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I just noticed this advertisement on SO:

Microsoft advertisement banner with male only words

The two words in circles make this ad target males only, since in Hebrew there are different forms of verbs for males and females. While technically correct and "legal", this is unprofessional* in my opinion, and can be easily fixed by changing the verbs.

To elaborate, the first word marked is "בנה" which means "build", but only for males. The feminine form is "בני", and the gender neutral form is "בנו". The second word marked is "נסה" which means "try", but only for males. The feminine form is "נסי", and the gender neutral form is "נסו".

Can someone from SE reach Microsoft and ask them to do that?


* Why unprofessional? Read this article about gender in formal writing. It's in Hebrew, but the summary of this is: while technically correct and allowed, addressing males only is irritating lots of females, and the language should change, and is changing, over time.

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  • 14
    Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I (or somebody else from the ads business-side team) will come back with updates on what's happening. AFAIK, it's just a matter of requesting a new image from Microsoft, but I imagine it'll take a while for the thing to be fixed.
    – Horia Coman StaffMod
    Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 10:31
  • 2
    @iBug my location isn't secret... just take a look in the profile. :) Oh lol you're iBug here, iDebug on MSE. Smart!! Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 15:55
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    @ShadowWizard Inspired from Will and Won't.
    – iBug
    Commented Dec 13, 2017 at 23:03
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    @HoriaComan No fix is required, please see my answer and consult with somebody else who knows Hebrew for an impartial opinion.
    – Oleg
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 1:40
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    Solution: Adblock.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 8:44
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    Oh yeah, exactly what this site needs - some busybodies policing 3rd party ads .
    – tereško
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 9:06
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    @tereško the ads are already strictly "policed", e.g. they can't put animation, Flash, etc. Nothing here is fatal, but if they can be more "modern", why wouldn't they? Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 9:15
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    @ShadowWizard those are "upload restrictions", determined by mime-type. What you are asking for actually requires to hire a pair of eyeball (I know - how ablist of me), to look at each and every ad, that has already been cleared by marketing department of a "trusted partner" company. Aaaand maybe that company decided to target the ad to a specific demography. It's their choice.
    – tereško
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 10:11
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    @tereško No one said SE should hire another pair of eyeballs to review every ad. All that was said was, "Hey, here's an ad that would be more inclusive if it were worded slightly different. Can we reach out and see if the change can be made?" Don't read more into it than what was said. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 15:39
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    aww you notice ads and even reads the content? horrible
    – Sagar V
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 17:21
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    It's not addressing males only though, the singular male form is used to address both males and females.
    – Oleg
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 22:04
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    @Oleg no it is not. Learn Hebrew before reaching wrong conclusions. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 23:16
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    I've been using it for more than 25 years so I know it well enough thanks. The article by the Hebrew Academy linked from my answer titled "Addressing both man and woman" which says that the singular male form does just that, proves that what I'm saying is correct.
    – Oleg
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 23:24
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    @Oleg so you are using it wrong. Or more accurate, you refuse to accept it has changed and still changing. These days it is expected to use either both forms, or male plural form, not male singular form only. That was the standard 25 years ago, true. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 23:30
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    Far from it, yes more and more people are succumbing to feminist pressure and start using alternative forms but it's far from being "changed", the singular male form is still correct and widely used to address both genders. @tereško Lovely to see a kekistani with high rep here gives me hope for this site ;) but to be fair the change she suggests is perfectly normal and good Hebrew it's just not necessary.
    – Oleg
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 23:50

1 Answer 1

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There is no problem with the ad.

The male form in Hebrew is also the default form and it is used to address both men and women when the gender is unknown.

בעברית צורת הזכר היא הצורה הסתמית, הלא מסומנת. Translation - In Hebrew the male form is the default, unspecified form.

OP's suggestion to change it to "בנו" is not the gender neutral form but the plural male form. It's also mentioned in the article linked above and feminists like it better.

In conclusion the ad as it is now targets both men and women according to correct Hebrew and in no way looks unprofessional, an ad with the changes requested by OP is also correct and for some reason most feminists don't have a problem with the plural male form like they have with the singular male form.

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    Might be correct technically but the vast tradition is to use the male plural form. I did not make actual linguistic research. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 5:34
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    The language (as any language) can, and should, change. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 6:25
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    @ReutSharabani: What do you think the chances are an ancient language like that is going to change something this fundamental?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 8:45
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    Given that the hebrew scripts its based on have other fundemental rules that were removed or changed I don't see why this can't. Languages change all the time. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 8:48
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    @Cerbrus the language being actually used is nothing like the ancient Hebrew, and is newer than English. Read more here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revival_of_the_Hebrew_language. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 8:57
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    As a native Israeli I strongly disagree it is "nothing like the ancient Hebrew". It is strongly related to it, but different. Labguages can and do change. They must, to survive. The only unchanged language is a dead one. Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 9:38
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    @ReutSharabani Latin is dead, Klingon is alive (actually true)
    – Jeutnarg
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 17:42
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    @Jeutnarg how is Klingon any more alive than Latin? Both are used, neither have native speakers
    – eis
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:20
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    @eis the Klingon Language Institute meets annually to update the language (among other things) kli.org. It's expanding and growing, if perhaps a bit less organically than a major language would.
    – Jeutnarg
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:23
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    "a dead language is "one that is no longer the native language of any community", even if it is still in use" - Wikipedia
    – eis
    Commented Dec 14, 2017 at 18:34
  • When people say that Latin is dead, they are referring to classical Latin, which is dead. Church Latin is not the same thing. Also, @eis, you may wish to read the somewhat-conflicting wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_death "eventually resulting in no native or fluent speakers" is a different bar to judge a language's death.
    – Jeutnarg
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 15:34
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    I can live with the pings but can you guys please explain to me why discussing whether Latin and Klingon are dead or not is relevant/important?
    – Oleg
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 15:38
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    The question of Hebrew vs ancient Hebrew is very directly related to the original question and your answer. This is closely correlated to the question of a dead language vs a living language. To this I satirically (but not, I believe, falsely) replied that Latin is dead, but Klingon is alive. People disagreed - but we did manage to scrounge up two definitions of what makes a language dead and even brought up the whole classical Latin vs church Latin thing, which is parallel to the ancient Hebrew vs. modern Hebrew question. Discussion appears to have come full circle.
    – Jeutnarg
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 15:50
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    @Jeutnarg ancient Hebrew was incorrectly brought up by Cerbrus, OP's question and my answer are about modern Hebrew, it's similar to he vs they in English. But alright, I see that Klingon and Latin are important to some people so please continue.
    – Oleg
    Commented Dec 15, 2017 at 16:12

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