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Recently I appear to have deserved a review ban, having failed multiple audits and, perhaps, making inappropriate decisions about posts. I take it.

It's been few months that I've been granted access to reviewing and the pattern of good/bad is probably just forming for me, sometimes rendering vague which resulted in my first short-term bans. And while I agree with the resolution, it doesn't mean I employ this access disrespectfully.

I believe a lot of people used to find themselves in similar situation, trying to do good, but once failing due to lack of attention... or misconception? And here's one:

The following post was flagged by me and others (as seen in comments) as 'not an answer':

AWS EC2 import image error

Here's it's content:

Does your image has encrypted root partition? if yes then you will get this kind of error.

Flag declined with reasoning:

flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer

And there's an audit that I have failed when considered it appropriate after having received a declination of the aforementioned flag:

https://stackoverflow.com/review/late-answers/18138037

Content:

In some cases: Close and open project again.. (after installed lombok and restart eclipse)

This answer essentially says: In some cases... (compare with: Does your...? if yes, then... of the previous answer), with one exception that answer from audit at least suggested a solution ("then do this..."), where the one for which the flag was declined, only described one of the reasons of the error, which may or may not be sufficient to solve the problem of the OP.

So I failed the audit for a question, having marked it as OK from previous experience where similar post was accepted, which was very similar - and arguably even had advantages, providing possible solution - to that which I flagged as inappropriate, where either no solution or a solution of same weight was provided.

This got me review-banned. Prior to this fail, I've had multiple audits (around 10) passed successfully before failing this (as I believe I was checked to regain lost credit). And the latter was enough to extend my restriction from reviewing. If I understand it correctly, only one failed review is enough when you're just back from previous suspension. If yes, then this is it.

I'd like to hear/read some reasoning behind it, as I find it a thing of a puzzle.

EDIT (bottom line - taken from comments)

One post is left intact as appropriate and the other is deleted as inappropriate while the two are very similar. And not only similar, but the one that was deleted is evidently superior. Marking it as OK handed me review ban, while flagging similar (or an even worse) post was declined. I find this arbitrary, not logical and confusing. Either the ban is unjust, or the flag must have been accepted. At the end, I'm finding the audit disputed. But as I'm not certain, I'd like to either be proved wrong or audit revised.

EDIT 2 (my reasoning)

I believe that answers such as "Does your image has encrypted root partition? if yes then you will get this kind of error?" is a clarification, a post which aims to obtain more details about problem and a commentary if a condition is met. Conclusion such as "if yes then you will get this kind of error" is not really an answer as it doesn't give a solution, a way out. This could be a good comment, but not an answer. Correct me, but I've learned that answers which are "good comments" are not yet answers and hence are flagged as such (read: not-an-answer).

Contrarily, audit (deleted) post did attempt to answer question because it (although poorly) provided a solution (read: an answer), that could admittedly be applied to a problem to solve it. It may have sounded poor and not technically accurate (which is not a reviewer's concern), but lexically it addressed problem and provided a solution.

RESOLUTION

Thanks for your time, all who took time here. My enquiry is exhausted for the lack of certainty and understandable status thereof. Disputed is disputed. As Josh pointed in the comments, voting is the shortest way to not get in trouble, which must be employed in the first place. Bad post is bad post, and the rest, unless 100% plain, should be passed by.

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    Not an answer is not the appropriate flag because the answer tries to answer the question (although in a terrible and not helpful way). Use a "very low quality" flag instead or just down-vote-
    – BDL
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:17
  • "Very low quality" is not available on all queues. Btw, which case of the two are you referring?
    – Hexfire
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:19
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    This answer has some details about review banning progression. I just link it because I find it difficult to understand what exactly you're asking about here.
    – Gimby
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:21
  • @Hexfire: Sorry, the first example ("Does your image has encrypted...").
    – BDL
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:23
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    I should add that you drawing the wrong conclusion: Getting the first flag declined doesn't mean that the answer should not have been deleted. It just meant you were using the wrong flag (NAA sends them to moderators while VLQ sends them to the Low Quality Review Queue). On the failed audit exactly that happened. Someone flagged VLQ and the answer has been deleted there.
    – BDL
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:25
  • @BDL I see. I admit that this post might have been better down-voted instead of flagged not-an-answer. But what about the one deleted? It surely does attempt to answer question as well.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:25
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    It does try to answer the question so it is not "not an answer". But it is still "very low quality" which got it deleted.
    – BDL
    Dec 4, 2017 at 13:32
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    @BDL neither NAA/VLQ flags send directly to the mods (except where it's an accepted answer or other criteria) - they go to community review as normal. Normally - they'd be handled in the community queue (and are hidden from the default view of the mod queue for an hour), but mods will pick up some of the work if it's getting a bit unwieldy and they can approve/decline it (hence the message) there. Dec 4, 2017 at 13:44
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    I'm still surprised the review audits don't have a dispute button which triggers moderator oversight if greater than a certain % of folks dispute it. It would save us all a lot of extra meta threads. Dec 4, 2017 at 21:23
  • @TemporalWolf although reasonable in theory - it sounds to me you are basically proposing another review queue. I'm not sure we want to go there...
    – Shadow
    Dec 4, 2017 at 22:03
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    @TemporalWolf depends on whether roboreviewers start robodisputing their robofailures. Which I suspect they would be likely to do if they thought it meant clearing their record...
    – Shadow
    Dec 4, 2017 at 22:28
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    @Liam I'm asking about reasoning, why one post is left intact as appropriate and the other is deleted as inappropriate while the two are very similar. And not only similar, but the one that was deleted is evidently superior. Marking it as OK handed me review ban, while flagging similar (or an even worse) post was declined. I find this totally arbitrary, not logical and confusing. Either the ban is unjust, or the flag must have been accepted. At the end, I'm finding the audit misleading. I'm not certain, and I'd like to either be proved wrong or audit revised.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 10:29
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    @Liam please read initial post with attention before starting discussion. One post is from review queue, an audit, it was deleted. The other is left intact with flag declined.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 10:40
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    @Liam I see where you are coming from. I'm not here to ask for lifting the ban, that's not necessarily and strictly the point and I'm fine without access to review queues, especially since it's short-term (two days left). I realize I must have made enough mistakes in reviewing to be here, so this is not all that relevant. What's relevant is I believe that one of the two decisions here is wrong as they are contradictory.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 11:00
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    Far better than a tutorial would be to just simplify the "detailed reviewing system". It all boils down to one simple rule: "If you see crap, vote to get rid of it". Everything else is a nonsense Rube Goldberg machine piled on through years of Meta discussion by intelligent people lured into using their love of complex systems to create a shambling mass of a taxonomy of ways to classify and respond to posts that are fundamentally just wastes of everyone's time.
    – jscs
    Dec 5, 2017 at 13:21

1 Answer 1

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Both cases are bad answers. However they both are attempts to answer the question. Answers that attempt to answer the question, although very poorly, are a bit of borderline cases.

They should not be flagged as "not an answer". The most appropriate thing to do is to down vote. You could also flag as "very low quality" if the answer is just complete crap.

If it isn't complete crap but just poor, then the flag might get treated somewhat subjectively and possibly get rejected. Some users think that deleting bad answers is no big deal - the content of the answer has no value even if it does attempt to answer the question. Then there's the "crap-huggers", people who are less flexible when moderating and insisting on preserving crap, as long as the crap makes some kind of attempt to answer the question. Hence it turns a bit subjective, from case to case.

The moral of the story is to be careful when moderating borderline cases. If you encounter some unclear case, you can go ask for advice, live, in the SO Close-vote-review chat. There's always lots of veteran moderators there, who can advise what action is appropriate.

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  • I see your reason.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 13:02
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    That said - still - I believe that answers such as Does your image has encrypted root partition? if yes then you will get this kind of error? is a clarification, a post which aims to obtain more details about problem and a commentary if a condition is met. Conclusion such as "if yes then you will get this kind of error" is not really an answer as it doesn't give a solution, a way out. This could be a good comment, but not an answer. Correct me, but I've learned that answers which are "good comments" are not yet answers and hence are flagged as such (read: not-an-answer).
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 13:14
  • Contrarily, audit (deleted) post did attempt to answer question because it (although poorly) provided a solution (read: an answer), that could admittedly be applied to a problem to solve it. It may have sounded poor and not technically accurate (which is not a reviewer's concern), but lexically it addressed problem and provided a solution.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 13:18
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    @Hexfire The second sentence of that answer was not formulated as a question. And answer that solely consists of questions would indeed be a bad one that should get deleted/flagged as "not an answer". However, you are preaching to the choir here, I'm not of the crap-hugger faction. I think that answer should have been deleted. So I already cast a delete vote and there were 2 others already, so it is now gone.
    – Lundin
    Dec 5, 2017 at 14:38
  • "...was not formulated as a question" - typo from me in the comment, no question mark there. I see your point. And ok, this is enough. Decision to delete answer from audit does not seem to be a 100% case though, still dubious. But I can figure there is no real resolution other than just putting more accent on voting rather than flags.
    – Hexfire
    Dec 5, 2017 at 15:43
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    More on VLQ here: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/314661/861716. Which says: VLQ is for answers that really are complete crap. Dec 6, 2017 at 14:21
  • @GertArnold That Meta talks about questions, mostly. For answers, VLQ and NAA are pretty much equivalent in praxis, the get handled by the same people using the same criteria. (At least in my experience, but I guess at over 9k helpful flags, that should be somewhat significant.)
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Dec 7, 2017 at 11:21

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