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As some regular readers may know, I am a fairly committed editor on Stack Overflow. One of my main edit styles is to trim chatty/fluff material, so that (a) readers do not have to wade through irrelevant material, and (b) observant post authors read the edit reason and make a more succinct post next time.

This sort of editing is in a similar vein to this kind of tidy-up. Where I choose to do some editing, I will also look at the rest of the post, and fix other things like case, spelling, formatting, and so forth (there is usually something else that can be fixed).

However, I have taken the view that if I remove chatty material using a general search, affected post authors do not always notice the point of the edits, and so they often carry on adding the same fluff. For the last year or so, I have therefore bookmarked several searches of "fluff phrase + user", in order to demonstrate to those users how their posts can be made more succinct. In my experience, most users falling into this category accept such serial edits without demur (they probably don't care much either, but we have to accept the user-base as they are).

However, it happens that some users, as we know, do not like to be edited, and they regard serial editing as a form of harassment, regardless of the validity of the individual edits. Sometimes they will merely complain to me in a comment, and sometimes they will rollback, leaving a post in a worse state.

Sometimes in these cases I will add a custom moderator flag, to ask for:

  • a rollback to an earlier revision
  • a guiding remark from a mod to ask that fluff is not restored
  • a guiding remark from a mod to ask that persistent fluff items are not added into new posts

However, there have been a couple of recent occasions where a mod has not been happy with this sort of flag, and the "declined" replies to me have been, erm, robust to say the least. I know mods are under a heavy workload, but I wonder if there is some unspoken guideline I am missing. A moderator once said to me that he noticed I'd been "following this user around", which was technically true, but missed that I was following a fair number of users around!

For example, if the external view of my edits is that I am causing a nuisance, then I am very happy to either show that my edits are useful, or to stop editing by user entirely. I would be sad to do the latter, since I think it is the only way in which some users will notice what improvements we'd ideally like them to make.

Using bookmarks to monitor future edits

In the comments below, Bergi suggests that it is not desirable to use user-specific bookmarks to police future behaviour. I disagree with this, and in fact I would cite it as a key advantage I forgot to mention earlier. One cannot know otherwise whether good edits are being thrown away by a hostile user (it is not common, but it does happen - I have had some users patiently re-edit religious material back in after having taken it all out!).

Related question

I note this question is similar, though the answers primarily deal with overloading the front page, or not overloading the edit queue for <2K users. I don't usually tend to do more than ~10 edits in a row anyway. Also, that question is three years old, and I wonder if the general view has changed since then, especially given the mod comments of late.

Example 1

I'll add a couple of examples without mentioning users, so as to avoid any Meta effect. I don't want to get hung up on these folks, nor am I challenging mod decisions - I am asking here about community views generally.

A 5K user had a history of adding "Regards, {name}" to their posts (this became my search bookmark), though they appear to have desisted after making a couple of hundred of them. I noticed also that they like home-made tags in titles, and they would sometimes add pleading fluff ("please help me", "this is very urgent", etc). They were/are also often over-formatting their material (e.g. I'd tend to remove some over-bolding).

To be fair to them, they accepted removing signatures from their work without comment, but heartily complained when I removed more begging messages (found using a search not targetting them, coincidentally enough). Finally I noticed an old question of theirs that was not accepted nor resolved, and so I updated it with old comments that it was not resolved, and the OP rolled it back in a hostile fashion, complaining in the comments they were going to "monitor" my edits.

I reported the rollback to a mod, who strongly did not like my focussing on them, and my rollback request was rejected (and the useless question was let be). I had not been trying to serial-vote on that user, just serial-edit their work.

Example 2

I was reminded by a moderator in the comments below about another case that I had forgotten about. I was at one point going to do a Meta post on this 10K+ user specifically, but I think the rules about calling people out are a bit more strict these days, so I eventually decided not to.

I had tried serial editing this person's posts also, but they were so antagonistic to receiving editing guidance, I had to give up. The woefulness of their post style (despite the quality of the technical material) perhaps gives another flavour of how post quality can go off the rails without better standards and enforcement mechanisms:

  • Excessive headings, bold, italic, superscript, keyboard formatting, SHOUTY CAPITALS used for emphasis (often several at once)
  • Hyperlinks on whole paragraphs
  • Offers to help with commercial projects
  • Editing lengthy moderation/editing complaints into their answers, and restoring them back several times when they are removed
  • Swathes of copy and paste material repeated between answers
  • Quote blocks used as a general highlighter
  • Prose-style line breaks,
    in paragraphs for no,
    typographical,
    reason
  • Ampersands and plus signs used stylistically instead of the word "and"
  • Spaces inserted inside parentheses that sometimes result in ( orphaned brackets )
  • Promotional links to their own questions in a specific tag (even after a moderator has asked them not to)
  • Various English misspellings
  • Lengthy and pointless tributes to famous computer scientists (with photographs)

Yes, unfortunately a lot of that rubbish is still there, and it is effectively uneditable. One can preserve a hell of a messy post history in quiet tags.

Addendum

As an aside, I have sometimes commented on Meta that we could use technology to help people write better posts. It would be an extension of this proposal, but rather than giving a template that is easily ignored, there'd be some sort of annoying Microsoft Paperclip that gives dynamic suggestions based on what they have typed so far ("you don't need to beg for help", "thanks in advance aren't necessary", "greetings and regards are best removed", "readers know to ask for more code if they need it" etc).

However, until and if that is implemented, we're stuck with a manual process.

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    Following a user around is creepy, even if you're following multiple users around. Secondly, even if it's not intended to be harassment, it might have the appearance of harassment, which itself is not a good thing. I agree with the moderators. Stop following specific users. Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 20:34
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    It's worth noting that in cases like this the importance of the changes is relevant. Fixing a rather minor issue is something I'll be reasonably likely to just drop if an author really wants me to not fix, whereas if there's a more important change to a post that significantly impacts readers I'll raise the issue to moderators if the author rolls back. Without examples it's somewhat hard to say whether your changes were important enough to pick a fight over.
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 20:35
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    @SamIam: ouch! OK, would you expand that into an answer? I have justified why I think "following around" is useful - if you could build on your theme, it will give readers something to vote on. (I should say that I don't know if "the moderators" are of a single view on this - just that I have had some unexpected negative feedback, and I would like to explore it).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 20:38
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    Why would you bookmark "fluff phrase + user" instead of just "fluff phrase"?
    – Bergi
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 23:30
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    @Bergi: I tried to cover that in my question, but perhaps not explicitly enough. If I search for phrases on their own, then users who add that fluff may only get one edit each on their post history. It has been suggested on Meta before that single edit notifications often go unnoticed, and thus such OPs will carry on adding that fluff to their future material. (Of course, this assumption is open to challenge too).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 23:34
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    @halfer I'm (personally) ok with user-targeted edit sprees where you fix a repeated mistake in several posts of the same user in a row, but bookmarking that search to "follow" that user's future actions, to "police" whether his behaviour changed or to be able to immediately fix any new posts where that specific user repeats the mistake, is indeed crossing the line imo. Just bookmark your general search, and if you come across the same user again treat him as if you had not met him before. (Rolling back useful edits is a different matter)
    – Bergi
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 23:46
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    @Bergi: I see, well fair enough. A few serial edits might send a message, I suppose, though it depends on how many one has an appetite for in one go. The way I see it, the ability to detect whether a user is adding more fluff is a key advantage, since it gives editors a mechanism to ask users to desist adding fluff type X (which, up until this point, I have done fairly regularly).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 0:07
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    @Servy: I have added an example. I was a bit hesitant to add it, since we might get a bit caught up in one case, rather than the general case that I am most interested in. Nevertheless, it may help to give a flavour of what I mean.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 0:10
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    Ah, I had not spotted this question before, which is quite similar.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 0:12
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    @Bergi: can you add an answer to expand on your comment? I am most interested in your view that bookmarks should not be used to check future user behaviour, whereas in fact I'd see that as a key advantage. If you can explain why that is not desirable, but short edit sprees are, that could be most interesting to readers generally (and we can gauge the community's perspective by letting them vote).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 0:31
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    Users who aren't receptive to one-off edits, much less serial ones, probably aren't ever going to learn from their mistakes. Case in point: many users who continue to post with the same formatting errors and in the same poor answering style despite dozens of users editing their posts over the years. Why learn when the community can just fix your errors for you?
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 2:15
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    In the ideal world everyone would understand how to post appropriately and be appreciative of constructive edits - I'm sure you're aware we're not in that world. You did have a discussion with a mod about some things previously about your concerns you're raising here - you're welcome to post those here (minus anything identifiable)- but we won't. In short, there's a very fine line between helping a user with best intentions at heart and someone thinking you're targetting them/harrassing them - whether it be by edits, votes or comments.
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 9:03
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    I asked about this several years ago myself: Serial cleanup of one users questions -- good? rude? both?
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 13:18
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    If you stumble upon a rich vein of gold, you can't just mine it until it's gone. You get to take one nugget and then you must find another vein. You're not allowed to be efficient about this.
    – canon
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:38
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    @canon: you understand my frustration very well :-)
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:39

5 Answers 5

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Do not fight fire with fire.

Sure, I can't even begin to describe how friggin' annoying users are who consistently ask poorly worded, hardly researched and/or badly spelled questions. Even more so if they repeatedly appear to ignore any constructive feedback whatsoever.

I recently poured my frustration with such users into words in Do we need to instill some common sense into minds of users who keep asking bad questions?. I have in my flagging history a list of users who collectively have asked around 20,000 (!) questions, of which an awful lot should've never been asked. They keep asking questions, I encounter them on a daily basis by "organically" browsing the site and my favorite tags.

The verdict was: there's not much you can do.

We're simply not supposed to follow users around and keep correcting and commenting on their posts, because that's not nice.

So as a very wise person once sang: let it go. Sure, it's a truism, but there's plenty of work on the site to be done. Lots of new posts that deserve attention come in by the second. Don't let a couple of jerks drag out the worst of you.

Simply keep flagging their posts and explain what frustrates you about their behavior to the moderators, keep seeing your flags marked as "helpful" and keep seeing nothing changing.

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    Fair enough, thanks for your thoughts. However, to clarify, these are not bad posts in the sense they are closable - they are clear and just about readable. They might be chatty (greetings, regards, hopes you can help, hopes it helps, signatures, thanks, requests for urgency) and they might be poorly formatted and/or in all-lower-case (and so forth). This is not something that can be flagged as far as I know, but you've suggested that we flag these - would that help?
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:57
  • Indeed, if it is regarded as Not Nice to run searches to see if users are producing the same rubbish even after having been edited/asked, I presumably would not have a way of flagging such users anyway :-).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:58
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    I'm not particularly convinced that flagging users for their behavior works, no.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:58
  • If I were to run non-user searches, and edited the same user while not specifically targetting them, how would you feel about that? Does that violate Niceness even though the serial editing is not intentional?
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 11:04
  • @halfer No, but you may have to deflect an accusation anyway as it will be impossible to distinguish from the receiving party's perspective.
    – Gimby
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 15:58
  • @Gimby: hmm, thanks. I guess that leads to the somewhat problematic view that a user can edit in a picture of the Flying Spaghetti Monster into all their posts, and if I (as a non-mod) edit them all out, I am harassing. Of course, I would feel confident in those edits, but the point we seem to coming to is what Sinatr is saying: "this is harassment because I say it is". Quality standards effectively have to go hang because a (potentially terrible) new contributor has uttered the "H" word.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 16:41
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    lol for the last line... :/
    – canon
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:30
  • A new consideration on your choice of words, CodeCaster, and a reason why I think I am not able to accept your answer. "Fight fire with fire" and "drag out the worst in you" are implicit acceptances that serial editing, and my editing is particular, is motivated by hostility. I have been at some pains to show the purpose of my editing is to improve quality standards.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 22:45
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I think you may have made an error in your assessment of the users' motivation for continuing to put in the kind of stuff you're editing out.

If someone keeps doing the same thing after having it edited out repeatedly, I don't think it's because they don't understand that it isn't wanted by the community. I think they do understand, and they've decided they disagree with the community and are going to do it anyway. If they've created that many posts, surely you aren't the only one to have edited them, and others have probably also pointed out to them by now that that type of content isn't useful here, probably pointing them to the same meta Q&A you linked in your question.

So I don't think that what you're doing is educational. Maybe in some cases it is; some people can be pretty oblivious and it can take a lot more repetition for them to get something. But in many cases, it's more like you're just having a drawn-out argument with them over multiple posts.

I think the problem with targeting specific users like this is that you're trying to enforce a community standard on them, but you don't actually have any authority to do so other than your ability to edit, so the only way to accomplish it is by what appears to them to be harassment. (I'm not saying you're intending to harass them; I think your intentions are great, and I think it's annoying that they are being so stubborn about it.) I don't think I'd go so far as to call it creepy, but it does seem at least inappropriate. Unless we're elected to be moderators, we aren't really supposed to moderate users, we're just supposed to focus on the content, and if a user is in need of moderation, to flag their behavior appropriately.

I don't mean that you shouldn't edit posts from those users. The only thing I meant by "inappropriate" was including the user in the search criteria for things to edit. I agree that that kind of stuff should be edited out, but it's easy enough to find it without looking at a specific person.

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    OK, fair enough, thanks for your post. To play devil's advocate for a bit, if I merely serial-edited and accepted roll-backs as part of the editor's curse, is that better? I guess I framed my question in terms of the "awkward" ones, but they are probably 2% of my editing. Is the other 98% worth avoiding for the reasons you outline anyway, or should we keep good edits because they are good? (I accept I am starting from the point that my edits are good, which may be flawed, but I have to start from somewhere).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 16:37
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    I agree with this completely up until the point that you say it's "inappropriate". I'm really sad to see such a strongly single-user-centric view of editing expressed in the answers here. We were supposed to be about having the best content. We've become more and more worried about how individuals feel about the actions we take to make sure we have the best content. Posts are irrevocably licensed to the site, under terms that allow anyone to improve them, so that they can be improved. We should not lose sight of that.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 16:45
  • @JoshCaswell I didn't mean to imply that I thought halfer should not edit posts from those users. The only thing I meant by inappropriate was including the user in the search criteria for things to edit. I agree that that kind of stuff should be edited out, but it's easy enough to find it without looking at a specific person. Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:00
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    @halfer I think your edits do seem good, and I don't think there's anything wrong with editing the same users' posts if they keep showing up in your searches. But as a non-moderator, I just think it seems best to disregard the user as much as possible. It seems to me that if you encounter one of the "awkward" ones, the only thing you'll be able to accomplish is to annoy them and yourself. Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:17
  • @halfer I do feel kind of awkward giving you any sort of advice on editing, considering how little experience I have with it compared to yours. Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:34
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    All right, thanks for clarifying your intention there. Maybe a small edit to your answer?
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:36
  • @Don'tPanic: thanks. Well, I am open to advice (and since I have the edit power I think I should be). To be fair, the problems with the small number of awkward users stems from the fact that they won't talk about things at all. I am reminded in the Q comments about a discussion I had with mods in July, where I had been serial-editing a very hostile and angry contributor, whose material was/is a strange mix of helpful and nearly unreadable. I had tried to engage them, and was rebuffed very strongly, and their woeful output continues to this day.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:38
  • Merely for interest, Don'tPanic, I have edited a second example into my question. I see what you mean about whether my editing standards are universal, but there are some cases where only serial editing would do, and they'd have to be backed up with the confidence that mods would agree to those edits. I am not minded to push much more for serial editing, since several people have come out against it - just identifying a problem.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 22:37
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I am adding a self-answer here, in order to supply another possible solution. We have so far two helpful answers that recognise that it is possible to serial-edit in the best traditions of improving site content, but ultimately they both come down on the other side, which is that on balance, it may not fully resonate with our Be Nice policies. I appreciate the consideration those respondents have given to my question.

During the current lifespan of this question, there has also been some support for serial editing, and a number of additional advantages have been put forward. Firstly, this process can be used to detect the kinds of rollbacks that moderators would be interested in. Secondly, editing the same sorts of errors are much more efficient if they are done by a committed editor in a row.

In the comments, a number of previous similar posts have been found, here and here. On both occasions, the response was "serial editing is fine". Here, the majority opinion seems to be "it's not fine", so it would be interesting to introspect why the community seems to have swayed.

I have previously remarked that the number of people who are unhappy with my serial edits is very low - probably in the order of <1%. I am also of the view that not being able to serial edit is a net loss to the site, given its advantages. Thus, I propose the following as a potential best-practice (for 2K editor users only):

  • Create a bookmarked searched where an amount of serial editing would be more than, say, 10 items
  • Add a comment on the first affected contribution per user, explaining the clean-up (see below)
  • Start serial editing, taking care not to overload the front page
  • Desist if the user says they would rather not have their material edited
  • Only flag user responses to a mod if a behaviour in reply is totally out of line (i.e. ignore rollbacks as part of the editor's burden)

An example comment is as follows:

Hi there. There are a number of minor writing/composition errors in a selection of your posts, and editors here sometimes like to make some wholesale improvements, for the benefit of future readers. This process is generally supported by the community, but if you would rather I did not edit several of your posts, please let me know. For your convenience, there is no need to reply otherwise.

That's just a rough draft, and I think I'd like it to have a URL where we can point them to a related Meta discussion.

Now, I don't personally know if I am willing to make the effort to do that, given that it may end up being too onerous (let's not forget that editors are volunteers too). However, for the purposes of this post, let's say I am willing to give it a go, so as not to lose the benefits of the 99% of folks who don't seem to be remotely troubled about their posts being improved.

Alternatively, something could be added into the edit message, so as not to inject too much meta-material in comment streams:

Fix case, improve grammar, trim urgent begging, re-para (serial-edited, please see https://meta.stackoverflow.com/q/xxxxxx)

Is there any flaw with this? Feel free to vote accordingly.

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    I strongly suspect that leaving a comment every time is likely to increase the occurrence of conflict rather than prevent it. While your question has a different angle to it, I think what you propose in this answer is already addressed by Cody Gray's answer on the related question, which is well-received (no downvotes) and quite recent.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 15:14
  • @JoshCaswell: not a comment for every edit, no - sorry, I will make that clearer. One comment per user whose answers are edited in this fashion.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 15:31
  • No, it's clear that it's one per batch. I still think it's likelier to provoke rather than soothe.
    – jscs
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 15:33
  • Well, who can say, @Josh? I think giving people this level of control (far more than they legally deserve, given the cc by-sa 3.0) ought to be hard for them to regard as an incivility.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 15:36
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    (Still, I am minded to think that edit summaries rarely elicit replies in a way that comments seem to demand, so using that may be a better strategy, if there is value in this approach at all.)
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 15:39
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It's good that you edit posts to make them better, but targeting specific users and searching specifically for their posts is another matter.


Following a user around is creepy, even if you're following multiple users around.

Secondly, even if it's not intended to be harassment, it might have the appearance of harassment, which itself is not a good thing.

I agree with the moderators. Stop following specific users.

You can still browse the review queues and look for good questions to edit so long as you're not targeting specific users.

Don't worry about those users not getting the lesson. You're not the only one who goes around editing posts. The community will pick up that slack.

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    I don't share your confidence that the community will "pick up the slack", for two reasons. Mainly, there aren't enough editors to cope with the number of posts being made, but also editors tend to have their own preferred things to edit, and can still miss things to edit (they might remove chatty material for example, like sigs and salutations, but leave it in all-lower-case, etc).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 20:50
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    Relating to the "appearance of harassment", I guess that is why I am asking this Meta question. If we can develop some community consensus that serial editing is not in itself harassing, as long as the edits are agreeable to the community at large, then this objection is dealt with.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 20:52
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    That all said, if Meta is broadly of the same view as you, then yes, I will stop editing by user. I think that would be a net harm, since users who post questions as if Stack Overflow were a chatroom may not be minded to notice single edits on their post history. Nevertheless, I will respect that view if it is the community's wish.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 7, 2017 at 20:58
  • @halfer If I were on the receiving end of this I would feel very creeped out. I have been stalked on the web before (someone who would always post after me on multiple lists, repos, forums). That person is now, unrelated to their interaction with me, permanently banned from Twitter and extremely scary in what they do. I still do the web version of looking over my shoulder. If you were doing this to me I would be scared and most certainly withdraw from the site. Conversely, perhaps it becomes a game to them to see if they can trigger you.
    – Elin
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 12:07
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    I'm sorry to hear that is your experience, @Elin, and it feels like that is an important contribution that deserves its own thread. Would you consider posting a separate answer? I will respond to it there if you can do so.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 13:02
  • @Elin: this question was marked as a duplicate (which I sort of agree with) so, unfortunately, it is not possible to add a new answer to explore your contribution in more depth. Nevertheless I will put a short response here. Sam's and Sinatr's answers were heavily downvoted, and my guess is this was because they lacked the nuance of the other answers, which recognised that edits within a per-user edit spree have the capacity, taken individually, to be of good quality.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 20:30
  • Politically, I am very much in your camp, which is that victims of harassment should be believed and supported, and that goes for internet harassment too. Where we diverge is whether persistent edits can categorically be regarded as harassing behaviour, and I think that either answer is possible here. Some people will/would edit in an aggressive fashion (and this might be determined by aggressive edit notes or comments) or a harassment interaction elsewhere may be amplified by persistent serial editing.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 20:33
  • However, serial editing in its own right, given with assurances, is not necessarily harassing, and it is that mode of behaviour I am arguing for. Indeed, if one looks at the marked duplicate of this question, not only does the answer go the other way (serial editing is broadly a good thing) but the answer comes from a moderator too. Thus, I am quite a bind as to what the community thinks!
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 20:34
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    In a way, I would encourage you not to see serial edits as focussed on the user - the way I think of it, having done this for a year or so without any malice, is merely that each user will have stylistic traits that are considered too chatty, off-topic, poorly spelled or phrased, containing too much begging, etc, and that it is more efficient to erase or improve these things in a row, even if it is a user's account that connects them. That they are connected by a user is merely a search device, and it is not my intention or purpose to disturb them.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 20:37
  • I should say that I am personally not troubled in the slightest if people edit my work, though since I put a great deal of effort into my posts (to a somewhat OCD level), there is generally not much to improve. In general, the edits I do receive are from disgruntled users who did not like their material being edited at all, and these suggestions are therefore generally pointless and retaliatory in nature.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 20:39
  • Finally, there is something of a meme on the Stack Exchange sites to discourage people from thinking they "own" their content. This is legally the case, given the licensing conditions in the footer, but it also helps psychologically when someone's work is edited - we can say "you are not your post". In fact, I like to think of it as "someone believed your work was worth improving", which then allows us the freedom to not take offence at the edit, and at the same time realising that a small corner of the internet has been made better.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 20:49
  • @halfer Thanks for the thoughtful reply. What I'm saying is that sometimes you need to think about where people are coming from and that their experience shapes how they respond to various actions. So if people have had the experience of being web stalked or even if they have been witnesses to it, that is going to shape how they respond to serial editing. You can be legalistic about it, but it's just like if I have someone walking behind me on a dark street or even driving behind me, even though it's innocent it's scary and creepy especially for women. And so maybe you lose people. (cont)
    – Elin
    Commented Dec 10, 2017 at 23:58
  • Just thinking about recent weeks you should now know that basically 99% of women have at least one abuse/harassment story to tell. Just like people are free to comment on Julia Silge's blog posts but I feel it must be so exhausting to have the abusive comments. But she's an employee so maybe it's different. So .. here's the thing. I think one reason women don't stick around SO and other places is that it's just not worth the headache and stress when it should be something that is enjoyable since it is a volunteer thing. I've been thinking on this a lot following up on some recent (cont)
    – Elin
    Commented Dec 11, 2017 at 0:03
  • meta posts ... that who needs it? I can have other hobbies where no one will follow me around or say it's wrong to have the kind of writing and teaching style I have.
    – Elin
    Commented Dec 11, 2017 at 0:11
  • Thanks @Elin, more good food for thought. I will follow up in a chat session (feel free to reply or not, as you have time for).
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 11, 2017 at 23:51
-24

You choose a wrong way. It's ethically wrong. Simply imagine yourself on their place. Imagine some person suddenly start posting comments under many (all?) of your photos on Facebook. It doesn't matter what comments say. The course of actions matter. That sort of activity. It has a name - harassment:

Harassment covers a wide range of behaviors of an offensive nature. It is commonly understood as behavior that disturbs or upsets, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is behavior that appears to be disturbing or threatening.

There are many other possibilities to find yourself a post to edit if you like editing that much: review queues, new posts, bounties... Use either, but not in a "this user" way. Otherwise you are the villain. You are the guy who the good guy should stop.

Am I saying editing is bad?

Yes, if you are going to edit all (many) posts of someone only by criteria "that guy". That "many" is subjective. You received moderator attention once and you don't deny targeting specific users. We are an open community, but that also means that we trust each other. I trust that no-one will try to fix many of my posts and I'd personally feel very uncomfortable if that would happens. I would think to myself: am I that bad? Why me?

Simply imagine what "that guy" is you and YOU are being targeted for big and small mistakes...

Edits what occurs within few minutes after posting are OK. Edits which improves valuable posts are OK. Serial-edits - are NOT.

19
  • 13
    If I would consistently do something wrong, I would love for somebody to tell me that, even repeatedly. That has nothing to do with being bad guys that should be stopped. Don't shoot the messenger. That there's enough bad stuff being posted to keep one occupied fulltime with moderating and editing does not excuse others from doing the same.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:04
  • 10
    This answer seems to say "it is harassment because it is", which is tautological. Additionally, a useful answer would generally need to address the points I have made - I am trying to balance out serial editing with a number of advantages.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:26
  • 1
    @CodeCaster, you still look at this course of action as helpful, because you are moderator. But think following: there is not a single 100% perfect post around. All of them can be improved. I am not looking at what job OP did, it could be very useful and benefit everybody. But. OP can't fix all the problems, so he must to choose what to fix. And the way he choose - "that user" way - is simply wrong. Ethically. A good thing become bad when done improperly. So I'd say "shoot that messenger if he stays all the night behind my window".
    – Sinatr
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:33
  • 2
    @halfer, instead of fixing 1000 posts of one user, fix 1 of 1000 users. Same benefit, but no harassment: "behavior that disturbs or upsets, and it is characteristically repetative".
    – Sinatr
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:36
  • 3
    I'm not sure a Wikipedia link much affects the usefulness of this answer, I'm afraid. Your last remark about "fix 1 [post] of 1000 users" was referred to in the question, so if you want to address that argument specifically, go ahead. Arguments generally have to balance competing goods before coming to a conclusion, but you've not even tried here.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:41
  • 1
    @halfer, I am not going to find a balance, when you are asking "can I harass people". The answer is - no. Disregards of benefits.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:43
  • 3
    OK, you can stick to your tautology. QED my friend, I have a Wikipedia link! (more cackling)
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 10:44
  • 12
    @Sinatr If my posts were being targetted by a user, because I did something wrong.. I wouldn't care; in fact, I'd love that they were fixing it. You can talk all you want about your personal opinion regarding serial editing being okay/not okay, just don't pass off your opinion as rule/fact.
    – Daedalus
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 11:09
  • 1
    @Sinatr As far as I am concerned, this is a case-by-case basis; I once came upon a user, through a meta post mind you, who was filling their posts with 200% emoji or the like.. and adding a hidden 'donate to me' link in said posts. The donation link is unacceptable per SO's rules. So all the posts in question were sifted through to remove said link, and the user was warned about adding them again.
    – Daedalus
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 11:12
  • 6
    @Sinatr You asked me a question, and attempted to use me in an example of yours; I rebutted. If you're not going to mutually respect the other side of the argument, there's nothing more to say here.
    – Daedalus
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 11:22
  • 3
    @Sinatr A rebuttal is a counter point to a pre-existing point in a debate, or argument. You showed disrespect regarding this rebuttal when you responded to it in a less-than-serious tone; the tone you used did not suggest that you took the point made in any sort of serious respect. But tl;dr(too long, didn't read): If you attempt to use someone to make your point, be ready to accept the backfire when it doesn't work out, graciously.
    – Daedalus
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 11:32
  • 7
    Well, if we are into calling names, then repeatedly posting bad questions is also an activity that has a name. It's called vandalism. Sure, some people will complain that removal of their graffiti is a harassment and destruction of art, I just can't imagine myself being in their place as you suggest.
    – artem
    Commented Dec 8, 2017 at 17:11
  • 1
    If I had the energy, and I saw you were doing something wrong in dozens of posts, I would be more than happy to edit all 67 of your posts to remove the silly/wrong/sappy/off-topic/idiotic material. So, time to stop trusting that no one will try to fix many of your posts. You have been warned.
    – ErikE
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 17:04
  • 4
    @ErikE: I agree, but with the proviso that your/my/any serial editing is not painted as the doling out of some sort of punishment (in other words we edit out of quality/kindness, not as a warning). On this page already editing has been casually compared to harassment several times, and once by someone who has experienced genuine and frightening internet harassment. I want us to get away from this idea, because (a) we are not our posts, (b) we have explicitly licensed them to the community, and (c) improvement is not harassment. The key issue should be whether the edits are any good.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 17:16
  • 4
    But yes, people claiming their posts must not be edited is a problem on Stack Overflow, and partly gives rise to the problem I describe in the original post.
    – halfer
    Commented Dec 9, 2017 at 17:26

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