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I've been relearning Python after an 18 year lapse. As I have a question, I web search it. If there's a SO answer, I go for that one first, because I am familiar with the SO format and the often-nuanced community answers help my consideration of the problem. Anyway, I arrived at this question yesterday. It poses a concretely-answerable, programming-related inquiry:

What is the simplest way to get a list of the values in a dict in Python?

The answer helped me. It would have taken me a few minutes to wade through the Python docs, while the SO answer took only seconds. I wanted to "give credit" to the authors for their help. But I couldn't. The question is locked.

This seems like a perfect Stack Overflow question. Per the Help Center and Jon Skeet, these attributes make a good question:

  1. Write a title that summarizes the specific problem. Check.
  2. Introduce the problem before you post any code. Check.
  3. Include all relevant tags. Check.
  4. Proof-read before posting! Check.
  5. Post the question and respond to feedback. Check.

The question has a correct, accepted answer attached, so I don't see it falling under the "Lacks Minimal Understanding" clause or being the result of systemic failure.

So, to me, this looks like a legitimate question that should not be historically locked. Am I mistaken?

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  • Because it is not "How to do X in python" it is "What is the simplest way to do X in python" which is subjective depending on what simple means for you.
    – BDL
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:08
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    @BDL "Simplest" != "Best". Even if it were opinionated, that's a different close reason.
    – bishop
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:10
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    Feels like it's one of those "meh" questions. It's an answer that could be found if someone actually bothered to look at the documentation. I'm not exactly sure it needs to be locked, but I don't see much merit in unlocking it, either. Further, "lacks minimal understanding" isn't a metric anymore, so it's completely irrelevant here.
    – Makoto
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:10
  • @Makoto SO is the documentation, thanks to search engines.
    – bishop
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:11
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    Python's docs are still a thing and are leagues better than Stack Overflow for documentation.
    – Makoto
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:12
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    IT'S TOO BROAD, such questions would not be accepted today Nov 29, 2017 at 16:12
  • @bishop: Sorry, yes I noticed 5 seconds after typing the comment and changed it.
    – BDL
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:15
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    It is locked because deleting the Q+A gets too many people upset about losing rep. Google "stackoverflow repocalypse" to learn more. A secondary benefit is that it helps avoid dozens of answers that need to be endlessly moderated, just about everybody knows the answer to a basic question like this and can't stop themselves from adding one. Nov 29, 2017 at 16:18
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    Because they do so well in Google, those bad questions become the justification for their own existence. Stack Overflow is polluting search results with this "meh" stuff for which there already are good resources. Even though they're closed, the "meh"s become #1 and push the useful resources to the back. Unlikely to ever change, though.
    – Pekka
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:20
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    I strongly suspect someone tried to add comment "Why 'simplest way to get list of values from dict' question is highly upvoted even if it shows no effort, but my 'how to add 2 to a variable in C++' is not welcome here"... or maybe meta post to the same effect thus prompting moderator action to put very appropriate message (deleting questions with more than 10+ votes is rarely done and frequently causes backlash on meta) Nov 29, 2017 at 16:30
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    We've come a long way since 2013; now people are actually expected to RTFM :P Nov 29, 2017 at 16:37
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    @AndrasDeak What tags do you frequent? I see people asking, answering, and upvoting RTFM questions every single day.
    – Servy
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:53
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    @Servy I admit that was mostly wishful thinking on my part... Nov 29, 2017 at 17:04
  • Be honest @bishop, if that question were tagged php instead, about getting the values of an array in a list, would you be so keen on defending it? That question is bullocks, in any language, across the network, and it's sickening that some tags would have preferential treatment. Nov 29, 2017 at 20:46
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    @FélixGagnon-Grenier if anything python should be on the naughty list: with the quality of the documentation (and an official tutorial!) there's really no excuse to ask questions like this. Nov 29, 2017 at 21:00

4 Answers 4

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Have to be careful when looking at words that end in est, as those can prematurely set off the overly-subjective prevention response in a manner that makes it appear to be knee-jerk. Some of these take a bit more consideration than seems apparent when you look at them.

If you define simplest as in the fewest possible steps or eschewing all but absolutely essential complexity then the question is on-topic, much as "What are the fewest number of instructions needed to [x] in [language] using [processor]" would be on-topic.

I'm not going to override Jon's decision to lock it because I don't have all of the context of the input he was digesting when it came up for him to look at, but my thinking is it should probably not serve as an example of something that should be locked.

If unlocking, the question could probably do with an edit to make the wording a bit more intentional. Even though "I'm looking for the simplest" and "I'm looking for the method with the fewest possible steps" basically mean the same thing, the prior is easily interpreted differently.

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    I know that when I'm evaluating code "fewest possible steps" is most certainly not what I consider, "simplest". There might be some correlation there, but there are lots of "short but complex" code snippets and lengthy but simple snippets.
    – Servy
    Nov 30, 2017 at 17:17
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    Apart from a comment flag I can't see anything that'd have made me go "oh yeah... This needs a historical lock" - so it's either for some reason I can't remember 2 years ago (not sure why I'd pick historical anyway) or I just had a brain burp. Apart from a little bit of current meta attention - can't see any reason why it should stay locked... Nov 30, 2017 at 17:34
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I'm going to codify this into an answer instead of in a comment.

I can see it being on-topic, in spite of the kind of questions in Python we put up with today anyway.

However, and I wish to stress this, it feels very much...meh. I don't see the benefit to this question being voted on, or allowing others to add yet more answers to it. I don't necessarily agree that it should be locked, but I don't see much reason or benefit to unlocking it, either.

My vote is to keep it as it is. There should be substantial enough reason to rescue it, even if its circumstances for becoming locked are a bit dodgy.

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  • 3
    ^^. It won't benefit from having more answers, isn't harmful such that it needs to be burned with fire, leave it alone.
    – Kevin B
    Nov 29, 2017 at 16:40
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I'm not sure if the question should be locked or not, but the question is not legitimate for Stack Overflow and it should be closed as "too broad".

Given this situation, I'm not in favor of unlocking it and then closing it, keeping it as-is is the best thing we can do, IMO.

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  • Best thing is to sweep the question under the rug, so nobody can see it.
    – Braiam
    Nov 30, 2017 at 16:21
0

Here is my opinion on the subject and maybe it will spark some good productive discussion.

This boils down to Stack Overflow's Goal. It's gotten wishy-washy lately here on meta with everyone with their own version of the SO Mission. but i like the quote from SO themselves:

With your help, we're working together to build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming.

That question is involved in "every question about programming" - but the answer may not be detailed (does it need to be for a simple question)? If this question was posted in ~2008 I could see why this would be a good question, because in 2008 the docs were "sub-par" (not in content, but organization) when Python 3 first came out.

There is a trend on SO when a "new" language or library (think Go or Tensorflow) is released, a lot of "RTFM" questions pop-up and get lots of favorites, votes, etc. Why? I think it's because SO does a better job of quick-and-easy answers than a Code Doc does. Why would someone go to the docs when they can just google it in a minute and get an answer here on SO? This may be a problem, but can it even be solved?

For 2013, this seems like a sloppy post. But, locked for historical probably makes sense here - as it is a very popular post and the first thing that returns in google when you search for that "issue". But it's not a good question in light of the time it was asked.

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  • It is not the entire mission statement because it is kind of important that you can search answers rather than only "building" new ones, yet that is not specifically referenced; it is instead heavily implied because that is what you use a library for. So what else can we imagine is implied? A lot, and meta is full of very persistent attempts. "Wishy washy" does not really begin to describe it.
    – Gimby
    Dec 1, 2017 at 12:53
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    (Sorry, comment spam). Now take your statement of this question being very popular. Is it? I see scores of 48 and 70 and 300k views. That's rather trivial compared to for example stackoverflow.com/questions/11227809/… . IMO: this question and answer is not something so spectacular that needs to be guarded with a lock.
    – Gimby
    Dec 1, 2017 at 12:54

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