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I flagged this answer as VLQ:

enter image description here

...which was declined by a moderator stating:

I don't think it's reasonable for a moderator to delete this outright. The comment you left prompting them to expand the answer is more appropriate. Probably doesn't merit a VLQ flag.

Based on posts like this meta answer, I was under the impression that answers that have no content besides the name of some tool should be removed, and I flagged 100s of answers like this in the past. All three reviewers that saw that post also agreed with me.

So did we change site policy regarding answers that just recommend some tool? Is there a Meta for that?

Or was this simply an incorrect moderator action?

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    That does look a lot like a link-only answer to me. I mean, it could be an appropriate answer to a tool request question...which shouldn't be very appropriate. Aug 4, 2017 at 17:15
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    new mods, new rulez...
    – rene
    Aug 4, 2017 at 17:17
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    That's not how I interpret the last official guidance we were given. Yes, it would be nice if you could motivate them to transform it into a better answer, but it looks like an answer as it stands to me. It names a library and says what it does, which is clearly applicable to the question. This isn't exactly the same as "link-only with no content". The tutorial links are just bonus. Also similar to: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/284397. Aug 4, 2017 at 17:56
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    @CodyGray This isn't about the links to the tutorials. I have been flagging answers that just recommend a tool or library without demonstrating how it solves the problem for a while now, under the impression that deleting them is community consensus. If it isn't (anymore), I'd like a Meta explicitly stating it that I can refer to.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 17:59
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    @CodyGray If not community consensus, deleting answers like this seemed to be at least common practice among moderators and the LQQ reviewers. As I said, I literally flagged 100s of answers like this, and today was the very first time such a flag was declined, against the vote of reviewers, too.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 18:07
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    Well, nobody told me, obviously. I see nothing in psubsee's answer that I disagree with. I just don't see the answer you flagged as being "link-only". It contains more than a link, and even if the link were invalid, the library suggestion seems like it would constitute an answer by the apple/castle guidance. Honestly, I flagged some stuff like this a long time ago, and I got all of those flags rejected and was told here on Meta that isn't how we do things, so I stopped fighting it and modified my standards. So for you to say that this is precedent is...well, quite new and surprising to me. Aug 4, 2017 at 18:12
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    Just naming their preferred library is what spammers do. We want to distinguish real answers from those somehow - that is, by demonstrating how to use said library. Aug 4, 2017 at 18:16
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    @CodyGray I'm not saying it's link only, I flagged it because I thought (and think) that answers that just recommend some tool or library are VLQ, too.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 18:16
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    @BaummitAugen While that answer may be low quality, it isn't very low quality. It can be fixed. If you read the VLQ flag, it mentions the post being unlikely to be saved through edits. This answer can be saved through edits. So the VLQ flag was wrong.
    – Kendra
    Aug 4, 2017 at 18:17
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    While I think this is low quality and down votes and delete votes would be OK I do not think it is flag worthy. Aug 4, 2017 at 18:19
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    @John No one has to write any code. Recalling psubsee's answer that Baum linked in the original question, all that has to done to make tool recommendations acceptable in an answer is to add an explanation of how the tool solves the problem. Anyone can do that. Aug 4, 2017 at 18:20
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    Trivial to edit in said example? No. Such things require experience with said library - something the answerer should bring, not editors. And copying code from the documentation - if the library even has such a thing - might not be kosher from the licencing standpoint. Aug 4, 2017 at 18:20
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    @John There is nothing wrong with putting words in the answerer's mouth. Many constructive edits do that. You keep talking about "copying code". Code has nothing to do with any of this. The standard for a good answer isn't whether it gives me teh codez. The guidance is, does it explain how the library would solve the problem. You don't need code to explain things. Aug 4, 2017 at 18:25
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    To quote myself from SOCVR just now: "Spammers tell you to use their thing without saying how. We require real answers to be different." Aug 4, 2017 at 18:31
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    @CodyGray General advice I've seen for that case was "Edit, then raise a flag for undeletion". This seems, again, more likely to work than waiting for 3 users randomly noticing that some deleted answer was improved. The OP cannot override 20k delvotes himself afaik.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:18

1 Answer 1

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Almost 30 comments here, an hour of discussion, and I'm both the first person to answer and the first person to downvote the answer being discussed?

Y'all are slacking.

Anyway... "Very low quality" is subjective, one of those "I know it when I see it" things. I wouldn't consider that answer VLQ either, but some might and I don't particularly fault you for it.

There are, as usual, multiple problems here:

  1. The answer doesn't answer the question.
  2. The question looks broader than it should.

The asker is using the Jansson JSON parser, and running into a problem with it. He doesn't mention this until the second paragraph, and NONE of the other answers attempt to address it either.

I don't rightly know if this question is salvageable, but if you want to get rid of that answer it's probably worth making it a bit more obvious that it doesn't answer the question.

Update: I can't help but gloat that the answer has now been deleted, by normal users, which they could conveniently do because it scored less than zero. Use your votes!

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    @Shog9 There is no obvious difference for me, which is why I ask in the first place. I thought: Recommends library, does not demonstrate how it solves the problem -> flag. Which has served me well, I had a non-declined streak of like 4.7k flags until yesterday. (That one declined comment flag was on me, I was wrong.)
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 18:47
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    @Shog9 Yes, I did. I saw a bunch of upvoted answers, trying to solve the actual problem or presenting an alternative. I also checked that the question is not a resource request, for which I don't raise flags, but vote to close the question instead. Nothing I saw led me to believe this answer should not be flagged.
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 18:51
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    It doesn't bother you that the example is irrelevant to the question, @John?
    – Shog9
    Aug 4, 2017 at 18:57
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    The question is about the problems someone is having using Jansson to parse a string containing a JSON object. The answer is about using Boost to load a JSON file. It is every bit as irrelevant as the answer that was just deleted, just longer. The asker even responded to it by going back and editing the question to specify "no Boost"!
    – Shog9
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:02
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    Yeah, I'm not taking the bait on that, @John - as I said, VLQ is subjective. Folks always want a guarantee that if they flag something that matches a ridiculously vague pattern those flags are gonna be acted on in the exact same way 99.999% of the time - that's not going to happen until we replace all moderators with a few simple regular expressions. To be clear, I think both answers are crap and I downvoted both of them.
    – Shog9
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:04
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    Fine, maybe other answers are bad, too, but I still need general advice regarding tool/lib recommendation answer. Do they need to demonstrate how it solves the problem or not? Alternatively, what makes this answer better than the 100s I've flagged before?
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:04
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    Of course not, @John. There are lots of general policies. One declined flag isn't evidence to the contrary, it just means a moderator disagreed with one specific flag on one specific post.
    – Shog9
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:07
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    @JohnDvorak The point is that the official policy is not, "flag answers as VLQ that suggest a tool", the official policy is, "flag answers of no redeeming value, that are complete garbage and are unsalvageable, as VLQ". You might think that this answer meets that criteria; the moderator disagreed. If you try to create shorthands like, "all answers suggesting a tool are always unsalvageable and have no redeeming value" then you'll frequently (or occasionally, depending on how good your heuristic is) run into problems when those heuristics turn out to have exceptions.
    – Servy
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:09
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    In my defense, I intentionally avoided answering the question. For starters, I can't possibly answer whether the site policy has changed, which is what's being asked here. Furthermore, I'm not wedded to the decision that I made, so I don't want to sound like I'm arguing it was correct. (I agree the flagged answer was bad; that's not the same as insta-delete.) I'm really quite interested in seeing if we can establish anything approaching a community consensus here, but I suspect that's impossible. Still, I'm curious about the discrepancy between my understanding and Baum's flag history. Aug 4, 2017 at 19:09
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    @CodyGray it might look like we're testing the waters, you're doing fine. No defense needed.
    – rene
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:16
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    In my defense, I only answered this question because rene was afraid of accidentally agreeing with you, @Cody. So you could still post that comment as an answer if you like. Also, this response is totally not a ruse to get you to spend more time reading chat.
    – Shog9
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:21
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    I'm sorry if I'm being annoying, but this does not answer my question yet. You are writing stuff about the specific Q/A, but unless you can tell me why this answer is better than the ones I flagged before, that does nothing to explain why the metrics I use to judge recommendation answers, enforced by a lot of flags marked helpful, failed me here. As it stands, my question remains: Was I wrong all the time flagging answers because the recommended some off-site resource without demonstrating how it solves the problem? If so, why did I get away with it that long? If not, did the rules change?
    – Baum mit Augen Mod
    Aug 4, 2017 at 19:46
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    @Cody I would really appreciate an answer from you, I'm part of the crazy group that actively hunt down problems on SO. Whether we should do this or not is another question (if SO was scaling better, we could probably avoid), however what is certain is that we need metrics when we review more then 400 answers/questions/comments x day. To sum up, set metrics and we will follow'em filling your queue with correct stuff. Aug 4, 2017 at 20:10
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    and do note that we have notice the excellent work you been doing all day responding to flags Aug 4, 2017 at 20:16
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    Why did I think it was a requirement @JohnDvorak I think you're thinking of the requirement that answers not be link-only answers. It's probably also been said that a tool recommendation should explain how it solves the problem in order to be considered a good answer.
    – BSMP
    Aug 4, 2017 at 21:11

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