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As of now one of the ways to perform a point-free aggressive action against a poster is to flag the post as a duplicate leaving one more avenue that opens the system to abuse. There should be a speed-bump placed in the way of flagging questions as duplicate to force a bit of thoughtful consideration as to the validity of the duplicate -- which in many cases is open to interpretation.

I acknowledge that there is a quorum established for closure, however, regardless of closure the question is still marked as duplicate which can be seen as rewarding a would-be malicious user. The speed-bump I propose is to make the initial dupe-flag cost one or two points. This will stop the potential for a large portion of unwarranted random dupe-flagging, but not prevent valid dupe-flagging by thoughtful users who are concerned about the quality of questions.

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  • 19
    And you try it again?? I believe there's already a FR to award points for successfully closed dupes.
    – user0042
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 15:49
  • 51
    Closing as duplicate is not an aggressive action against a poster. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 15:51
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    People don't randomly dupe-flag. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 15:53
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    Is the initial flag random? What if the user casting it knows it's a dupe and is doing exactly what they should be doing - closing a duplicate question?
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 15:53
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    We're not going to penalize users by removing reputation for flagging or closing posts as a duplicate. If a question is not a duplicate, then it won't be closed or it will be reopened.
    – Taryn
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 15:55
  • 30
    Here we go again. The people who disagree with you are "Aggressive", "abuse", "malicious", the ones that agree with you are "thoughtful users", "concerned about the quality of questions". Ridiculous, again.
    – Clive
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 15:57
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    This didn't go well the last time you proposed this, just 2 days ago. What makes you think the community is more receptive this time round? You have failed to even begin to build a case as to why this is needed. Can you please provide some form of concrete proof that a large number of posts are unjustly (even randomly) being flagged as duplicates, to the detriment of the site? Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:16
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    @misspeller: if you actually see an abusive duplicate flag, you flag the post for moderator attention. We have other avenues for abuse, and it's almost always trivially solved by having the moderators deal with the abuse. Now, unless you have evidence that this problem is widespread, we are not going to put a speedbump before users help keep the site tidy. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:23
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    @misspeller: "Potential abusers" are irrelevant. The only thing that matters are actual abusers. Until "potential" becomes "actual", the matter is moot. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:35
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    @Hugo OP is here for an argument, nothing more. Providing proof, or more realistically admitting that there isn't any, would help this to come a conclusion, which they don't want.
    – Clive
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:54
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    @misspeller: "It's hard to prove intent. All we can do is deal with the loop-holes, of which I argue this is one." It's hard to believe you when you're on record as saying that you believe closing any question as a duplicate is "insulting to the user unless they clearly consent". Since you believe that maintenance of our site constitutes de-facto aggression, it's kind of hard not to see your suggestion as a way to get people to stop doing something you don't think they should be doing, rather than a genuine effort to stop real, harmful abuse. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:58
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    You know, as someone who dupe closes a fair bit, I'd actually be fine with a point or two for a mistaken closure, provided the asker also has something on the line. But I really don't think it would be worthwhile. All this nonsense about it being malicious and aggressive is offensive, though.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 17:45
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    No! We petty 2k users are downvoting as well!! Don't exclude us from the action!
    – yivi
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:02
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    "I have learned that there are multiple ways to cause harm with impunity." Or as most other regulars would say "The system doesn't penalize users who are trying to maintain the quality standards."
    – Jon Skeet
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:29
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    The reason Stack is a great site (as opposed to, say Yahoo answers) is BECAUSE we moderate aggressively. Again, you see it as "against the user base" and not "for the content" which is what it is. Get rid of the ego, and that'll fare better. In any case I think it's clear by now your suggestions aren't in line with what the community thinks. So either prove your point to get a REAL discussion started, or realize you won't change that behavior you seem to loathe so much, and learn to live with it.
    – Patrice
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 23:50

3 Answers 3

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There should be a speed-bump placed in the way of flagging questions as duplicate to force a bit of thoughtful consideration as to the validity of the duplicate -- which in many cases is open to interpretation.

There is. You have to provide a link.

That's more of a speed bump than exists for any other close reason.

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    15 minutes, 3 moderators active in a thread, why wasn't this yet another non constructive attempt to start a rant removed yet?
    – BrakNicku
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:06
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    I'm on my phone doing other things and disinclined to put more effort into this question.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:08
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    @BrakNicku - If we delete complaints about the site, we run the risk of looking like we're censoring dissenting opinions. Sometimes it's best to sit back and have the community counter the arguments being made. If things proceed on to trolling, insults, or otherwise get out of control, then we can step in. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:32
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    @BradLarson I do not have access to deleted meta posts, but I think it's at least 3rd same post from the same user. Same result - tons of downvotes and a flame. Some users enjoy it and say it's time to watch and open popcorn, but could this bring anything constructive?
    – BrakNicku
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:39
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    @BrakNicku if anything it is at least a refreshing topic instead of the require a comment on down vote ones. I'm out of popcorn ...
    – rene
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:50
  • @rene that explains why you missed a chance to add highly upvoted comment this time
    – BrakNicku
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 16:54
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    It's also nice to have dupe targets for this kind of complainggestion, so the flames die down a little faster next time around, @BrakNicku.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 17:41
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    -1 disagree, link is not enough of a speed bump. I demand that there was an upvoted or accepted answer at that link! Oh wait...
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 30, 2017 at 8:52
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Closing a question as a duplicate (usually) already imposes a reputation penalty.

Speaking from experience, in many cases, it would not only be quicker and easier to post an answer, but (as long as the question wasn't too spectacularly terrible) would be a lot more likely to gain up-votes. Linking a duplicate can gain a couple of up-votes, but on average you don't gain much (even if you provided the accepted answer to the question you linked).

Doing a quick calculation, it looks like when I vote to close a question as a duplicate (or close it single-handedly), I'm not only doing extra work, but also losing an average of around 40 points of reputation.

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    So... Duplicate closing is an "opportunity cost" but with rep... I like it!
    – Patrice
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 22:26
  • Also, there's already a rep cost: You have to have oodles of it in order to be able to ban-hammer.
    – sehe
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 23:18
  • I would add that for dupehammers penalty should be even worse because when regular user votes it hangs for a while and other readers check their comment and link and some of them may vote. But when there is hammer vote it closes immediately so that only asker is interested in visiting and many askers don't even have enough rep for upvote. Add that for gold tag bagde holders it is by definition easy to answer in "their" tags and one starts wondering why they are so active in doing this (stats here say about 30K hammer closes in 90 days)...
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 30, 2017 at 7:02
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    ...I only can guess some sort of intrinsic motivation at work there: when they know that question has been already thoroughly answered elsewhere the fast and sure way to help asker is to redirect them to duplicate (yes this doesn't bring rep but this helps people)
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 30, 2017 at 7:02
17

Your last post here was deleted, so I'm going to assume that you are referring to this question: How to check if I have write permissions to an Oracle table

I think the below points apply here:

  1. Stack Overflow is not a code writing service
  2. Having multiple questions asking about the same thing is not helpful for future readers because there would be thousands of same questions with one small difference based on each situation.

NOTE NOT A DUPLICATE. EVIDENCE: The suggested answer by mathguy does not contain the specific SQL that answers my question. There is no SQL found in that answer that specifically gives me a binary (e.g. yes/no) answer to whether I (first person) have access to a given table. FURTHERMORE, the duplicate question itself is ambiguous as to who (is it an admin or regular user?) is executing the SQL. That is why I specifically said "check my privileges" not check anyone's privileges.

It is a duplicate because the solution is the same for everyone, but it needs to be applied to your situation by you. Like mentioned already, most users here don't provide answers for users that have made no attempt to solve the problem as your original post shows.

As of now the only way to perform a point-free aggressive action against a poster is to flag the post as a duplicate leaving the system open to abuse.

No, there are many flags and none of them deduce points, from users that are raising the flag, when used on questions. I would have flagged your question as "too broad" because you made no attempt.

I acknowledge that there is a quorum established for closure, however, regardless of closure the question is still marked as duplicate which can be seen as rewarding a would-be malicious user.

No one gets a points reward for flagging. There are only some badges that can be earned. On the other hand, users can get a flag ban if they incorrectly flag too many posts.

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    Oh, they added that notice back. How unfortunate.
    – Makoto
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 17:17
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    "there are many flags and none of them deduce points" - Spam and offensive flags cast automatic downvotes. The vote is removed if the flag is declined. Of course, the moderators will notice pretty quick if you're abusing those flags. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:09
  • @AndrewMyers downvotes on questions don't get a -1 in reputation, just on asnwers
    – tima
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:12
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    But once more, none of the various close vote reasons/flags are aggressive actions against the poster. Downvoting is not an aggressive action against the poster. No one even cares who the poster is. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:13
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    @tima Sorry, I misunderstood what you were saying there. I thought you meant flags don't change the OP's rep (as in, "quit worrying about people destroying your rep by flagging you"). Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:19
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    @Don'tPanic "No one even cares who the poster is" Great. Now they can stop feeling injured and go back to being generally depressed... Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 18:22
  • @Don'tPanic 13 downvotes is however.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 22:38
  • @YvetteColomb To what are you referring? Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 22:42
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    @DOn'tPanic the OP has been getting a LOT of downvotes on the main site after posting here. He is likely aggravating some people that take revenge on him by downvoting his main stuff. THAT is an aggressive behavior against him (and I assume what Yvette was alluding to)
    – Patrice
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 23:01
  • @Don'tPanic to a downvoter/flagger given to a malicious nature, the poster may be anonymous but that doesn't make him/her less than a person.
    – user2066936
    Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 23:05
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    Ah, I see. I hadn't visited the OP's profile. Yeah, revenge downvoting is an aggressive action against the poster. It's inappropriate and childish, it's strongly discouraged here, and I'm sorry to hear that it's happening. But it's also not the normal case. I'm referring to the general case of people voting on content as they encounter it while normally browsing the site. They don't care who you are. They're just going to vote on the post. Commented Aug 29, 2017 at 23:16
  • @Don'tPanic yep I was referring to the linked question in this answer.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 30, 2017 at 2:01
  • @Patrice yep that's what I was referring to - it's the meta effect and it's really childish as Don't Panic said.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 30, 2017 at 2:07
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    Yes - in cases like this, where I 100% disagree with the OP, I will not even bother looking at their questions so I have a shield against 'revenge downvoting' allegations. I don't like it, and I don't do it. Commented Aug 30, 2017 at 10:35

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