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A lot of work is going into making new users ask better questions, and I can only applaud the effort. I'm still wondering though, what about "grandfathered" users who consistently show that they don't quite know what they're doing, who ignore or even get angry at comments asking for clarification and who time and again ask questions that have been asked before, or aren't really answerable, or scream "I don't know what I'm doing"?

The first time you encounter a question of theirs, it might be something like

  • How can I make a nail?

Someone who made a nail once or twice comes along, answers the question with some basic smithery advice and everyone happily buzzes along. Then a couple of hours later, a new question arises:

  • How can I straighten a bent nail?

And sure, someone knows how to do so, explains that, and the OP can continue on their project. A couple of hours later, or perhaps the next day, another question arises:

  • My shed collapsed, please advise me to make the best nails?

Then some other users get riled up, they go dig through the OP's asking history, explain the XY Problem and finally the OP accepts that they were simply looking to buy a box of screws so they could put up their "Build-a-Shed™" shed-in-a-box.

A week or so passes, the OP moves on to another project, and lo and behold, there's a new question:

  • Where can I dig up the best clay?

Here we go again. Someone answers with the locations of some high-quality clay deposits in their region, the OP goes to dig there and everyone is happy. A couple of hours later...

  • How can I make my fire colder?

Because their vase cracked while baking it. And so on, and so on, while in the end, they were looking for a bucket to carry some water from one place or another.

Of course these silly examples are just that; in reality these questions are generally, at least marginally, on-topic. They're just extremely badly researched, often duplicated by many others, and show that the OP doesn't really have a clue what they're doing.

In the meantime, for each problem they cause or encounter during their work day, they take away resources from tens if not hundreds of users who could've spent their time answering better, unique questions.

Those users have a problem, but they don't realize that. They lack a certain "knack" you'd expect an "enthusiast developer" to have, namely the drive to better themselves, to come here and actually learn something as opposed to getting a single roadblock out of the way only to come to a full stop again at the next block, and having to ask yet another question in which they don't show any research or understanding.

But if you dare comment and ask them what their end goal is, they go on Reddit and Hacker News and complain what a bunch of know-it-alls we are and how we think we know everything better than them, the enlightened ones who just want their damn question answered so they can continue with their important work.

I simply really, really want to slap some common sense into such people, preferably with the three pound book on Advanced Pottery, Volume II.

In my flagging history I now have around ten users who behave like that, and yesterday a small drama ensued here on Meta (question now deleted, of course) where another one which I never encountered before was furious that their 1600th (!) vague, one-liner question was closed as a duplicate and downvoted for being unclear.

Now my question is: what, if anything, should I do about such users? Should I keep flagging their questions and hope the moderators can maybe enlighten them by sending a moderator message? Or should I simply ignore their questions? Are there other options I overlooked?

Of course, I know I can downvote and close vote their questions when I "organically encounter them", but that feels like mopping with the tap open (lacking a better idiom).

This is not really a duplicate of What should we do about users who are proud to be help vampires?, because the accepted answer:

The correct method of dealing with any question which is off-topic, is to vote to close it. The correct method of dealing with any question which lacks research effort is to downvote it.

Does not work. So I'd rather consider this question to be a continuation of that one, because the question has not been satisfyingly answered.

The premise is also different. I'm not claiming these users willingly and knowingly act like a help vampire.

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  • 9
    In the olden days, Jeff Atwood used to encourage us to flag such users for moderator attention. I doubt whether that would lead anywhere these days, though. I think I flagged a couple once but nothing came out of it if I remember correctly. At least nothing visible.
    – Pekka
    Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:05
  • 13
    You'd think that after downvoting and closing questions where appropriate, the user would've gotten a question ban before reaching 1600 questions.
    – Erik A
    Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:07
  • 10
    We will happily message users who consistently ask low-quality questions in response to flags, but I don't think I've ever seen this result in enlightenment. Time to come up with some alternative suggestions on how to impart common sense?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:15
  • 10
    That user's behavior is an evolving story. This morning he decided to rage-quit and changed the accepted answer on many dozens of his questions, picking the worst junk post he got. Which is the usual way these users eventually hit the wall. They just don't last, albeit that he did a lot longer than normal. Whether that process can be shortcut, I seriously doubt it, resistance to good advice is a necessary character trait to get them into such a pickle. Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:16
  • 38
    But if you dare comment and ask them what their end goal is, they go on Reddit and Hacker News The real problem isn't that, it's all of the other SO users who say "how dare you question a legit question, I'm upvoting that because you're being so mean to someone who doesn't know better". I could care less about what Reddit thinks of me, it's the fact that these users are rewarded by the other SO users for posting this garbage, which lets them keep posting more of it.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:20
  • 8
    @CodeCaster The opposite of the "Summer of Love"? Let's call it the "Winter of Discontent" - in which we diss bad content :-) Not that it's going to happen. Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:25
  • 27
    Well removing the -1 cost of downvoting would help a bit. There are far too many people who refuse to downvote bad content just because it costs them a whole Imaginary Internet Point to do it.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:27
  • 7
    Maybe we should raise the bar for the upvote privilege - at least on SO. Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:32
  • 27
    I'm still getting over that some users complained about being capped at 10 questions a day. WTF? Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 13:59
  • 7
    @MartinJames Equally concerning is the users complaining about the 50 questions a month limit, or even those that just constantly hit it, even if they're not complaining about it.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 14:03
  • 10
    Also, the title of this questiion is... disturbing: Do we need to breed some common sense into users' - is it being suggested that we mate with them? Commented Oct 31, 2017 at 19:35
  • 17
    The times of "a site for professional and enthusiast programmers" are gone, this is what we have now, a day-care center for people who are just about to begin programming.
    – Teemu
    Commented Nov 1, 2017 at 7:44
  • 9
    @Brad I have noticed that this is not the most friendly community when you are trying to learn how to do something. you're right, and in an ideal world SO maybe would be fulfilling that role too. But the reality is, resources - people willing to answer questions for free while competent enough to do so well - are limited. Most competent answerers want interesting, somewhat higher level q's to remain engaged long term. This is bound to exclude newbies to some degree. Teaching how to learn & research something is a specialist job really - that of educators, book authors, course designers...
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 1, 2017 at 20:01
  • 17
    @Brad if it really were just a couple of people looking for a couple of minutes, sure. (And many of us frequently help out new users! We're nice people.) But in the big picture, there's tens of thousands of questions coming in every day, many of them of dismal quality or really trivial to Google. That is enough to paralyze any community. I'm not denying there is some genuine meanness or thoughtlessness in some users and comments around here sometimes, but much of the cold shoulder towards super basic stuff is just a community-wide defense mechanism that is essential for the place to survive.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 1, 2017 at 20:13
  • 8
    @Brad no, I'm specifically talking about users who don't disclose the actual problem they're trying to solve, but who instead ask a vague question every few hours for every small hurdle they encounter while trying to solve a larger problem, and who don't appear to have any trouble-solving or researching skills whatsoever. I'm talking about users who have asked hundreds or thousands of questions, and don't respond meaningfully to comments asking for clarification by users who objectively have more experience in the subject than them. They're outsourcing their learning process to Stack Overflow.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 1, 2017 at 21:27

1 Answer 1

5

A summary of the suggested options:

Ignore them

It is an option. Just don't give them any more attention than other users.

That being said, I only found around ten such users, but given they ask questions on a daily basis and I only follow a handful of tags, there are bound to be more of them, and I do think it's a problem that should be addressed in one way or another.

Downvote and close-vote bad questions

I already do that and expect everyone else to too, however the kind of user I mean are "too big to fail" or "grandfathered" out of a question ban.

Keep flagging such users when you encounter them on an asking spree

Doesn't feel very effective, but the modmessages that might result from this might enlighten them.

Change the question ban algorithm criteria

Granted a question ban yields the results we're looking for (namely fewer bad questions from repeat offenders), we could suggest a tweak to the question ban algorithm, for example letting it only consider the OP's most recently asked question in addition to the current criteria, and trigger if either would warrant a ban.

Rate limit for questions to increase again after a certain amount of questions

These users sometimes ask a question every couple of hours. This indicates they haven't researched or tried enough to solve their problem themselves. Limiting the rate at which they can ask questions could solve that, as it forces them to think longer before they can ask again.

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  • Or perhaps split this out in an answer per solution, so the community can vote?
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Nov 3, 2017 at 12:17
  • 1
    I would vote for "change the question ban algorithm criteria". It's clear that people can work themselves to a point where they are basically immune. It's a rare occurrence but the rarity of a problem does not say anything about how much damage can be done. If you repeatedly do wrong, you should be throttled. No exceptions, no immunities.
    – Gimby
    Commented Nov 6, 2017 at 15:53

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