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I primarily work in a tag () that, in addition to being an actual programming language itself, also contains a "business user" interface (many of them, actually). This is basically a point and click interface where you drag things around and select what you want your report to have, etc.

We get the occasional question about using the various visual interfaces, and while sometimes they're at least sort of programmer-oriented (Data Integration Studio, for example, is a point-and-click ETL tool), it's unclear where the line between "on topic" and "off topic" is; this question (screenshot for <10k users) for example is pretty clearly a user-oriented question and doesn't involve any programming, but I think you could write a program and insert it as a node.

Further, the point and click interface is basically a "wizard", and is generating code that is then executed - it's just a way for a user who is not a programmer to use the product (and in some cases for a programmer to be more efficient.)

Are questions about things like this, when they do not involve any actual code, inherently off-topic, or is the adjacency to a programming language, and the fact that it is writing code behind the scenes, sufficient for questions like this to meet the "tool programmers use" test? Is this an "I know it when I see it" situation with no clear rule?

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    There is a slippery slope here and I'm not sure exactly where we should draw the line (so I'm up-voting the question but not answering it). My inclination is to say these questions are not on topic.
    – Blackwood
    Nov 16, 2017 at 4:58
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    I would think that this: "it's just a way for a user who is not a programmer to use the product" answers the question, IMO. In my eyes, is akin to asking for help in using something like this. A somewhat crude example, but it is another code generating tool.
    – yivi
    Nov 16, 2017 at 7:34
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    The question is also applicable to Microsoft office (word, excel, outlook,ms-access). Often, you can easily distinguish between on- and off-topic questions, but especially in Excel and Access, this can be difficult. Apparently, complex formula development for Excel is on-topic (according to the excerpt), which implies simple ones aren't, but if I don't understand a formula, it's complex to me.
    – Erik A
    Nov 16, 2017 at 9:47
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    How about scratch programming language? Or you mean like creating SQL table with GUI?
    – Andrew T.
    Nov 16, 2017 at 10:36
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    @yivi: But are they really "not a programmer" when they're doing this? Is what they produce really not "actual code"? If I get to claim I'm writing "actual code" when I'm writing C++ that will compile to assembly, why should they not get to make the same claim when they're hooking up diagrams that compile to SAS? People were programming computers by hooking up connections before the tools existed to do it by writing text. Does it matter if it's a data flow diagram instead of electrical wires? Nov 16, 2017 at 23:21
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    @yivi - But the very next thing in that sentence is "and in some cases for a programmer to be more efficient". Forget compiling C++ to assembly; today's languages handle our memory management for us, figure out the types of our variables, and so much more. And our tools write tons of code for us. (Ever try writing a does-real-work Java program from scratch in Notepad?)
    – John Y
    Nov 17, 2017 at 0:56
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    @user2357112 Well, SO wasn't really made for questions about programming by hooking up wires, or using punch cards, or using code-generating graphical wizards. If wizards are permitted, which I think is acceptable to a degree, then I would see that as an extension to the core intention behind the site. But then again, a good number of the tags are really just extensions to the site. SU, U&L, AU, SF, Software Engineering, Cryptography, UX, and others all started as tags on Overflow, until they had amassed enough popularity to become their own distinct communities. Nov 17, 2017 at 21:18
  • Let's argue about labview for a while.
    – Michael
    Nov 17, 2017 at 22:28

2 Answers 2

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Note, I'm not familiar with the particular tool given as an example in the question hence this answer is more generic.

From the manual (https://stackoverflow.com/help/on-topic)

What topics can I ask about here?

Stack Overflow is for professional and enthusiast programmers, people who write code because they love it. We feel the best Stack Overflow questions have a bit of source code in them, but if your question generally covers…

• a specific programming problem, or

• a software algorithm, or

• software tools commonly used by programmers; and is

• a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

… then you’re in the right place to ask your question!

Sounds to me like it checks the last two. And from the exceptions to the rules:

5.Questions about general computing hardware and software are off-topic for Stack Overflow unless they directly involve tools used primarily for programming.

It sounds like it is covered here, the fact that they are using the GUI doesn't matter, it's a tool primarily used for programming (even if they aren't a programmer and don't realise that is what they are doing).

Of course your answer could explain how to do it in the GUI and in the code, or explain what code results the GUI is producing, hence making them a better programmer and isn't that the point of SO, so we can all learn and be better at programming?

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    I've added a screenshot of the deleted post to the Meta question if you'd care to take a look.
    – jscs
    Nov 17, 2017 at 13:25
  • I think the question here is whether the tools here are really 'commonly used by programmers', or if they're sufficiently abstracted that their users aren't programmers. I can't really wrap my head around that here: in my experience the people who do this mostly aren't people I'd want to hire for a programmer position that required understanding programming logic (whether or not an actual language, but the logic underlying it is still relevant); they're analysts rather than programmers. But it's a very fuzzy line, to me.
    – Joe
    Nov 17, 2017 at 15:40
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    Just to be clear, this isn't using a GUI to write C++ code or something; this is basically equivalent to using Excel to analyze some data, and the fact that code is generated is mostly irrelevant. The actual function is clearly not programming, to me at least; Excel belongs in SuperUser if anywhere. But, it is adjacent to a programming language, and generates code in that language; and some of the users are programmers. Add on the fact that you can write code directly in most of these tools if you want to, and it gets very confusing. Effectively mixing Excel and VBA in one.
    – Joe
    Nov 17, 2017 at 15:42
  • Hey Joe, I'd say the fact that code is generated is the most relevant part! If Excel was actually used to spit out VBA and it was then that VBA that ran and let you do your analysis I'd be inclined to answer questions on it since I could say 'When you do X code Y is generated, adjusting it to Z will generate W, or you could write it better yourself directly thus..." Of course I don't know SAS so it might not generate code that is relevant enough for even that in which case I'll bow to someone that knows the particular software better. Nov 20, 2017 at 23:24
  • If that were the question this wouldn't be... but the issue is people ask "How do I navigate the GUI to get the result I want", rather than "How does this code get generated correctly". The answer will be "Click on this other part of the GUI to do this", not "write code like this". I don't necessarily think your answer is wrong, just that it covers one side of this but doesn't really cover the other. Is the person a 'programmer', and is it 'software development', as opposed to an 'analyst' and 'data analysis' or similar?
    – Joe
    Nov 20, 2017 at 23:28
  • Perhaps your answer would be "Click on this other part of the GUI to do this", mine would be "Your GUI (X) is generating this (Y), click this (Z) to generate this (W), it works because of this...". I'm not saying I'm right, I just happened to be interested enough to read the Rules as Written and figured I'd post it and let Meta decide if my interpretation was aligned with theirs. I'm not sure a line in the sand could be drawn as to what makes a person a programmer, or if it would be useful, if I asked the question instead of him does that make it on topic? Nov 20, 2017 at 23:44
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In my opinion, any question that boils down to "How do I navigate this GUI?" should be considered off-topic.

To me, defining behaviour is the essence of programming. Whether that is done through text or a GUI is irrelevant. Therefore, questions like "My current setup produces this result, why is that?" and/or "How can I change it to do this instead?" is on-topic regardless of the medium used to produce that result.

Following this logic, questions about navigating the GUI of IDE:s are also off-topic. This might be a different discussion but my answer is the same.

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