feature which used to be more prominent than it is nowadays after some site re-design. You can find it by clicking on the C++ tag, then "More -> Frequent" in the menu. This obscure feature is problematic for several reasons though: 1) it's just one big unsorted mess, so you can't find anything specific, and 2) it ranks frequently linked posts as high as frequently used as dupe target. So questions like the book recommendation list (another abomination) holds the top score, not the most FAQ.
    – Lundin
    Jun 2, 2022 at 14:01
  • Yet another problem with this is that the most FAQ C++ questions also happen to be C questions, with Why are these constructs using pre and post-increment undefined behavior? being the undisputed all-time #1 FAQ for both languages (it's asked several times per day). Yet this is correctly tagged C so a C++ user moderator wouldn't be able to find it with "sort by frequent" nor by the C++-FAQ tag.
    – Lundin
    Jun 2, 2022 at 14:03
  • @Lundin What I meant was, objectively what is the metric it's using? Jun 2, 2022 at 19:16
  • @Lundin it's not a "unsorted mess", it's sorted by the questions with most duplicated questions closed against it, which is literally what a "FAQ" is supposed to mean: frequently asked questions.
    – Braiam
    Jun 2, 2022 at 20:18
  • @Braiam To be useful to humans, it needs some manner of categorization, so that a person looking for a question about a particular subject has a chance to find it.
    – Lundin
    Jun 3, 2022 at 6:12
  • @Lundin you already have c++ for that, what else do you need?
    – Braiam
    Jun 13, 2022 at 15:07
  • @Braiam Categories for various parts of the language. We're talking about the biggest and most feature-bloated programming language ever created. Also as it happens, some of the most common C++ FAQ are only tagged C since the languages overlap a lot.
    – Lundin
    Jun 14, 2022 at 6:12

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