83

I have noted that recently fewer and fewer questions are getting positive score and I think this is a tendency that has been going on for a while. In fact I wrote a DB query to check how the percent of non-positive ranked questions has been varying over the years.

The data in this chart is given in the table below.

year  month # quest non-positive
2011    1   81021   33.8270324977
2011    2   84251   34.7865307237
2011    3   102536  36.9587266911
2011    4   97264   37.1607172232
2011    5   101960  34.3526873284
2011    6   100884  35.0224019666
2011    7   102338  36.9207918857
2011    8   108963  37.4273836073
2011    9   103888  38.1410750039
2011    10  103079  38.4132558523
2011    11  110793  37.692814528
2011    12  105515  38.650428849
2012    1   118225  38.3133854938
2012    2   126421  40.3904414615
2012    3   136643  41.9340910255
2012    4   131582  41.5679956225
2012    5   137237  42.0360398435
2012    6   133284  42.4499564839
2012    7   144917  44.1576902641
2012    8   143925  44.1493833594
2012    9   134385  42.4772109983
2012    10  152536  41.2066659674
2012    11  150489  40.5338596176
2012    12  137517  41.3483423868
2013    1   160653  45.015032399
2013    2   157280  47.274923703
2013    3   177641  47.437809965
2013    4   175181  48.7832584584
2013    5   170267  49.6608268191
2013    6   161938  49.8592053749
2013    7   180568  50.7836382969
2013    8   173569  50.4767556418
2013    9   168777  51.47383826
2013    10  187990  53.3512420873
2013    11  179817  53.7919106647
2013    12  168706  53.4966154138
2014    1   192856  54.6558053677

Data source can be found from this query (2011 onward).

So I am wondering are the questions really getting that much worse? The amount of non-positive rated questions has increased by more than 15% for one year. Is it possible that the community as a whole gets more negative (and thus less welcoming) to new questions? Is there any other explanation for this tendency?

51
  • 51
    I'm not sure if they get much worse. Voting tells if posts get less useful. Which might be true if you consider that most of the questions are blatant duplicates not adding anything new for future visitors.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 10:47
  • 16
    There are simply more people using the site so there are also more people asking questionable questions. It makes it a lot harder to actually notice the odd corker among the crud, that's for sure.
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 10:48
  • 15
    The amount of downvotes doesn't tell you much. You don't have any information how many good structured questions are downvoted, because it is a dupe (and would had been upvoted if it were asked a few years earlier); or how many actual bad question gathered upvotes, because it was asked in the early years and SO were less restrictive. It is imo pretty ambiguous to look at the votes only.
    – Tom
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 10:48
  • 4
    @Gimby I am pretty sure the number of users did not increase by 15% for 2017. Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 10:48
  • 29
    Older good questions had more time to attract views and upvotes.
    – BrakNicku
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 10:59
  • 4
    If anything we still favor upvoting way more then down voting : data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/797490#graph
    – rene
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 11:02
  • 4
    relevant meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252506/…
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 11:08
  • 28
    SEDE doesn't include deleted posts, does it? That would account for a recent spike in non-positive voted posts. A lot of old posts that don't have any upvotes or activity just get deleted, many of them by an automated script. Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 13:29
  • 8
    Same here. According to this question the script that cleans up old abandoned questions does delete things older than 1 year, so that accounts for the spike. I think @BrakNicku is right about the gradual incline before that being caused by older questions just having more time to eventually get an upvote. Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 13:53
  • 9
    Is there any other explanation for this tendency? .. laziness on the whole .. Laziness from the new poster for coming to a software engineering site without doing what the rest of the 'older' community has done: some basic research .. Laziness on the community for not wanting to help out said newbie and down-voting to oblivion to discourage them from coming back and asking questions .. In the end, I don't wonder why software on the whole has gone down hill over the last few years.
    – txtechhelp
    Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 18:56
  • 3
    @IvayloStrandjev I think you're right, number of users did not increase by 15% for 2017, but by about 27%. The way you said it made it sound like you thought it was less than 15%, though. Just saying... Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 19:02
  • 16
    Since nobody mentioned it, doesn't it make sense that over time it will be harder to ask questions that have never been asked before? And more likely that people will ask questions that HAVE been asked before (which deserve to be DV and flagged)? Commented Feb 5, 2018 at 19:02
  • 5
    I think many can agree with me. We have some toxic users here who simply downvote because their "answer" was not sufficient. The problem is unless its convenient to the more experienced the one seeking for help is punished. I rarely ask questions and when I do I am usually disappointed with the attitude of people. Just recently, some user added a comment with an answer which I specifically mentioned I was avoiding. After I commented back asking them to reread the question, they followed with a downvote. I guess to put it in simple terms, emotion driven down voting and its ruining the community Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 0:56
  • 5
    I'm also genuinely curious about this: is SO designed to create a library of questions, where whoever is asking them is irrelevant, in which case the usefulness of questioning decreases over time as most questions have been asked before, or is it designed to create a community of humans, where questioners receive answers from other humans, in which case the person asking matters more than how they worded the question? Sorry if that was a taboo thing to ask ... I'm still new here ...
    – jess
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 5:21
  • 5
    @JessB - The design was to create a repository of knowledge, where if you had a question it would have an answer. As far as questions and answers are concerned, there are several analogies, one used by the founder was that questions are the sand, and answers are the pearls. "Without people interested in providing good answers, the questions are moot" - Jeff Atwood's Optimizing For Pearls, Not Sand
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 6:32

4 Answers 4

51

Ok, let's fix these queries...

First problem: no deleted posts. There is actually data on deleted posts in SEDE, so that's not a problem - just query PostsWithDeleted instead of Posts:

select dateadd(month, datediff(month, 0, p.CreationDate), 0) month,
  count(iif(p.Score<=0, 1, null))*100.0/count(*) PctNotPositive
from PostsWithDeleted as p
where p.PostTypeId = 1 -- question
group by dateadd(month, datediff(month, 0, p.CreationDate), 0)
order by dateadd(month, datediff(month, 0, p.CreationDate), 0)

This produces a much less spikey chart:

chart of data returned by query above

The two other complaints here are that charting the all-time score inherently favors older posts, since folks have had more time to find them useful. This can also be addressed using only public data: voting data is available even for deleted posts, so we can calculate an effective 1-week score (this is slightly inaccurate as it pretends votes that were cast during the first week and retracted later never existed, but the differences are minimal). We should also ignore questions created less than a week before the last snapshot from SEDE, as they won't yet have a full week of voting data available. Finally, let's also chart trends for positively- and negatively-scored posts separately, so that we can see how those play into the trend you were observing:

declare @cutoff as DateTime = (select max(CreationDate)-7 from Votes);

with ScoreInAWeek as
(
  select p.Id PostId, 
    isnull(count(iif(VoteTypeId=2, 1, null))-count(iif(VoteTypeId=3, 1, null)), 0) Score
  from PostsWithDeleted p
  left join Votes v on p.Id=v.PostId and v.CreationDate < cast(p.CreationDate+7 as Date)
  where p.PostTypeId=1
  and p.CreationDate < @cutoff
  group by p.Id
)

select dateadd(month, datediff(month, 0, p.CreationDate), 0) month,
  count(iif(siaw.Score>0, 1, null))*100.0/count(*) PctPositive,
  count(iif(siaw.Score<=0, 1, null))*100.0/count(*) PctNotPositive,
  count(iif(siaw.Score<0, 1, null))*100.0/count(*) PctNegative
from PostsWithDeleted as p
join ScoreInAWeek siaw on siaw.PostId=p.Id
where p.PostTypeId = 1 -- question
group by dateadd(month, datediff(month, 0, p.CreationDate), 0)
order by dateadd(month, datediff(month, 0, p.CreationDate), 0)

These results are virtually identical to what I can obtain using the raw internal data, so I would consider them very accurate.

chart of data from query above

Note that the trend is still clearly in the direction of most questions scoring 0 - but unlike your chart and the one I posted above, this indicates that the short-term score has been 80% <=0 for over 5 years now!

Now... about your question...

Is there any other explanation for this tendency?

There are almost certainly multiple factors here. But I want to reject the whole "community is more negative" thing, because it borders on being a tautology: if you define downvoting as negative, then an increase in downvoted questions is an increase in negativity by definition; if you don't, then it's irrelevant. We ask people to vote according to their opinions: if the results displease us, we shouldn't blame the messenger - we should look at what is conspiring to alter those collective opinions.

And... As others have already noted here, we've kinda known the answer to that for years now: there are a tremendous number of poorly-written, boring questions... And we don't do a good job of helping folks find ones that interest them.

One of the big goals for Stack Overflow in the early days was to give folks something fun to do over their lunch break: read interesting answers, answer interesting questions. No one is going to read thousands of questions over their lunch break; if they don't get lucky and find something quickly, they're gonna go hang out somewhere else. Currently, the best way to find interesting questions is to create complicated sets of tag preferences or searches that match your interests; that's a lot of work for a casual reader.

This is nothing surprising though; the exact same thing has happened to countless forums, message boards, link-sharing services and every other venue where humans gather together for ages. Jeff & Joel were talking about this kind of thing during the entire design and growth phase of the site. It's expected; natural; really, really hard to avoid...

...So what next? Well, if you look around at how groups behave (say, in a city), you tend to observe a few common patterns:

  • Increasing regulation / social pressure to conform. I grew up in a fairly sparsely-populated area, a place where you didn't have to worry too much about social conventions most of the time - so I didn't. Moving into town meant learning a seemingly-endless list of rules: where to walk, where to stop, when to talk, how to look at others and when to avoid looking at them, how to rest, how to chew, how to say hello and when to say goodbye... It felt like every moment of my life had been taken over and dictated by a harsh set of laws that couldn't be written but would be swiftly and ruthlessly punished.

    Stack Overflow is the same way: to allow thousands of people to coexist without tearing each other to ribbons requires constant social pressure on every action an individual can take lest it cause problems for someone else. And folks joining the site for the first time can feel overwhelmed, oppressed and punished by the conventions that us city-dwellers consider common manners.

  • Emigration. For a lot of people, this all becomes too much: they move to the suburbs, to another country, to a hermitage up in the mountains. This, too, we see here: most of the other sites in the Stack Exchange network were born from folks on Stack Overflow wanting a place to talk about something else. And people regularly stop participating entirely.

  • Subdivision. Maybe you stay in the city, but try to keep your interactions confined to a smaller group of people that you know and can trust: those in your building or block, club or workplace, church or support group. Over time, enough of these subdivisions grow up that it becomes impossible to consider the larger whole a "group" at all; they share some of the same space, but operate almost independently - the rare exceptions being those who facilitate in areas that must by necessity cross-cut the groups: public officials, politicians, and weirdos who don't know better than to mind their own business.

    You see some of this on Stack Overflow, but the software kinda works against it; there are few good ways to facilitate communication within a group, while tags, meta, and chat are simultaneously too obscure and too widely accessible to allow such a subgroup to keep to itself. The desire is there, but it's less common than one would expect.

The weak support for subdivision is telling, I think: when the choice is between living in the middle of Times Square and heading for the hills, the latter option starts to look really appealing even when you really want to stay in the city. Stack Overflow has plenty of people who are perfectly happy following one small tag or another, but finding your way there is beyond frustrating for many users - new and old alike. This is precisely the problem that Sklivvz was working on solving three years ago, but the work never made it to completion; I expect Channels will take another crack at it.

18
  • 2
    There was also Pekka's "Portals" proposal (which has an additional alliterative advantage). (Strangely marked "complete" because of the Facebook minisite trainwr^Wexperiment.)
    – jscs
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 23:22
  • 6
    We do have subdivision in that some tag communities tend to have different standards and (for lack of a better word) customs when it comes to question and answer reception. Asking an android question is a completely different experience than say asking a C question.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 23:30
  • 2
    My take: creating questions with the ability to stand the test of time is the best way of ensuring positively voted questions. The further you get away from that, the more likely questions are to be in the red, with the extreme being "can haz teh codez noww" finding negative territory almost instantly. Finding and enforcing the middle ground is and will continue to be the problem to solve as far as generating high quality content while still satiating the desire for instantaneous solutions.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 0:01
  • 1
    Thank you for taking the time to write this answer. I just want to say that my post was never meant to be sensation seeking and I agree that the stats is somewhat misleading (which was not my intention) In this question I tried to give an objective measure to the impression I have. I just feel concerned that's all. Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 5:46
  • 1
    Thanks for putting together a more thorough analysis. (The fact that it agreed with the concern in my answer is purely coincidental!) What happened near the end of 2009? Was it when daily rate limits were put in place for downvoting? Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 11:03
  • @AndrewGrimm there has never been a rate limit for an specific kind of voting, just for global voting. And the dip was likely due some queue that went up around that time.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 15:24
  • I honestly have no idea, @Andrew - other than that it certainly wasn't a reduction in downvotes (questions scoring < 0 actually went up slightly in total volume during the same period, but not as much as question volume increased overall). Positively-scored questions increased in volume by almost 9K from December to January; that's a big increase. Part of it may have been a bunch of Android devs joining the site - see also mobile growth trends.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 20:17
  • The short version of this seems to be "yes" and with no suggestions for solutions. You seem to suggest a big SO breakup, where the site would have many sub-divisions. Then Channels. That's not really about this issue at all. And if it was, wouldn't that just create little communities with all the same problems? Reddit doesn't get better because they fork a sub-redit into two very similar reddits. I don't see why SO would get better. I guess I'm fishing you for suggested solutions. Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 0:12
  • 2
    Honestly, I stared answering just to provide some accurate queries, @fredsbend... Then I got to musing. I'm not good with solutions; I fully expected Stack Overflow to collapse under its own weight by now, so every day that it keeps functioning is like a little gift. These are the directions I expect to see it take, based on how I've seen people act - whether one is better than another or how we can encourage it... Those are harder questions.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 0:15
  • @Shog9 You're an SO employee, right? Don't you have better insight than that? Surely, SO owners don't want it to collapse, and common business strategy doesn't even want it to contract. It's concerning that one of it's own employees sees doom ahead, rather than hope. Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 0:23
  • 1
    Sic transit gloria mundi, @fredsbend - nothing that we build lasts forever. With constant maintenance and care, we stave off entropy for a little while... But the best we can hope for is a stable orbit, forever falling but never crashing - as with everything in life but one slip away from death. I am hopeful, endlessly hopeful, but I do try to be realistic - blind hope gets you nowhere.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 0:26
  • 2
    Wasn't there a time some years ago where downvoting on a question was costing a reputation point (see here)? Can we identify this period on the graphs?
    – Cœur
    Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 18:56
  • 1
    As you say, there was a LOT going on in 2015, @TravisJ: Triage, homepage filtering, new nav, new profile pages, "next answer" experiments, new question-quality heuristics... My impulse is to credit Triage, since we really ramped up the questions going in there right about the time you see question positivity spike... But in truth, it's probably all of that. A site this big, with this many moving parts is more like a living organism sometimes; you have to treat it holistically. We were full-bore working on quality AND new-user satisfaction AND power-user tooling for much of that period.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 23:40
  • 1
    Senior members of the site add to the pollution. They are not leading by example. Rather than moving against poor questions they are rep whoring. Confer, What is the difference between . and ./ in bash?
    – jww
    Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 7:52
  • 2
    @jww I think SO is susceptible to groupthink. The first reaction sets the tone. Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 15:41
29

Questions tend to acquire downvotes very quickly (within minutes), from high-rep users who are on the lookout for new questions and doing quality control on them.

The upvotes occur can very slowly, often from low-rep users who have the same problem as the OP months or years later.

To do a fair comparison, we should look at the net score of questions the same period after they were asked, such as looking at the net score of questions asked in May 2011 as of May 2012.

15
  • 17
    It also depends on the time of day it seems. I've noticed that a lot of bad questions at night when North America and Europe are asleep don't get challenged. I suspect that a lot of high rep users are from North America and Europe, slightly older (30's, 40's and 50's) with families, and are busy during the evening and night. They're active during the day because they get bored at work. Just my gut suspicion, I'd be interested in seeing some hard data to back me up.
    – mason
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 5:17
  • 15
    Based on an N=1 study, I can confirm your suspicion, @mason.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 11:48
  • 4
    I feel sometimes new users get targeted unfairly by "older" users on SO, keading towards a rep bias on question votes.
    – Marilee
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 12:08
  • 7
    @Marilee I don't feel that way. Newer users are typically less experienced and don't follow the rules or common sense when it comes to asking for help. Therefore they get downvoted and closed questions. That's not being unfair. The same would happen if a user with a high reputation did that. They've just learned how to ask a good question (most of the time).
    – mason
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 13:17
  • 11
    @mason see HondaZidek answer. He nailed it yet he got 4 downvotes for a good answer, simply because the more established users do not agree with him. It feels like SO is becoming an exclusive community. There are many comments on other sites about the "unfriendliness" of the SO community. I hear what you are saying about the rules. But instead of downvoting and shutting new users out, why not guide them in the right direction sprinkled with a touch of helpfulness and friendliness. Just my 2cents
    – Marilee
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 14:47
  • 10
    @Marilee Calling longtime users who care about the quality of this site "race purity nazis" and comparing them with the Gestapo - you really think an answer like that is going to engender any good feels? He didn't nail it at all. I'm all for helping new users out with guidance, but at the same time we need a way to clear our their garbage questions. Letting them know via downvotes that their question isn't well received is a strong incentive to clean up their act. It's a stick and carrot approach - we can't be all carrot.
    – mason
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 14:50
  • 1
    @mason We will have to agree to disagree pal. Sure the "race purity nazis" might have been a slightly derogatory term towards established users, but other than that I agree with everything he said. I guess I can also add that SO is a community driven content site which relies on mostly new users to generate more / fresh content so personally I feel we should be slightly more welcoming to them.
    – Marilee
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 15:02
  • 9
    @Marilee Slightly derogatory? We're trying to keep up the quality of content on this site. That is a far cry from committing genocide. Users with any experience level post bad questions, they get them closed. I'd rather not use this site if we just allow it to fill up with terrible content. Users come to get their questions answered. If the people that give the best answers tend to be the ones with the most experience then I'd say we don't need to cater much more to new users than we are already are. The truth is, it's easy to ask a good question. We have lots of resources to help with it.
    – mason
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 15:07
  • 7
    @Marilee "slightly derogatory" lol srsly? Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 15:36
  • 6
    @Marilee 'why not guide them in the right direction sprinkled with a touch of helpfulness and friendliness' fine, sounds good. Please post your emal address so that we can forward links to such questions. You can then help them. I hope you have a very large inbox and a massive team of assistants, because you are going to be handling a LOT of bad questions, and continually typing/copying in the same help info as is currently freely available on SO. Maybe it would be more useful if there was some sort of boolean, or numeric 'flag' that meant 'go look in the SO help pages'? Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 17:02
  • @mason to be fair, I have suggested today that profs who set terribru exam questions should be executed immediately after the exam by a firing squad made up of the students who had to try and answer. I'm not sure that's genocide though, more like justifiable homicide:) Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 17:06
  • @mason SO has at least become an awfully touchy bunch. You can't deny that. Especially on meta and regarding this issue. Here's a copy of that deleted post. Read and see for yourself that a legitimate answer to this meta issue is given. Truly, if you found the snarky Nazi reference unpalatable, editing would be the appropriate reaction, however, deletion is preferred here on MSO. Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 22:08
  • 4
    @PatS 'But downvoting within the first 24 hours should be prevented' lol, 24 extta hours of trash. Do you also suggest that upvotes be withheld for 24 hours to let the "normal users" decide for themselves if a question is useful? Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 12:46
  • 2
    @PatS By your own argument, you should only give rewards and never give negative feedback... this simply doesn't work. Negative feedback is a feedback: it allows the receiver to improve its responses to stimuli. That's how human survived until this day, thanks to the full array of positive and negative feedback.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 18:46
  • 1
    Counter-example to "Questions tend to acquire downvotes very quickly ... from high-rep users who are on the lookout for new questions and doing quality control on them.". The best I can tell senior folks are just rep whoring: What is the difference between . and ./ in bash?
    – jww
    Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 7:58
11

Including 0 voted posts in your query has caused the results to look more negative than they are, indeed the very use of "non-positive" lends itself towards making the reader believe that the results examine the negative trend, however that is misleading in this circumstance.

While 0 may not be a positive number, it is also not a negative one, and here it could just as easily mean that there was not enough expertise or views than simply being neutral. Questions need time to generate views, and also time for others to experience the same edge case in some situations. Given this, it makes sense that over time these posts will be upvoted, but may sit at 0 for some time.

Seeking out to determine if questions were getting worse is something many users here do, this sentiment has existed for almost as long as the site has, and examining other similar questions will quickly show that this is a long standing feeling.

The problem with analyzing something which changes so drastically over time in a static environment such as the snapshot query used is that it tends to miss many other circumstances. The numbers used here for analysis are subject to change, and there are some guaranteed changes to occur, as there will be growth in the older established posts as well as the automated processes that remove posts from time to time.

Overall, I think it is important to keep a wary eye on the quality of questions as a whole, both new and old, but would tend to want a broader analysis to tackle such a task than basing it on this query. I do not think that questions have gotten worse over time, but it is inevitable that as there are more question askers over time the quantity of worse questions will also increase, just as the quantity of high quality questions will increase.

4
  • Speaking subjectively after literally spending hours everyday on this site certainly isn't that the community is more negative — the percentage of low quality questions certainly seems worse than it ever was. I think part of this is because folks with less and less experience are asking them because programming is being taught earlier and earlier to younger folks. Perhaps we need a site for "professionals" or at least only for folks above the age of 15...
    – martineau
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 23:37
  • @martineau - I wasn't trying to imply that the community is more negative, I have felt that question quality was dropping in the past and have went through the process of examining that before as well - although I did try to be a little more exhaustive in the search for reasons than the query originally shown in this post. I was just noting that the conclusion shown here is probably not as accurate as it should be given a more in depth look at the problem.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 23:45
  • If you look at Shog9's answer, then I believe you will get a far greater degree of accuracy with regards to the issue at hand, you can clearly see that this has been a problem for quite some time now, and hasn't drastically gotten worse recently.
    – Travis J
    Commented Feb 6, 2018 at 23:46
  • 2
    @martineau there is already a site for professional and enthusiast programmers - Stack Overflow. Commented Feb 8, 2018 at 12:48
-4

I think there's definitely a culture issue on SO. It's becoming increasingly difficult to take the community seriously, when all it used to be about was getting some programming questions answered. Now you have to be an SO expert before you can ask a programming question.

I found an excerpt on one of those blogs that complains about SO's issues. It's especially apt on this specific issue, so I've quoted most of it below.

The community becomes less and less tolerant towards the “basic” or “stupid” questions. In the good old times of Stack Overflow, basic questions like What is reflection and why is it useful? (What is reflection and why is it useful?) (score 1516 as of Feb 2018) or What is dependency injection? (What is dependency injection?) (score 2420 as of Feb 2018) were highly voted up and produced good answers. Nowadays such questions would be marked within minutes as Too broad or unclear what you are asking.

Also the community was more willing to answer questions which look similar. And this was good – what is clearly “the same question” for the experienced ones, it’s something totally different for the beginners, as they cannot see the similarity. And often lazy so called “reviewers” mark as already answered just purely on the basis of the keyword occurrence, and not based on the actual meaning. I cannot understand how can a single question be voted for closing within 10 minutes – it is simply not enough time to really read them and understand.

Once a question has several downvotes or even close votes, the way back up is virtually impossible. As someone already noted in meta, it’s much easier to close a question than to re-open it. And a question with several a negative score does not attract the user to even read it.

I am not happy about the direction Stack Overflow is going.

Maybe in the old times the SO users were just excited that there is a site like this, and they were enjoying it and let others enjoying it too. Now everyone who has reached the reputation limit for closing joins this review craziness and make it even worse.

16
  • 5
    @TinyGiant I'm not trying to promote that blog, or even suggest that people read it or the billion comments on it. It's grossly out of date anyway. It was written in 2012. I'm just trying to let the other perspective live on this post, where it completely applies, yet was deleted. So, do you have anything new to bring to the table? Commented Feb 7, 2018 at 23:11
  • 3
    @TinyGiant "have been discussed and disproved" - is that just an SO newspeak for expressing "have been deleted under the excuse of using offensive language"? I somehow miss the discussion. Disclaimer: the quoted deleted answer was mine, and yes, it did use some expressive language - but it also contained concrete arguments. About a year ago I myself wrote to the above mentioned blog critically against the blog's opinions and in favor of the SO community. Now I must admit that the blog has valid points. Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 7:17
  • And wow, they also closed this question: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/251758/2886891 with 1224 upvotes - at least they did not delete it. Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 7:26
  • 5
    @Honza In my experience such posts usually consist of nothing more than handwaving and baseless inflammatory accusations without any intent to discuss anything at all. Then what usually happens is the community comes in to discuss, the OP bursts into flames cursing damnation upon all who may suffer their wrath, then they usually end up deleting the post themselves, or it is deleted by a moderator or community members for any number of reasons. There have been a few constructive discussions that are out there if you put some effort into searching for them...
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 7:36
  • 3
    ... and that post is closed because it is subjective well beyond the normal boundaries for meta, which is evinced by the answers and discussion... and the 1.5 pages of deleted nonsense rant answers. When people start using the words Nazi or Gestapo to describe an interaction on the internet, any hope of a meaningful conversation is lost.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 7:36
  • 3
    @TinyGiant The term en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grammar_Nazi is quite commonly used and I do not find anything unacceptable in paraphrasing it to mark people whose activities I perceive in the similar way. The pack of "reviewers" often behaves like Gestapo - and this figurative usage of the word is also documented urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=gestapo as "Someone who yells loudly and gives orders, as if they were a member of the Gestapo." But of course, any excuse is good to silence an inconvenient opinion. By deleting my answer the moderators just proved my point. Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 8:04
  • 4
    @HonzaZidek as i said, it was clear that any hope of having a meangful conversation with you left a long time ago. That you don't understand how absolutely offensive your language is does not make it any less offensive. I would recommend taking your trollish nonsense to one of the thousands of pits of despair that allow such hate speak and vitriol.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 15:17
  • 1
    @tinygiant The answer is currently reproduced right here in the blockquote. Are you going to reply to it or not? Read Shog9's answer and my comments and his reply. There is no contention that this problem exists. Even, some believe it's unavoidable. Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 15:43
  • 1
    @TinyGiant I admit and I am sorry that by using the expressive language I made you incapable of reacting to my concrete arguments. I think it is a flaw of both mine and yours. Try to focus on the content rather that on the language. (And by the way that's exactly what the term "grammar nazi" in discussions denotes - focusing on someone's language instead of what they say.) Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 19:18
  • 1
    @HonzaZidek You don't have to apologize for using a common hyperbolic metaphor. The idea that you do is Orwellian, but that's the world we live in today. Commented Feb 9, 2018 at 21:09
  • Hmm, Tiny Giant deleted his account. Perhaps his comments here were compensating for his displeasure with the site. Funny how life works. Commented Sep 23, 2019 at 0:49
  • 2
    "blah blah... yawn. Do you have anything new to bring to the table? " = It's scornful.
    – Quidam
    Commented Nov 24, 2019 at 5:48
  • 1
    lol I love how this comment section is a perfect example for the eilitist mentality here. Probably I'll get banned for this, but it's so true
    – z1on
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 16:08
  • I'll be deleting my SO account, and all others now pretty soon here. Just going to scrape the useful posts of mine that I refer to still for my work, then I'm off forever. I'm thinking I won't even click SO or any SE post in search results either. This is a bad company and a bad of dishonest communities. Commented Nov 16, 2023 at 18:33
  • "The term en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grammar_Nazi is quite commonly used" - aside from the fact that this doesn't make it acceptable here, it's also very much not what you wrote. Far from "proving your point" by deleting that, the moderators enforced the Code of Conduct - which is specifically aimed at making the community more welcoming. Commented Feb 11 at 15:32

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .