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Who are the people declining and disputing flags? I recently flags 2 posts and 1 was disputed and the other was declined.

The one that was declined is a post that was marked as duplicate and I saw that it really wasn't a duplicate so I flagged it as needs moderators attention and I explained in the comment why it isn't a duplicate. The flag was declined. What did I do wrong? (The duplicate was removed while my flag was pending.)

The other that was disputed is one that I flagged as a duplicate. It is clearly a duplicate.

Shouldn't there be a way for me to communicate with the disputers or decliners and to explain to them my side?

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  • 8
    "What did I do wrong?" Don't call moderators for "normal" stuff. If a question isn't a dupe then its OP is responsible for explaining that. Or you vote to reopen when you have the necessary reputation (which you current don't have).
    – Tom
    Sep 19, 2017 at 19:43
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    disputed is caused by me choosing the opposite in an review queue of that you flagged for and declined is caused by a mod who sees no reason to act based on your flag.
    – rene
    Sep 19, 2017 at 19:45
  • Moderators aren't meant to be flagged for a post wrongly closed as duplicate. You can edit the post, which sends it to a reopen queue where the community can decide to reopen or not. A diamond mod should NOT be contacted for this. Diamond mods are "exception handlers". If the system can't let you help, THEN flag them. If not, go through the system :)
    – Patrice
    Sep 19, 2017 at 19:46
  • @Patrice - so basically, there is no way for me to let anyone know and to proof that something isn't a duplicate, correct?
    – isaace
    Sep 19, 2017 at 19:59
  • No, other users would see the post in the re-open queue. However, I strongly urge you to let the OP handle getting their question re-opened if it's been put on hold or marked as a duplicate. They know their own problem best. You can also leave comments explaining to the OP how they can clarify their question to get it re-opened.
    – BSMP
    Sep 19, 2017 at 20:20
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    Who are these people?
    – user1228
    Sep 19, 2017 at 20:49
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    For your disputed flag, that's one of the odd cases where you and two others flagged something as a duplicate, but Triage reviews invalidated those flags: stackoverflow.com/review/triage/17263288 . This is a situation that Triage is poorly equipped to handle, because when the reviewers stated that it was a good-looking question it wiped all close votes on the question. This should have instead gone into the close votes review queue. Maybe duplicate close votes should be immune from Triage review.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Sep 19, 2017 at 20:57
  • @BradLarson thank you for your comment. After getting 11 downvotes I finally have a comment with some validation to my frustration.
    – isaace
    Sep 19, 2017 at 21:00
  • After all, my flagging intentions are only to make stackoverflow answers better and more helpful. But I guess I am not big enough yet to be able to help.
    – isaace
    Sep 19, 2017 at 21:04
  • @isaace no, when you disagree something is a duplicate, you edit the question, making sure you make it clear in the question why it isn't a duplicate. Then, the question will be sent to the reopen queue, where people will check if it's a valid duplicate or not, and act accordingly.
    – Patrice
    Sep 19, 2017 at 21:18
  • @Patrice, thanks for the info. I will try to do that next time this happens.
    – isaace
    Sep 19, 2017 at 21:24
  • Maybe duplicate close votes should be immune from Triage review. @BradLarson I want to say there was a feature request for this floating around some place or at least a discussion about duplicates in Triage.
    – BSMP
    Sep 19, 2017 at 21:26
  • Oh... it's not @Olaf.. Sep 19, 2017 at 22:56
  • see also: How to oppose questions marked as duplicate
    – gnat
    Sep 20, 2017 at 10:12

2 Answers 2

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Broadly speaking, there are three possible resolution states for a flag:

  • "helpful" means that the flag was useful and correct. It often, although not necessarily, means that some action has been taken to correct the situation prompting the flag.
  • "disputed" means that the community disagreed with your flag, so no action was taken and the system essentially just disregards that you had ever raised the flag.
  • "declined" means that the flag was spurious, invalid, or otherwise inappropriate.

The first two of these can happen when your fellow community members review a post that has ended up in one of the queues as a result of your flag.

The first and last of these can happen when a diamond moderator processes one of your flags. (Moderators cannot generally "dispute" a flag, with spam or rude/abusive flags being the exception.)

Community members always review "needs to be closed" flags; moderators do not see these. Community members can also review "very low quality" and "not an answer" flags, but so can moderators. Other flag types are reviewed exclusively by moderators.

That's a broadly accurate summary of how it all works. There are some finer details, and some edge cases, that I've glossed over in the interest of simplicity. If you understand this, then that's really all you need to know.


So, what about the specific two flags that you raised?

The first one was a "needs to be closed" flag—in particular, a "possible duplicate" flag. Since our system considers marking a question as a duplicate to be a special case of closure, "possible duplicate" flags are treated as "needs to be closed" flags. Remember from above that "needs to be closed" flags are reviewed by other community members in the Close Votes review queue. (Access to this review queue is restricted to users with the privilege to cast close votes, for rather obvious reason.)

Under normal circumstances, what would happen is that your "possible duplicate" flag would put the question into the Close Votes review queue for that reason, and community members reviewing it would decide whether the question needed to be closed for the reason you flagged, or whether it should stay open. Depending on the result, your flag would either be marked "helpful" (they agreed, and the question was closed/marked as a duplicate), or "disputed" (they disagreed, and the question was left open).

Except…an edge case pops up here. We get so many "needs to be closed" flags that the Close Votes review queue is filled to the brim with far more flags than can be reasonably evaluated by the community. After a certain period of time of no activity, these flags are "aged away", so that's actually another possible flag resolution state. This possibility exists only for "needs to be closed" flags, since those are the only ones that moderators don't review. All other types of flags are guaranteed to be looked at by someone, and therefore get one of the three resolution states listed above in the summary description.

Unfortunately, another edge case hit you on this particular flag. Brad Larson already mentioned it in a comment. Rather than your "needs to be closed" flag sending the question to the Close Vote review queue as would normally happen, the majority of the community members who reviewed the post in the Triage review queue said it looked okay. That had the unfortunate side effect of clearing all pending "needs to be closed" flags, which is not necessarily the best of ideas anyway, but is especially incorrect for "possible duplicate" flags.

My thoughts on the matter aside, that is what actually happened in this case. Since the community disagreed with you when looking at the flagged post in a review queue (even though it was the "wrong" review queue), your flag was marked "disputed", as described in the summary.

Confused yet? Good.

The second flag you raised was one of the "requires moderator attention" flags, which give you a custom textbox to type into. As the name implies, these go directly to diamond moderators—they aren't subject to community review. As such, they cannot be "disputed"; a moderator either marks them as "helpful" or "declined".

Your flag argued that a question that had been closed as a duplicate was not, in your opinion, a duplicate. While you are entitled to that opinion, and while you may even be factually correct, a "requires moderator attention" flag is not the appropriate way to express that opinion. As such, your flag was declined by the moderator who processed it.

The "requires moderator attention" flags should be used only for things that actually require moderator attention. Getting a question re-opened does not require moderator attention because regular members of the community can do so. Furthermore, moderators are extremely disinclined to overrule expert community members who thought the question was a duplicate. We cannot be experts in all subjects covered on this site, so we can't make a good decision about whether duplicates should be re-opened. Trusted members of the community felt confident enough to mark it as a duplicate, so if you want it to be re-opened, you'll either need to convince the original voters that it is not a duplicate or convince a new set of trusted users that it is not a duplicate.

In general, the way to do that is to edit the question and provide a detailed explanation of why it is not a duplicate (in other words, how the question is materially distinct, and why the other answers are not relevant). Editing a post that has been closed (including closed as a duplicate) will place it into yet another review queue—the Reopen Vote review queue, which is the twin of the Close Vote review queue. Instead of community members with close-vote privileges deciding whether a question should be closed, they are deciding whether a question should be re-opened. This process works extremely well in practice, so there's hardly ever a need to subvert it.

If it doesn't work in a particular case, then you have a couple of additional options:

  1. You can comment on the affected question and try to plead your case with some of the users who voted to close the question. Maybe they missed something in their initial read, or maybe you know something more about it that they didn't. You may be able to persuade them to re-open, especially if combined with a clarifying edit.

    Please don't abuse this by getting into extended arguments with these people, though. If you go back and forth a couple of times, and can't agree, then just bow out. As I already said, you don't need the original close-voters to re-open it, so if it's just an impassable difference of opinion, then look elsewhere for help.

  2. As an option of last resort, you can come here to Meta and post a question. Use the , , and tags, and plead your case for why the specific question should be re-opened. If you can persuade 5 trusted users here on Meta, then the question can be re-opened. If you can't, well, you are either wrong about the question or you just have a very unpopular opinion. :-)

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In sequence...

The one that was declined is a post that was marked as duplicate and I saw that it really wasn't a duplicate so I flagged it as needs moderators attention and I explained in the comment why it isn't a duplicate.

Moderators do not unilaterally overturn duplicates. That's something the rest of us in the community do. Ideally, you'd want to start a Meta discussion about it here with the tags , and talk about why it isn't a duplicate.

Note that you have to be very convincing. By making a point of saying that this isn't a duplicate, the burden of proof lies on you to convince the rest of us that this really isn't a duplicate.

Next...

The other that was disputed is one that I flagged as a duplicate. It is clearly a duplicate.

Someone took action on the question which caused the system to disagree with your flag. Disputed flags are harmless; they don't count for or against you. I wouldn't read too much into it outside of that.

Shouldn't there be a way for me to communicate with the disputers or decliners and to explain to them my side?

As outlined above, if you're going to make a request to reopen a duplicate, there's an established procedure for doing that. Otherwise, there's no real way to talk to anyone else about why they may dispute or decline flags, which is largely okay. If you really are confused as to why your flag was declined, again, feel encouraged to make a Meta post about the flag raised.

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  • so basically there is no way for me to let anyone know and to proof that something isn't a duplicate, correct?
    – isaace
    Sep 19, 2017 at 19:57
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    @isaace: ...if you want to ignore the part where I said, "Create a Meta post here and prove it", then no, there's no way for you to let anyone know and prove that a question isn't a duplicate.
    – Makoto
    Sep 19, 2017 at 20:00
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    @Makoto Even if you do ignore that section, there's the specific guidance that the close reason itself states, which is to edit the question to further clarify it, demonstrating that it's no longer a duplicate.
    – Servy
    Sep 19, 2017 at 21:09

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