103

The Definitive C Book Guide and List was a project I once liked and supported.

However, over time I started to realize how bad and harmful that post really is. The main issue with it is the community-maintained format. This works for factual, specific programming topics. Not so much for subjective, opinion-based book recommendations.

Anyone can and will add any random book, out of the blue. There are no rules. For example there was a case where we strongly suspected that the author of a C book had added his own book on top of the list.

As a result, the list is... a list of books. Good books, bad books, mediocre books, language standards, standard rationales, coding guidelines, non-C related books. Basically, the conclusion of the whole book list is "there exists C books and also some other books" and nothing more.

Then of course the whole post was always unsuitable for SO. It is mostly just opinion-based recommendations. It doesn't follow the usual Q&A style. In fact it doesn't follow anything - it is just an arbitrary book discussion.

The post had all these problems since many years. But now the whole post was recently merged into one single "super recommendation" list, containing everything that was ever posted there, for good and bad. This includes things that are not even recommendations, but anti-recommendations.


What I would like to bring up for discussion is this:

  1. Can we please delete this whole post? It is likely that it does more harm than good.

    I don't have high hopes of this happening, but now at least I made the plea for it. I know from previous experience that SO likes to preserve crap in favour for site traffic, even when there is community consensus for deletion. That's what happened when I tried to get the horrible "list of random books" post deleted.

  2. If the post is allowed to exist, then how can we guarantee any form of quality? The current quality is very low.

    One way to achieve this would be to let every book have its corresponding community wiki answer. Users could then vote up or down if they believe that the book belongs on the list or not. Let books with lets say for example a +50 positive score make it to the list. Each book can still have a category like now: reference level, beginner, intermediate, expert.

    This way we would also get anti-recommendations sorted automatically. Quality concerns or praise could be posted as comments.

    And what about language standards? Arguably, one should never recommend a book which is not up to date with the language. Should we require that all books on the list must at least be semi-modern and address ?

  3. Should we allow anti-recommendations? What makes a book qualify for anti-recommendations?

    I think mankind would probably benefit from this, but probably not SO. There would be conflicts. Currently there are just two anti-recommendations and these two books are quite infamous - so far so good.

    But what if someone would for example like to make an anti-recommendation against K&R? Lots of very valid critique has been raised against that book and it has an extensive errata. It is of course also completely outdated. However, the book has countless fans and this would surely spark some heated edit war.

    And what about horrible internet tutorials? Many SO users frequently make anti-recommendations against such tutorials. (Most notably, tutorialspoint.com and Harvard CS-50 have poor reputations.)


UPDATE:

In order to finally reach some resolution of this matter, I have as of 29/1 flagged the post for diamond mod deletion, as per community consensus below (currently 51 for deletion, 18 against). This was my custom flag reason:

Please delete this whole thread, as per majority vote here: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/355588/…. People keep pointing at this list, incorrectly thinking it is list of recommended books. The post is not maintained, nor is there enough users willing to maintain it. If moderators/staff do not wish to delete it for whatever reason, please raise an argument in the linked meta discussion.

(The link being this very post.)


UPDATE 2:

As part of Deleted question audit 2018, the list was undeleted by moderators without any prior discussion on meta.

It is still as much haywire as it was at the point of deletion. We are back on square one.

If we are to keep this list, we must set the quality bar much higher! I'd like to open up discussion about how moderation of the list should work, what the procedure for adding a book should be and quality criteria.

29
  • 8
    Context: I made the format match the C++ book list. As bad as this is, the old presentation was even worse. Although there were separate answers, the question was locked, so no new answers could be added, which prevented any meaningful maintenance. You are welcome to edit it and maintain it like the C++ community does, or we can delete it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 13:33
  • 1
    @CodyGray I realize that you haven't touched the actual content. The original purpose was to have people vote for/against recommendations though. I believe that plenty of those answers should just have been deleted.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 13:38
  • 4
    That may have been the original purpose, but that purpose hadn't been served since at least August 1, 2013, when the question was locked. Locking prevents voting. Yes, I think several of the answers probably should have been deleted, too, but I was trying to separate acting as a moderator from acting as a C programmer. My hope was that the community would step up and delete what they didn't want to be there.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 13:40
  • 26
    Unlike the C++ book list, if you don't have a group of people willing to maintain it on a regular basis to remove any not good books then it should probably be scrapped. The C++ one works because we have the people willing to do this and that is really the only reason it continues to be allowed Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 13:41
  • 18
    I'm not a big fan of the whole thing, but I particularly don't like the "anti-recommendations." The one knocking Herb Schildt's book doesn't really give any supporting reason. (I've never read any of his books, so I have no idea if they're bad or good.) At least Amazon gives you a breakdown on customer reviews, so you can often go find out why someone gave a bad review (like thinking they were getting a C++ book, for example). Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 13:51
  • 11
    @BilltheLizard That's also what makes these book recommendations so questionable: the people who make recommendations (or anti recommendations) don't have to leave any rationale. We don't even know if they have read the book. Indeed this whole thing would be better off at book sites like Amazon.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 14:23
  • 27
    Someone forgot to NUL-terminate the list. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 15:36
  • 3
    @BilltheLizard: Some reviews of Schildt's books: The Annotated Annotated C Standard, C: The Complete Nonsense Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 18:15
  • 6
    I thought tag-wiki was the place to collect such information! Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 18:23
  • 5
    Oh wow. This belongs in the FAQ as the answer to the gazillion "Hey we really should do recommendations, what could possibly go wrong?" Meta questions. This was the one shining example of a recommendation question that supposedly worked because the community cared.
    – Pekka
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 22:22
  • 5
    @Pekka Don't confuse the C list with the C++ list.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 23:59
  • 1
    Then there are books that I wouldn't really recommend anyone to read for learning purposes. "Object-oriented Programming with ANSI-C" is such a book. Horrible obfuscation and the book layout is weird. Yet it fills a purpose somehow, demonstrating (obfuscated) ways to do OO in C. It can be good reading for C veterans but not for anyone else. Similarly, "Safer C" by Les Hatton (not on the list) is a real boring read - it's more of a scientific report than a book, yet it is very important as it contains formal proof over what's bad and dangerous practice - MISRA-C was heavily influenced by it.
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 7:07
  • 2
    @NathanOliver The criticsm still stands: that "group of people" are the unelected arbiters of what is a good book and what is not.
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 7:51
  • 3
    @NathanOliver But who is to say that the book choices of the C++ group are good, and of the C group are bad? It is subjective and there is no unanimous consensus. Point being is that your argument to keep the C++ list because the selection it ended up with match your individual opinion of the good books, but scrap the C book list because you believe the selection is bad, is a bad argument.
    – DBedrenko
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 12:05
  • 1
    @Lundin: I agree that K&R needs to be treated with some caution, but I don't think it should be removed yet. The verbiage after it makes clear that there are some issues — and its release data makes it clear that it is not discussing C99 let alone C11. On LCTHW, I reserve judgement until I've had a chance to read it — but I did note both the compliments and the dismissive commentary, and concluded that I didn't know which side won (so I didn't remove it from the list, though I was tempted). Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 14:44

6 Answers 6

22

This question is off-topic, and has been off-topic for a long time. Let's delete it.

Furthermore, we don't need a list of C books. Everyone knows that there is only one C book, and only one C++ book.

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  • 26
    The 'one C book' is no longer necessarily the best one to use — there are parts of it that no longer work (Unix has changed since 1989), and the language has been extended twice since 1989. And there are definitely other C books that are worth having (C: A Reference Manual, 5th Edn is one such). It's complex. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 18:57
  • 7
    There should be at least 4 C++ books, one for each standard. A C++98 based book and a C++14 based book will look quite different. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 19:05
  • 3
    @NathanOliver: C++98 book is 3rd edition and C++14 book is 4th edition. Still, same book.
    – myaut
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 10:04
  • 2
    which c++ book do you have in mind? I hope its not the B.S.one?
    – lalala
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 20:18
  • 7
    @lalala et al. the last part of the answer is a questionable joke, and for the purpose of the answer it does not really matter, but yes it's B.S. and K&R books that I have in mind. They say some parts of K&R book do not work any more because Unix has changed - what a shame, someone should fix Unix ASAP (see I can't resist making bad jokes).
    – artem
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 21:45
  • 2
    If you're not being sarcastic, please specify what you personally believe the one and only C book and C++ book are. Even if a strong consensus has been reached by the C/C++ community, that still leaves some of the developer community in general, as well as some folks that are entering into the developer community. Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 21:46
  • Here is my problem with the joke: while I think K&R is still a useful and good book, the B.S. book I have in mind (the c++ programming language), is in my opinion one of the worst books for c++ and I think it shd be warned against unless you are already an advanced c++ programmer. If the book would be on the same instructural level as K&R your answer would actually been good and witty.
    – lalala
    Commented Aug 26, 2017 at 6:07
  • 2
    The one-and-only C book is the C11 standard. The one-and-only C++ book is either the C++14 standard or the C++17 standard, depending on the current date.
    – o11c
    Commented Aug 26, 2017 at 21:08
  • You have never asked or answered a C question.
    – alain
    Commented Aug 26, 2017 at 21:57
  • 1
    @alain yes, because I am answering questions here when I need to learn or evaluate relatively new language or technology. I learned C long time ago.
    – artem
    Commented Aug 26, 2017 at 22:24
  • The post has now been deleted. Setting this as accepted answer, it seems to be community consensus.
    – Lundin
    Commented Mar 29, 2018 at 11:33
  • 1
    @o11c Those are both not books and not good learning material, like, at all. Commented Oct 18, 2018 at 13:31
  • 4
    I find it ironic that I got K&R C to learn C from after reading all the recommendations of it by the C community on Stack Overflow, and then when I first came across something in it that seemed to not make sense given my limited modern knowledge of C and asked about it, it ended up being my most-downvoted SO question ever and I was advised to stop using an obsolete book as learning material. Y'all are remarkably divided on whether it's still a good resource.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jan 3, 2019 at 12:23
  • @MarkAmery Your question brought attention to a careless remark made by otherwise respectable authors - probably that's the reason the people did not like the question. I think the book is still a good resource but you have to use your own judgement to discern good examples from careless remarks.
    – artem
    Commented Jan 3, 2019 at 15:25
  • @artem The remark merely seems obsolete to me, not careless.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jan 3, 2019 at 15:39
16

The C++ book list is sometimes brought up as an example, when someone tries to defend why their opinion-based shopping list question should be allowed.

The problem with this is: the C++ book list is an exception. And it is not allowed to survive because we are in the habit of making exceptions (if exceptions become a habit, they are rules, not exceptions!), it is allowed to survive, because despite being off-topic it is of exceptionally high quality, and actively, painstakingly maintained and curated by an exceptionally dedicated group of people, which makes it worthwhile to have a historic exception for this list.

The C book list isn't. Period.

4
  • What you say make me think about the initial goal of SE : reducing the ration of noise/information on the internet. Considering the amount of books considered bad by our C++ experts, that's definitively interesting. The problem is that unlike any other questions, if everyone was voting the book they red, that won't really bring which book is better, but maybe the -faster to read and print hello world by only focusing on bad but "working code"-. Maybe having another format like "what is bad/good in book X" would be better, but still pro/cons question are hard to get objectives.
    – Walfrat
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 11:30
  • 9
    Maybe we should catch the exception.
    – Almo
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 12:57
  • 1
    @Walfrat there's a site specifically designed to deal with those problems slant.co/topics/249/~best-resources-for-a-beginner-to-learn-c
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 13:10
  • @Braiam as I said in my last coment, number of upvotes/downvotes are not likely to reflect the quality of the book, whatever it is on SO or another site, so I wouldn't pay too much attention to that.
    – Walfrat
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 13:12
13

Cody Gray has made 'the answer' to The C Definitive C Book Guide and List more or less match the The Definitive C++ Book Guide and question and answer — thank you.

From here on, the onus is on the C community to keep an eye on the post to see who edits it and what was changed, and to moderate those changes (rollback, revise, whatever is appropriate). This is, as I understand it, what happens with the C++ book question. Those who care keep an eye on the question and deal with undesirable changes. (I do keep an eye on changes, usually every month or two, but there hadn't been very many changes to warrant more frequent attention. For the next few weeks, I'll need to look more frequently.)

Informed commentary from personal experience on the books is invaluable and missing from many of the books. I can't annotate many of the beginner books — it's been a while since I was last a beginner in C (and my choices were limited; K&R 1st Edn was pretty much "it", but that was A Good Thing™), so I don't have copies of many of them. I suppose Amazon second-hand books might help: if they cost a lot second-hand, they're probably reasonable; if they're cheap, they probably aren't. It's only a guideline, not a definitive rule.

14
  • Is that community willing to expend ginourmous efforts to do this? I mean, someone(s) need to be on top of that question like a hawk. Also, cleaning a mess is a chore.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 20:34
  • 8
    @Braiam did you miss... like, the whole answer? We don't need the entire community to stand up and say "I'll monitor it like a hawk", we just need some people to take a look at the changes every now and again, updating and moderating as necessary.
    – user4639281
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 20:37
  • 3
    @Braiam: qualify 'ginormous'? I've worked on the list on occasion over a number of years. As I stated, I plan to keep a fairly close eye on it in the immediate future, and a casual eye on it as events (edits) seem to warrant. If there was an SO-provided mechanism to get notified when a particular question or answer that you're interested in (but did not write) is modified, that would help. It'll be a whole heap easier now there's just one answer to edit. I've ordered a copy of one of the negatively reviewed books (that also has positive reviews) to see what I make of it. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 20:38
  • "qualify 'ginormous'?" Some term one would expect a certain someone to come up with. It sounded like strenuously big when it came up with the term.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 20:43
  • 3
    @Braiam: From where I'm sitting, Cody's changes made the situation manageable. When there were 30+ answers, it was hard to see the wood for the trees, and single down-votes make little difference. Building up the momentum to get a more coordinated down-voting ring to deal with them is hard work — and probably breaks (in spirit if not letter) SO rules. Now it can be managed. Given the rate of change (22 revisions in 7.5 years on this answer — and 6 of those are by me), it hasn't been a ginormous problem keeping up. […continued…] Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 20:49
  • 3
    […continuation…] If two or three other people (experienced C programmers) also make a commitment (mentally, not necessarily publicly) to keep an eye on the Q&A, it can be kept in reasonable shape without much difficulty. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 20:50
  • That's the thing, it should be public. Without proper commitment with all its bells and whistles it's yet another "maybe we should probably do something about this"
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 22:54
  • 1
    @Braiam: AFAIK, the C++ books question has no public commitment from 'the community' (what would that mean) or any specific individuals in the community to maintain it. I've voluntarily given a public commitment (backed up, I believe, by past history) to help maintain the C books question, but can't and won't demand that of anyone else. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 22:58
  • 3
    I was afraid my revisions to the question might stir up some controversy... Still, I think this is a productive discussion to be had, so kudos to Lundin for bringing it up. I was looking for somewhere I could solicit community interest in maintaining it, but I didn't know where an appropriate place might be. There's a C++ chat room where many of the maintainers of the C++ book list hang out, but I never convinced myself it would be appropriate to bring up a C book list there. :-) I don't have a strong opinion on keeping or deleting it, but I'm happy to argue for it if you want to maintain it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 1:18
  • 2
    @CodyGray: I'm not sure that those who frequent the C++ chat room would have had much sympathy for the C book list — so I agree that it probably wouldn't have been a good place to bring it up. I don't frequent the C chat room. (Is there one? I think I may have visited it once or twice, but I'm not a regular in any of the chat rooms, and I could be misremembering.) I think the list has some merit — and more so since its surroundings have been cleaned up. I've said I'll help maintain it, solo or with or whatever aid is available, announced or not. Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 4:30
  • There is a C chat but not as active as the C++ lounge. I don't think there's enough recurring members there to maintain a book list - there weren't even enough there to spark interest in putting together a C FAQ/list of canonical duplicates (I ended up doing one pretty much solo, can be found at the C tag wiki).
    – Lundin
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 6:51
  • 1
    @Lundin The Lounge<C++> has been keeping an eye on the book list for some time, but now that it's slowly decaying in popularity, I'm afraid that the C++ list can face similar problems. Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 10:21
  • @Lundin well, that call never reached me it seems ;) Commented Jan 5, 2019 at 22:45
  • I'm not sure, @Lundin, how often I've been to the 'C chat' room — I believe it is zero, it might be as many as one or two. I hardly ever frequent any of the other chat rooms; they're completely peripheral to how SO works AFAIAC. I use chat rooms to deal with specific conversations where the comment list for a question or answer gets long enough to make it a good idea not to continue the discussion in comments; otherwise, I don't "use chat" for most practical purposes. Commented Jan 5, 2019 at 22:52
5

UPDATE 2:

As part of Deleted question audit 2018, the list was undeleted by moderators without any prior discussion on meta.

It is still as much haywire as it was at the point of deletion. We are back on square one.

If we are to keep this list, we must set the quality bar much higher! I'd like to open up discussion about how moderation of the list should work, what the procedure for adding a book should be and quality criteria.


Moderation

The main reason the list was deleted was the lack of moderators. If we are to keep the list, we need people to "sign up" and say that they will actively moderate the list.

Perhaps keep a list? We could create a separate C chat for discussion about book recommendations specifically. And a separate meta thread with votes and discussions about specific books, so that there is a documented reason why a book deserves to be mentioned. Ideally, there should be a consensus among several "book moderators" before a book is added or removed.

Proposed moderator prerequisites:

  • The moderator has actually read several C books.
  • gold badge
  • Full edit privileges

Quality criteria

  • Been read. No book gets added without several people recommending it, who have actually read the book. The whole book, not just initial chapters.
  • About C programming. The topic of the book must be the C language itself. Not books about algorithm theory, puzzles, operative systems etc that happen to use C.
  • Technically accurate. The book must not teach incorrect C. It must not teach silent reliance on poorly-defined behavior without disclaimers. It must not teach non-standard language extensions without explicitly labelling them as such.
  • Complete. The book needs to cover most of the C language, not just some parts. This rules out technical papers, blog articles etc.
  • English. The list will only cover books written in/translated to English.
  • Impartial recommendations. Authors, publishers or other partial parties may not recommend their own books.

Then there are subjective aspects such as pedagogy, nature of code examples, easy to read language, humour etc. These aren't easily measurable but should be taken in account by the person recommending the book.


Format and cathegorization

There are two major problems with the present format.

First, it doesn't take book age in acount. C is a very mature language that has been around forever. Standards with new language revisions have been published at several occasions. Older books may not be relevant any longer.

Second, there is little value of recommending books/things that can only be used as reference material but not for studying, for whatever reason. This is an indication that something is wrong.

Maybe the book had historical impact but is now hopelessly outdated. Maybe the book is not actually a book but the 700 pages long, pain-to-read ISO standard (SO maintains a list of ISO standards elsewhere, Where do I find the current C or C++ standard documents?). Maybe it isn't a complete book. Maybe it is "easy to carry around" but otherwise of unknown quality. Etc.

The proposed format is therefore to remove "reference level" and to sort books according to claimed C standard compliance, and then in order of target audience (beginner, intermediate, expert). Example:

C11/C18

Beginner

  • Hello world by S. Scanf (2012). ISBN: 1234

Intermediate

  • Another C Book by F. Gets (2015). ISBN: 1234
  • Yet Another C Book by S. Fault (2016). ISBN: 1234

Expert

  • Strict aliasing ate my neighbours by L. Lawyer (2014). ISBN: 1234

C99

Beginner
...


C90/C95

Beginner
...

Books not mentioning which standard they cover should probably not be on the list.

If the book is free and available on the Internet, we should link to it. If not, there is no reason to post URLs to online book stores. Such links are doomed to die, and would also favour one particular book store. Instead post the ISBN number.


Blacklist

The current list contains a small blacklist with anti-recommendations. SO is constantly under the burden of re-teaching programmers who have been taught bad and incorrect practices, by bad books and tutorials. Maintaining a blacklist would benefit students, SO users and authors of quality books.

Just as for book recommendations, anti-recommendations must come from people who have read enough of the book to dismiss it. Authoritative reviews by well-known domain experts can also be used as reason. Also keep in mind that many books do have publisher errata.

This should also be a place to anti-recommend questionable Internet tutorials or online classes.

13
  • 5
    Oh god, no. This is Stack Overflow, not BookReviews Overflow.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2019 at 13:32
  • 2
    @Braiam Big Brother disagrees and yet again undeleted a deleted book recommendation post, yet again unanimously without any prior discussion. To understand this, you have to use doublethink. It is true that Stack Overflow is a programming site where book and other recommendations are completely off-topic. But it is also true that book recommendations are fine, encouraged and on-topic. May I interest you in some self-realization books?
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 31, 2019 at 13:39
  • I prefer to issue ultimatums. If we continue kicking the can down the road nothing will ever improve. BTW, the only reason why it was undeleted is because C++ list is undeleted, not because the C is good. If the C list was kept deleted that would give people reasons to delete the C++. Selfpreservation is a strong motivator.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2019 at 14:11
  • BTW, "George Orwell created the word doublethink in his dystopian novel", I think that's a word that we need to know and avoid.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jan 31, 2019 at 14:11
  • Anyway, this boils down to: either we set actual quality standards for this book list and have several active moderators. Otherwise the book list should be deleted.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 31, 2019 at 14:28
  • 1
    Observation — there was discussion on Meta about undeleting the 'Definitive C Book Guide and List'; my answer to the Deleted question audit 2018 garnered quite a lot of attention, and a fair number of up-votes (and some down-votes, but not as many down-votes as up-votes). Commented Feb 4, 2019 at 22:50
  • I have currently got "Let Us C" and "Programming in C" to read and review. It's a little irksome that the secondhand copy of P in C that I've got is misconstructed, with pages 103-150 missing, but a second copy of pages 31-78 in place instead. I plan to update the recommendation status of those two books in due course. I've already updated a fair number of the other books, ensuring that there's a date against all of them (I believe – accidents happen). I also recently removed some books from view that were not specifically about C, or not sufficiently about C. Commented Feb 4, 2019 at 23:12
  • The URLs are useful, IMO. I like to use smile.amazon.com links (which have 'smile' in place of 'www'; they're otherwise identical) to encourage people to think about getting Amazon to give to a charity of their choice (not my choice). The www links are mapped by SO into something that benefits them when a user clicks on it. When there's a site for a book, I recommend linking to that site rather than Amazon. I've no major problem with ISBN, though we're in a transition period where some have ISBN-10 (only) and some have ISBN-13 (too; I've not seen any with ISBN-13 and without ISBN-10). Commented Feb 5, 2019 at 0:47
  • I have no problem with the "moderator" pre-requisites. People can/will add books (or delete them); the moderator team then has to assess who added what, and whether they agree. I don't know whether a moderator chat room would be appropriate. Whether and how we record who approves additions is open to discussion; the edit log does give that information, I suppose. At the moment, there are some commented out book entries (mostly commented out by me); they'll eventually need to be fully removed as the article is getting quite long (just over 18 KiB at the moment; there's time…). Commented Feb 5, 2019 at 1:02
  • Create a subreddit r/CBookListFTW so people can make posts for book suggestions which can be voted on. Enough votes means a book is added/removed depending on what was discussed. Am I joking? I'm not exactly sure...
    – Gimby
    Commented Feb 5, 2019 at 14:19
  • @Gimby No it should be handled in a meta thread on-site. But it is true that book recommendations are off-topic on SO, so it might get deleted as off-topic...
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 5, 2019 at 14:29
  • I googled "Strict aliasing ate my neighbours". I'm disappointed. Commented May 14, 2019 at 19:24
  • @CássioRenan Strict aliasing is undefined behavior. If you Google it, anything can happen.
    – Lundin
    Commented May 15, 2019 at 6:52
-1

I know from previous experience that SO likes to preserve crap in favour for site traffic, even when there is community consensus for deletion. - Lundin

You have already answered this question yourself.

2
  • 2
    Bleh, I had forgotten about that other craptastrophe. Stil just cannot believe that got undeleted.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 23:38
  • 1
    $$$$$ are a strong compelling factor.
    – user177800
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 5:30
-1

Here are a few ideas:

  1. Lock the answer, unlock the question.

    If anyone has a recommendation for an addition, they can post an answer to be voted on.

    If the new answer reaches enough votes (or the change is simply a version or link change), the locked answer can be flagged for editing (referencing the other answer, which can simply be copied in by a mod) and the other answer deleted.

    I recon there should be a discussion somewhere reviewing all items currently in the list and the goal should be to only have a short list of well-known books.

  2. Let each recommendation be an answer.

    Scrap the single-answer idea and let the system work like intended - each recommendation is an answer, comments can be used to criticise the recommendation and votes tell you how good the recommendation is.

    This is much less awkward than the first suggestion.

  3. Lock both the question and answer.

    For historical significance, mainly.

    This would unfortunately mean it's basically static.

Suggestions 1 + 2 would mean the question is neither closed nor locked, thus it's implied to be on topic, which it is not. I'm not sure whether this is desirable.


Mostly the current single-answer multiple-suggestion multiple-author format is something the system wasn't built to handle. How are we even supposed to interpret a recommendation appearing on that list? It's mostly a small subset of users (1 user, in the worst case) providing a binary recommendation and there's no voting to tell us how good the general public think it is in either absolute or relative terms.

Yes, that's also a problem with this answer of mine.

3
  • 2
    "much less awkward " until two years from now, when it's another three-page crusted-over pile of duplicated "try this" community wiki spam where the scores are meaningless because no one can find anything in it. "Let each recommendation be an answer" is the thing that we know doesn't work. We don't even do it on Meta.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 12:35
  • 1
    @JoshCaswell I wonder whether anyone's considered whether that problem has anything to do with all that space we're wasting. Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 13:05
  • 2
    Yes, the war on comments appears to be proceeding apace.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 15:30

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