78

There's an infamous user in the tag who often kicks up controversy partly by answering low-effort questions and blatant duplicates, and often by reopening questions that others have hammered for the purpose of answering them. Their seemingly arbitrary single-handed reopens have been challenged several times in the past.

Just now there was a post closed as a duplicate by a gold badge holder, which was then reopened by this user. Let me quote the explanation:

I reopend question because cannot find duplicate.

Then they answered the question with the same information that was in the original duplicate.

Surely there has to be a level of scrutiny that applies to tag gold badge holders. Is there any way we can enforce that arbitrary reopens don't happen, especially with the sole purpose of a FGITW user planting yet another answer?

History of the (now deleted) post:

enter image description here

11
  • 13
  • How can we know who reopened a question? I experienced a similar thing on this question the other day (I closed the question, then question was reopened, answered and upvoted). But how can we know who repoened the question? If it wasn't the one who answered it, the issue is probably different? Nov 8, 2017 at 14:13
  • 22
    This guy has a two-packs-a-day habit. Pretty hard to earn 400+ rep every day by closing questions. Hard to quit, he'll have to find out there's more to being reputable with your peers than a number. Nov 8, 2017 at 14:14
  • 6
    @ImportanceOfBeingErnest check the timeline. Nov 8, 2017 at 14:15
  • 12
    While I agree this question highlights a valid concern, I don't think public shaming has its place on SO. Mentionning the name of the user at fault adds nothing to the pertinence of the question. Nov 8, 2017 at 18:23
  • 8
    I'm a little disappointed that we're making an example of this particular person. I think this'd been better if it was more about the behavior.
    – Magisch
    Nov 9, 2017 at 6:19
  • 4
    The attempt to anonymise the user here has made the post basically completely incomprehensible without going into the revision history. Is the editor in the screenshot the same as the author, or somebody else? What could the user in question have possibly meant by not being able to "find" duplicates if the question was closed as a dup (and thus presumably pointed to duplicates)? If it weren't for the revision history here (or still-easily-Googleable comment), we couldn't possibly know.
    – Mark Amery
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:17
  • 1
    @MarkAmery: the answer to "Is there any way we can enforce that arbitrary reopens don't happen, especially with the sole purpose of a FGITW user planting yet another answer" can still be answered (correctly) without context: flag and involve the moderators. "We need full details to provide you with the exact right answer as a community" should absolutely take a back seat to "let's publicly expose this user's dealings (that I believe to be shady) so the community can help throw the tomatoes". This is the second time in a short time span that I see a question like this become Hot -- not pretty. Nov 9, 2017 at 15:24
  • 7
    @JeroenMostert Except that I've literally never witnessed an abuse like this before today, and without the links (that River has made an effort to censor), I still wouldn't've. Without the "public exposure", the only sensible answer most of us could give to this is "no, there's no reason to enforce that, because it's never happened and so there's no reason to expend resources trying to combat it. The evidence you're giving us isn't enough to think there was any abuse here, and we're not just going to take your word for it". No sensible discussion can even begin without the exposure.
    – Mark Amery
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:27
  • @MarkAmery: I disagree that the response as you indicate is the only reasonable one, but it would be getting us into hypotheticals. We'll never know how the question would have proceeded without it, I guess. Nov 9, 2017 at 15:32
  • 1
    The thing is, you can have this discussion and you can link to the post, where everyone can indeed go check who the offender was. But you don't need to call out their name on meta because of it, neither in Q/A nor in comments. Any form of witch hunt on meta is distasteful no matter the offence - it is probably not allowed by some policy. The reason for posting here should be to start a general discussion. We don't police users through meta, that's what flags are for. The specific errand should be handled by diamond mods only, that's what they are for.
    – Lundin
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:34

4 Answers 4

91

Re-opening properly closed dupes in order to answer them is not acceptable.
It's textbook abuse of one's privileges.

Mod-flag the answer. These flags will add up and eventually will result in a suspension if the user doesn't change their behavior.

3
  • 9
    @YowE3K: The question was first re-opened (12:52:17), the answer was posted 7 seconds later: (12:52:24). The user clearly wrote the answer already, before re-opening it, and re-opened it with the sole intent of posting that answer.
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 9, 2017 at 23:14
  • 2
    Ahh - sorry - I was thinking the link to the timeline in the comments was the one being discussed, but it's for a different question. Oops.
    – YowE3K
    Nov 9, 2017 at 23:57
  • 4
    @Cerbrus Wow, I did not see the timeline, but now that you've pointed it out, that is pretty slimy.
    – cs95
    Nov 10, 2017 at 7:43
29

Just a thought for a solution for future cases: What if when you use your magic hammer to smash a question free, you cannot post an answer to it for 48 hours.

Or, if you hammered a question free, any upvotes or accepted marks will not count to your point total. It will award 0 points.

Or, following @Gimby's suggestion: If you reopen-hammer a question, any answer you post within X time is automatically a community wiki.

That way the smash and grab incentive for fake internet points gets a lot less rewarding, and a lot of other people get the chance to answer that question. Because let's be honest, if you have a gold badge that you can do this, do you really need these easy points?

27
  • 5
    Good suggestion, but I suspect the necessary dev time would never cut it for SO. And "if you have a gold badge that you can do this, do you really need these easy points?": oh how I wish this were true ;) Nov 8, 2017 at 13:50
  • 19
    I like the timeout. Even as short as 2 hours is still plenty to cover FGITW cases. That's be plenty to dissuade the typical "rep-hungry" user from re-opening the question.
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 8, 2017 at 13:50
  • 9
    I think this is a legitimate point and far better than the push for starting a dialogue.
    – cs95
    Nov 8, 2017 at 13:51
  • 25
    To be honest, I am not a fan of having technical solutions for non-existent issues. Before suggesting such a change, I'd like to see (1) how many questions are single-handedly re-opened and answered, (2) how many of those are then subsequently closed again by the community and finally (3) how many gold badge users are involved with this. If the latter answer is 1, then it seems that a technical "cool-down" will just decrease the technical quality of the site by preventing a well-intentioned gold-badge user from answering a wrongly closed as duplicate question. Nov 8, 2017 at 14:04
  • 17
    This assumes that un-hammering is never rightly done. That's a big assumption. I don't say it happens every week, but I've seen it happen. This is a bad "solution" for the reasons @MatthieuM. mentions, IMO
    – sehe
    Nov 8, 2017 at 14:07
  • 5
    I'm more going for an altruistic unhammering. When a question rightly deserves to be unhammered, other people can answer it. It makes a gold badge holder think twice if a closed question needs to be re-opened, because there's no profit in it for him, but he cares about the site. It removes the incentive of "Oh, this one is easy, I know this one, reopen, answer, caching" and makes a more honest review if a question should be opened default. Nov 8, 2017 at 14:12
  • 3
    @sehe and if the un-hammering was done rightly, what would be the harm of proposed delay? Last time I checked this site was not meant for urgent questions "Nobody is going to see that you need an answer ASAP and then drop everything they're doing in order to help you. Your emergencies are your own..."
    – gnat
    Nov 8, 2017 at 14:17
  • 5
    The site is for helping --> "You have it backwards, I think..." @sehe
    – gnat
    Nov 8, 2017 at 14:23
  • 11
    I like the reputation restriction more than the time restriction. A time restriction would block answering in legitimate cases where a knowledgeable expert in a tag finds a question that was wrongly closed. (I hope legit cases outnumber cases like the one being discussed...) Nov 8, 2017 at 14:39
  • 3
    they are @sehe - just re-check the post referred in my prior comment, "If you make the primary purpose "helping people" (with the implicit "at all costs" that goes along with it), and let "build a repository" be the secondary purpose, the secondary purpose is going to get forgotten and SO will devolve into a sh!tty Experts Exchange clone. Actually, that's already happened over the last year or two, because this message is not getting out..."
    – gnat
    Nov 8, 2017 at 14:48
  • 3
    I'm tired of straw men. "Not seeing the use and seeing downsides" (both articulated and supported with arguments) is "unwillingness to wait"? Ok, I guess. @gnat. And being given "a way to post things" is hardly a special privilege (anyone and their dog can post answers). Again, if it's about "excess privilege" then the logical thing to do is to drop the dupe-hammer feature. That makes a lot of sense (I don't really know why I need the hammer. Voting works fine, on average)
    – sehe
    Nov 8, 2017 at 16:09
  • 6
    "Voting works fine, on average". Hardly. I find mjölnir works quite effectively to prevent people from rep-whoring by posting answers to obvious dupes. "Normal" dupe close-votes aren't nearly af fast as they'd need to be to have the same effect.
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 8, 2017 at 16:17
  • 3
    Maybe combine the suggestions. If you reopen-hammer a question, any answer you post within X time is automatically a community wiki.
    – Gimby
    Nov 8, 2017 at 16:34
  • 6
    The case in which a question really was closed in error as a dupe, and the reopener really can answer the question in a non-dupe way is significant enough not to overlook here. I get the intention behind this, but I feel like it's a very, very heavy-handed approach for something which really isn't that big of a deal. ("Not that big of a deal" in the sense of, "there really aren't a lot of users who have this power and are abusing it.)
    – Makoto
    Nov 8, 2017 at 18:29
  • 4
    @Lundin: That order of events (unhammer first, then check if the dupe is correct) is simply wrong and should be discouraged. I'd like there to be a way to save drafts to server storage, so that you can go read related questions and come back -- that has value for both question-writers and answer-writers. But working around the lack of a save-draft feature by improperly reopening is just selfish and impolite and should not be tolerated. A better workaround is to save as a local text-file, then go look at the dupe.
    – Ben Voigt
    Nov 10, 2017 at 16:45
5

To answer your general question, the answer should be "they are not required to provide any justification other than holding the required gold badge". And that is as it should be. Getting the gold badge is supposed to be hard enough that having it indicates sufficient knowledge of how SO works that the bearer can be trusted. Nobody else is required to justify open or close votes.Voting would grind to a halt, and quality would suffer, if there was more friction to voting.

But of course, nothing is perfect, so sometimes such trust can transpire to be misplaced. If the system is correctly set up, such cases should be rare, so it is practical for moderators to be asked to intervene, as Cerbrus advises.

4
  • 6
    As addition: "Moderators are the exception handlers of SE" - Some moderator
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 8, 2017 at 13:42
  • 15
    Actually, having a gold badge is supposed to indicate enough domain knowledge to tell if a question is a duplicate or not. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are a suitable user moderator. Which is a well-known flaw in the SO model: technical experts are not necessarily good moderators, and good moderators are not necessarily technical experts.
    – Lundin
    Nov 8, 2017 at 13:54
  • @Lundin But for authoritative statements on closing and duplicates you at least need some domain knowledge, I think
    – Magisch
    Nov 8, 2017 at 14:58
  • 2
    @Magisch Absolutely, but having the domain knowledge doesn't mean that the person is suited to single-handedly close or open questions. Most often this is so, but not always.
    – Lundin
    Nov 8, 2017 at 15:00
-3

To avoid these kind of situations, perhaps it would be sensible to implement a re-open reason, just as we have close reasons. To begin with, perhaps only for re-opening of closed-as-duplicates. Example:

I'm voting to re-open this because:

[ ] This question is technically different than the proposed duplicate. Certain important aspects are not addressed: [ mandatory free text field ].
[ ] The proposed duplicate is currently of worse quality than the closed post.

Otherwise it would work just as the current system. Gold badge would instantly re-open, others would have to cast re-open vote. Perhaps in case of picking the latter option above, the proposed duplicate would get closed instead.

6
  • Meh. Ticking the box won't block this behavior. To be effective you'd have to remove unhammering AND make these part of the reopen process.
    – Machavity Mod
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:33
  • @Machavity Hence the mandatory free text field. They have to write down their reason. "I want more points" wouldn't look nice.
    – Lundin
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:35
  • Because messages like this are always informative?
    – Machavity Mod
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:40
  • This wouldn't prevent the abuse we saw in this example, since "Gold badge would instantly re-open".
    – Cerbrus
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:45
  • 1
    @Machavity Where did you get a screen shot of my SVN logs? :) Well, in case moderators suspect improper behaviour, they would at least be able to tell if the intention to do good was genuine or not. Similar to suggested edits, where someone vandalizes a post completely, then just leaves comment "improved formatting" though they didn't really touch formatting, or "improved grammer" where they actually made spelling and grammar far worse etc.
    – Lundin
    Nov 9, 2017 at 15:55
  • 2
    @Lundin The reason does nothing to help deal with abusive cases in such an example. There's still no way of knowing if the user actually thought they were improving the spelling, or if they just said that and were actually being abusive. Same here. They'll just say there are differences, whether or not there are any (that are meaningful).
    – Servy
    Nov 9, 2017 at 22:42

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .