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I was looking over some edits made on the The Definitive C++ Book Guide and List answer.

Going back 20ish revisions, the book Starting Out with C++ from Control Structures to Objects has been added 4 times (revisions 41, 43, 59, 64) from 3 different users, but the changes has been rolled back 3 times (revisions 42, 45, 60). One rollback was made with the message rm, run-of-the-mill textbook.

Who makes the decision what is a good textbook and not?

Due to the edits not really being transparent, it's difficult to get a good feeling on what books are being endorsed by the community and which ones are not. Normally, this is solved by the upvote/downvote system, but by clumping everything together in one answer this feature is removed. The C book guide question uses some kind of hybrid system, with one canonical answer, but also separate answers for different books.

I'm not entirely sure what my question here is, but my observations are as follows:

  • The current system is not transparent. Anyone can edit the answer, and without "knowledgable vigilantes" from the C++ community the list will eventually deteriorate.
  • Is not a upvote/downvote system better, to make sure that the best information floats to the top?

Disclaimer: I do not have an opinion on whether the book above should be in the list or not.

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    This is exactly why (among other reasons) these questions are problematic and the rules dictate that questions like these aren't allowed.
    – Servy
    Aug 9, 2017 at 13:13
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    One would like a system where each book was voted on separately. But only voted on by acknowledged experts. (I suggest that, in order to vote, one has to beat Bjarne Stroustrup in a contest of debugging obfuscated C++ code :-) ) Aug 9, 2017 at 14:13
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    I really don't get why a "question" like that should exist here on SO. It totally contradicts with the site's system, regardless of the historical significance or the maintainance work. Aug 10, 2017 at 20:01
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    @the4kman In principle I agree. However, I must admit that I've used the answer for book recommendations before. So on some level, the question (in its current state) seems to be providing a function.
    – pingul
    Aug 10, 2017 at 20:40
  • Tons of questions that are off topic could provide function. Providing function should not be criteria for SO not deleting something. I can imagine tons of subjective "please recommend x" questions I'd get tons of use from but they aren't allowed. This should be no different.
    – gman
    Aug 24, 2017 at 18:18

2 Answers 2

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The whole reason that question exists is because the C++ community here has promised to maintain it, and the reason it continues to exist is because they have kept their promise.

The question is not evidence that similar questions are acceptable on Stack Overflow. They are absolutely not, for many of the reasons you point out. These types of questions just do not fit well with our format.

The existence of that one is a concession to two realities:

  1. Many books on C++ are terrible, and the rest are lousy, so finding the good ones is exceedingly difficult.
  2. The C++ community here on Stack Overflow vigilantly maintains it, as stated above.

The whole presentation of the question is based on these two realities. It has intentionally been locked, allowing only one answer, and that answer is a Community Wiki because that answer is maintained by the community.

Who makes the decision what is a good textbook and not?

The C++ community here on Stack Overflow. Many of them hang out in the chat room Lounge<C++>. Go there if you want to make arguments in favor of your favorite textbook being included.

Do note that because of reality #1, you have a fairly low chance of winning people over. This is kind of the point. The question is not meant to be a master list of all books published about C++. Amazon already maintains that for us.

The current system is not transparent. Anyone can edit the answer, and without "knowledgable vigilantes" from the C++ community the list will eventually deteriorate.

Yes. This is a fatal flaw in the scheme.

However, if not for the "knowledgeable vigilantes", everything on this site would deteriorate. So that's kind of non-unique.

Furthermore, if the vigilant maintenance stops, and the question deteriorates, a moderator will delete the question. The experiment will have proven a failure, and we will basically be able to say, we told you so. And everyone likes to say that, so don't think for a minute we won't.

Due to the edits not really being transparent

I'm sorry, what? Edits are absolutely transparent: they bump the post and all of them are visible in the revision history.

The C book guide question uses some kind of hybrid system, with one canonical answer, but also separate answers for different books.

That's because it hasn't been cleaned up yet.

You can't see them, but there are actually 105 answers on the C++ book list question. All but one have been deleted, and the contents worth keeping have been merged into the single answer.

The same thing needs to be done with the C question. It simply doesn't work anymore to have separate answers for different books, since the question has been locked (which prevents new answers from being added and even existing answers from being voted upon).

I'll put that on my to-do list. Please remove any and all of the merged-in recommendations that are spurious!

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    Great answer -- this addresses all the concerns I had. Especially the first paragraph together with "...if the vigilant maintenance stops... , a moderator will delete the question." was very helpful. Just to clarify on the transparency: I really should have written "The current system is not transparent for a rookie user", as you have to wade through edits/rollbacks to figure out what is considered good and not; I did not mean to intend that the SO edit system is flawed. Thank you!
    – pingul
    Aug 9, 2017 at 14:38
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    TL;DR: Look, there are rules and then there are rules. You prove you can handle not having rules? You get to break the rules. But not the rules. Capiche? Aug 10, 2017 at 20:00
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    "The experiment will have proven a failure, and we will basically be able to say, we told you so. And everyone likes to say that, so don't think for a minute we won't." HAHAHA that's worth many upvotes. :)
    – Almo
    Aug 10, 2017 at 20:44
  • Is there a canonical answer about why "list" questions are a poor fit for SO in general? I ended up here while looking for one to link on how many ASM/Bytecode/P-Code languages are there where the querent seems to feel that it would be valuable for a list of bytecode formats and their assembly languages to exist (on SO). (Searching on "list questions" brought up many irrelevant results... Update: with quotes in the search, I found Are questions asking for one exhaustive list on-topic?) Feb 16, 2022 at 7:36
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Basically, those question are usually considered off topic, because they can be seen as opinion based.

There is just a group of dedicated users that aggressively maintains that list and doesn't allow any book to be added. So it's up to their judgement.

If you want to know why, the best way is to ping them in a comment on the post.

If I remember well, the completion may not work, but the ping still will work because they're in the edit history.

As for why a voting system would probably not work:

Because there are fewer experts than "beginners" who may have to learn their C++ in low quality books ("Learn C++ in X days") that pretty much contain only how to write a workable/unmaintainable C++ and not how to think in C++ which requires one to understand what happens under the hood.

Pretty much the same that happened in Documentation, people writing rough and not accurate things vs. experts writing very accurate and so harder-to-digest things.

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  • What do you mean by "the completion may not work"? Aug 10, 2017 at 20:14
  • @PeterMortensen When you type @ followed by a letter in a comment box, there's a small pop-up box with names of pingable people. Editors don't (?) appear in that pop-up, despite being pingable. Aug 10, 2017 at 20:56

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