285

The phase 2 of the burnination process described here is completed and it has been decided that the tag should be renamed to [game-development].


Currently, the tag has 376 questions, most of which are relating to the creation of games or creation of game-related plugins/software, etc. I don't see the point in this tag because it conveys no real information. It's overly broad and doesn't give the reader any more information than the title does.

  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?
    Sure, it can be used to describe the contents of the question, but not very effectively. Gaming could relate to creating games, or game-related programs. It doesn't do anything in most cases because the title already provides the information, such as https://stackoverflow.com/questions/47795818/puzzle-game-using-c-sharp-windows-form. The title already conveys the fact they're creating a puzzle game, and the question itself is unclear and asking for a debug-pls. The tag encourages bad debug-pls and broad questions with no real use, and itself is broad.

  2. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?
    No. Gaming could be used to categorize questions regarding the creation of games/game-related content, but that has no real need. Gaming itself is off topic for Stack Overflow.

  3. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?
    No.

  4. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?
    It's overly broad and can relate to games, game creation, gamification, etc. Some suited for GameDev.SE and others just plain off topic.

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  • 10
    Oh boy, there are some off topic questions on the gaming tag. Good riddance, I say.
    – Lauraducky
    Dec 18, 2017 at 4:44
  • 81
    Notably, such questions might be better off at gamedev.stackexchange.com.
    – Lundin
    Dec 18, 2017 at 10:19
  • 61
    Whatever happens to [gaming] should also happen to [game]
    – j08691
    Dec 19, 2017 at 14:42
  • 28
    #2: Writing games is on-topic at stack overflow. So "No" is wrong; there are things that could fall under "Gaming" that are off-topic, but the same is true of almost every tag you can think of (Java: Talking about the country or coffee is off-topic!) There is no need to be wrong in your answer to the 4 tests just because you want to say "bad tag" in every case. Dec 19, 2017 at 14:44
  • 3
    @Zorkind Moderators can migrate posts. But for a successful migration, the moderator also needs to know what's on-topic on the other site.
    – Lundin
    Dec 19, 2017 at 15:59
  • 12
    I agree with getting rid of that tag. We do not have a business applications tag, so why have a gaming tag. The point is that by virtue of naming an entire class of applications, this tag is general enough that any good question on it would just as easily apply to other classes of applications. By the way, we do have a scientific-computing tag, and I wonder if it has the same type of problems.
    – user4843530
    Dec 19, 2017 at 16:20
  • 17
    I recently had a problem with detecting facility reservation conflicts in my event management system - as my database grew, my sql query grew way too slow. I read an article on collision detection for games, and it solved my problem. I cannot think of a single issue in gaming that would not be applicable to a host of other classes of applications. To me, that says that the tag, at best, does nothing to help me search for a specific issue. At worst, it misleads people into thinking that is the tag that will contain the best answers for their issue.
    – user4843530
    Dec 19, 2017 at 16:31
  • 11
    @MilesRout I can't think of a situation where a question with an appropriate title and about game development having the tag would make the question better. Gaming, IMO implies the action of playing a game, which also doesn't fit right for developing games.
    – Andrew Li
    Dec 19, 2017 at 22:03
  • 5
    Stats at the start of featuring, Q +142/-7 Apr 18, 2018 at 17:17
  • 6
    @Li357 We're out of the "I've got a clever title, vote for me" phase and into the "Let's make sure we want to do this" phase. Comes with a price but the tag will go away in the end.
    – Machavity Mod
    Apr 18, 2018 at 17:52
  • 2
    @Yakk [gaming] has nothing to do with game creation it is the activity of playing a game which is clearly off-topic to this site. [game-creation] or at least [game] might work. But gaming has nothing to do with programming except the game wants you to program. But then the game itself would be the better tag.
    – Kami Kaze
    Apr 19, 2018 at 8:34
  • 8
    [gaming] (and also [game] or [game-development]) are too broad. If one has a problem related to game programming it is usually better to tag with the technology the specific problem relates to ([opengl], [directx], [vulkan], [unity3d], [unreal-engine], [physx], ...) than with such a broad tag.
    – BDL
    Apr 19, 2018 at 8:39
  • 3
    [gaming] is too broad of a tag IMO. [game-development] is not overly precise, like a specific technology or framework would be, but I disagree that [game-development] is too broad to be a tag. [game-development] could be used to ask questions about algorithms or approaches popular in developing games, without asking for a specific language or framework implementation.
    – JaredH
    Apr 19, 2018 at 11:17
  • 9
    Game Development mod here. About the migration: I don't think game development related questions should be off-topic for SO if they're about programming, but encouraging users to ask them on gamedev.se instead of SO in the future (and not on both) might help them get answers more adapted to their context. If SO community and mods feel like they should get rid of game related questions, and that they're on topic on gamedev.se, well sure, in the future, migrate them on a case by case basis, but I don't see the point in migrating all those old questions. Apr 20, 2018 at 18:36
  • 4
    On a personal note, I think this tag's usefulness is to indicate "This question is in the context of making a game, so please steer the answers in that direction.", which is kind of meta, and could be indicated in the question text. Apr 20, 2018 at 18:45

6 Answers 6

80

TL;DR it doesn't seem like an egregious tag to me. I like the above idea of renaming .

From the perspective of a person answering questions, I think it makes sense for a game developer to subscribe to this tag. Gaming concepts cross multiple other paradigms – things like buffering, game state, game engines etc.

As noted above, folks in data engineering could find useful.

Not to make too sweeping of a generalization, but if you nuke this tag, then what does it say about any tag that is about a type of problem, but not scoped to a specific language or framework?

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    gamedev.stackexchange.com? The whole problem with gaming is that it attracts questions about making simple games. The addition of the gaming tag adds no information whatsoever. It's just useless. There are better tags.
    – Andrew Li
    Apr 19, 2018 at 17:28
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    @Li357 What's the line between questions in stackoverflow vs gamedev? They're both programming related, so it's a case where I think either would be appropriate. (unlike say boardgames) Apr 19, 2018 at 17:31
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    You mentioned game engines and specifically game development (such as implementation detail of game mechanics, etc.) Those are clearly more suited for GameDev since they explicitly relate to games and its aspects. For programming assignments that involve games, such as tic tac toe and chess, etc. the [gaming] tag conveys no information the title doesn't already.
    – Andrew Li
    Apr 19, 2018 at 17:37
  • 4
    More suited, sure. But would a post about "the implementation detail of game mechanics" be off topic for stackoverflow? IMO the question is on topic, but there might be more subject matter experts on gamedev. Having more people to answer a question shouldn't affect the tag. From the perspective of someone answering questions, I look up things by their tag, not title. What are the uses of tags otherwise? SEO? Apr 19, 2018 at 17:41
  • 6
    Even if everything you said was true, it's more efficient to have one tag for each engine instead of a catch all tag for everything and anything related to gaming.
    – Braiam
    Apr 19, 2018 at 18:20
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    @AnilRedshift GameDev did not originally allow programming questions (that were on-topic for SO) on it. That's been relaxed in recent years, but the general rule of thumb is, "Will a game developer get me a better answer than a regular developer?" Apr 20, 2018 at 2:42
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    As someone in science and engineering, I can assure you that I deplore the existence of a scientific-computing tag. Apr 20, 2018 at 2:46
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    The reason why this doesn't work is that users seldom read the tags. So we have [gaming], and that must mean we accept questions about general game development, right? It invites users to post off-topic questions ("How do I make this game?"). Then they get frustrated when their question gets closed. Bad user flow.
    – Machavity Mod
    Apr 20, 2018 at 3:27
  • @Machavity FWIW a "How do I make this game?" would also be off-topic on gamedev because it's too broad. Apr 20, 2018 at 18:34
  • @AlexandreVaillancourt but at least you have a little more resources to figure out what specific guidance would be useful for the OP to improve their post. In our case, at most we would say that it's too broad.
    – Braiam
    Apr 20, 2018 at 20:22
  • What does it say about any tag that is about a type of problem? That's a thing I've been pondering for some time. We've been steadily burninating tags that are about problems not directly related to programming. I've asked a question if there are special considerations for burninating such tags here, but that's gone unanswered. In the context of this q/a, I think we should be restrictive in burninating such tags, focussing on the ones that are actively harmful to the site.
    – Erik A
    Apr 23, 2018 at 7:29
  • Disagree. game-development is too vague to be a valid tag. Anything can be used for the purpose of game development, so it's a clear meta-tag. Apr 23, 2018 at 18:58
  • @AnilRedshift The difference between Stack Overflow and Game Development could be the same as the difference between Sci-fi/Fantasy and Movies; sci-fi and fantasy movies are on topic with either site. It may be the same case here. Apr 23, 2018 at 20:20
36

As mentioned in the other answer, which the community decided, has been removed from the system and has been renamed to .

Some stats:

360 questions were renamed!
1638 favorite and ignored tags remapped!
71 tracked tag badges were remapped!


Work left:

We need to cleanup , which can be done by:

  • editing questions (to improve the question WITHOUT removing the tag),
  • flagging/closing questions that are duplicates/off-topic/unclear/too broad/opinion-based,
  • filtering on this tag in the Close Vote Queue

Here are some quick links to get you started:

1
  • I believe that some coordination could be done if the questions are indeed off topic on SO with gamedev.se. Through I suspect, that it wouldn't be so much content unique to SO.
    – Braiam
    Apr 19, 2018 at 21:27
22

Often, what is good, sensible or needed in game development is quite perpendicular to what would be considered good in general development.

The most obvious split between gaming development and regular development is that by and large, the development community has settled on the truism that in software development, readability and clean design is widely preferrable over performance, with the exception of obvious edge cases. In contrast, in game development, performance always needs to be on the forefront of your mind when designing anything.

Another common philosophical split is that in general software development, open source is a mindset that is considered the norm and obviously right, whereas games usually need their internal workings to be hidden and obscured lest they make 'gaming the game' too easy.

Due to these contradicting philosophies, I would like to strongly voice my opposition to the burnination. I would support a move like gaming -> game-development as suggested by @AnilRedshift if there really is an epidemic of people asking gaming, but not game development related questions, which I personally have not noticed.

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    While you raise valid points about the specific needs of gaming software development, none of that seems to be best addressed by a tag. These considerations are best addressed by a clearly-worded question.
    – Beofett
    Apr 20, 2018 at 13:48
  • 1
    performance always needs to be on the forefront of your mind when designing anything I could name a dozen games right now where performance was not an issue in the development of the game. Some games are rather simple in nature
    – Neuron
    Apr 21, 2018 at 17:16
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    performance always needs to be on the forefront of your mind when designing anything. => "90% of a program's execution time is spent in only 10% of its code. The standard inference from this rule is that programmers should find that 10% of the code and optimize it ... But a second inference is just as important: programmers can deoptimize the other 90% of the code (in order to make it easier to use, maintain, etc.)" -- Richard Pattis (cc: @LonelyNeuron) Apr 22, 2018 at 8:50
  • I would rather put the distinction that regular development is all about reuse and building upon the existing solutions, while games, however masterful, are always a one-off product. Apr 23, 2018 at 19:07
3

Good, on-topic questions that are related to game development should just be retagged [game-development]. Game development is an actual programming topic that you can legitimately be an expert in (in fact, they offered entire courses in game design and development when I was in college). The rest of the questions can either be closed and deleted or can do without this tag completely - the tag isn't contributing anything of substance to them.

2
  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

    Yes, it describes the contents of questions to which it is applied; they are almost universally problems about programming games. It is pretty unambiguous that what programs are games.

  2. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

    Programming games is quite clearly on-topic for this site.

  3. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

    Yes. Gaming in general has a different set of requirements than other kinds of programming. To be concrete, there is a significant difference between the assumptions that the C++ gaming ecosystem and general C++ programming has, about as large as the difference between embedded C++ or other domains.

    Experts in C++ gaming programming will be aware of common assumptions in C++ game programming: exceptions are often disabled, RTTI is gone, std library is often replaced (sometimes with behave-alike libraries with different performance characteristics), etc. And the kind of APIs you are going to use and how you'll solve them on various platforms will differ if you are writing a game.

  4. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

    Yes, it means writing programs for games. How that changes the meaning of the question will vary with other tags; a C++ question with gaming is going to be different than a PHP question with a gaming tag, but both are going to be about making a program that is a game.


The OP forced the answer to no in all of the categories in question. I'm not stating it is a great tag, but burnination and mass removal in theory is supposed to require a horrible tag.

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    From the meta tag post The reason meta-tags are a problem is that they do not describe the content of the question. They describe some other aspect of the question [gaming] is essentially a meta tag. While it describes an overall goal, it is not essential to the question. Indeed, in many of the instances its used it's never even a main part of the question. In fact, most of the questions are vastly disparate and some are little more than "this is for a game"
    – Machavity Mod
    Apr 20, 2018 at 16:23
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    @Machavity The fact a tag can be used incorrectly is not a reason to burniate. It isn't essentially a meta tag, it can be used as a meta tag. And things that can be used as X are not essentially X. Apr 20, 2018 at 17:54
  • 1
    "but burnination and mass removal in theory is supposed to require a horrible tag." I was under the impression that it was a not useful tag instead.
    – Braiam
    Apr 21, 2018 at 2:21
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    Yakk, while it may be that large swaths of games have certain things in common, those things do not come from their game nature. A spaceship combat game has similar constraints to a flight simulator (which is not a game) and very little in common with a poker game.
    – Ben Voigt
    Apr 21, 2018 at 14:52
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    Disagree with (3). Rather add more tags, which specify engine/library/whatever. E.g. tag [unity] tells more about the question than [gaming] in that aspect. When those are specified - [gaming] adds nothing.
    – Sinatr
    Apr 23, 2018 at 15:24
  • @Sinatr The existence of a situation where a tag is redundant does not mean that the tag never adds meaningful information to a post? Apr 23, 2018 at 15:58
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    @Yakk, it's not like this. [gaming] alone only tells "the guy forgot tags", nothing more. "problems about programming games" - which problems? Maybe path-finding or sprite, or artificial-intelligence, or artificial-life, or some other, which already has tag? So why using [gaming] and not proper tag? To ask broad question?
    – Sinatr
    Apr 24, 2018 at 6:53
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    Whenever you search for solution, would you use [gaming] tag at all? Nope, you will try to use more specific tag/word, because, while you may be writing a game, you wouldn't mind to read about solution applied to not a game. To me tagging question with [gaming] is like tagging with design when you are making some designer software. It's wrong and not helpful. Read this: "but I am doing program for design, it's not the same as other programs and has its specific problems and goals"..
    – Sinatr
    Apr 24, 2018 at 6:59
0

Ideally, what would happen here is that someone who tried to tag their post or would be offered the choice to:

  • Post their question on https://gamedev.stackexchange.com/,
  • Retag with the specific engine (e.g. ) they have a question about, OR
  • Ask the question as an algorithm question ("how do I check the state of multiple objects (who cares that they happen to be enemies in a game) and have them update themselves?" rather than "I want to make a game like this, but I want you to do it for me.")

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