34

... but can we at least try to find a duplicate? There is no-one really, not a single user, that will benefit from closing examples like this or this ... (I mean before a Mod destroyed evidence)

low quality migration

... as off-topic.

The post notice is useless for the OP. The question gets rejected, locked here on Meta and is sent back closed to Main. There are no winners here.

Please, can the Meta regulars with close vote privileges be a bit more conscientious when it comes to migrated posts from Main and prefer to close vote as duplicate, when applicable? I honestly believe that is the approach with the least resistance. If you need a user with a dupe hammer, ping me.

12
  • 1
    Agreed, what a lost of time for everyone. Anyway, I'm still wondering what is not clear in "Your post is mostly code, add some more details"...
    – Mistalis
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 6:57
  • IMO, a question that needs to be closed should not have a different treatment just because it was migrated from another site. I would not have migrated the question you take as example, but in general I find locking a rejected migration too excessive in some cases, like when the site receiving the question is a meta site. Plus, it's not even possible to comment.
    – avpaderno
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:01
  • @Mistalis that is also true. There are a few edge case in that check though that can set it off on further perfectly formatted posts. And there are plenty of helpful answers on the dupe chain here that will solve the OP's problem one way or the other. Most of these type of question are common dupes anyway. And I have no problem deleting them after a while as this example is kind of an low quality dupe but in that case we can clean up n meta where I think no-one runs out of votes.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:02
  • That means that, for example, for a migrated question that is closed, the community on the site getting the question cannot even comment with it would be on topic if you add these details, which (IMO) creates too much difference between a question asked directly in a site, and a question that is migrated.
    – avpaderno
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:05
  • 1
    @kiamlaluno form another site that is true in the general case. Migration to Meta is an explicit migration option on all sites across the network. They are different (also because < 5 rep users can't post on M<eta) and therefor should be treated differently where it applies.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:06
  • 1
    @Mistalis Closing a question is never for helping the OP with the problem he is describing in the question. It is for teaching the OP how to ask a question, and which topics are not acceptable.
    – avpaderno
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:08
  • 3
    Wouldn't it make much more sense to stop migrating crap and destroying these nonsense questions on the spot? There is not point in having these questions on the main site or on meta.
    – Tom
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:12
  • 3
    @Tom to be fair... the main site users probably migrate it to meta in good faith thinking that's where it belongs. They may not necessarily be active meta users and aware it could be closed (not as a duplicate) here and the migration rejected and all the weirdness that causes.
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:13
  • @Tom getting rid of migrations all together could be an option. Let each site deal with their own crap, sure.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:16
  • 3
    @rene that'd certainly save a lot of hassle. Just chuckling at how many times I've seen posts requesting being able to migrate to more sites... :)
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:18
  • @Tom We have enough votes on Meta to fastly close questions. I think migrating crap is not fully a waste of time, because a good dupe closing may teach the OP something.
    – Mistalis
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:18
  • 2
    @Mistalis Yes, it teaches OP that it doesn't matter how bad your question is, if it is clear that it belongs to meta, then you'll get spoon-feed :). But if your own time isn't worth that much :/. If OP actually would care a bit, he would inform themselves to avoid asking a bad question on the wrong place. But that's a general problem with closing bad questions as a dupe.
    – Tom
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 7:22

4 Answers 4

19

Please, can the Meta regulars with close vote privileges be a bit more conscientious when it comes to migrated posts from Main and prefer to close vote as duplicate? I honestly believe that is the approach with the least resistance.

No.

Well, maybe "no" is a bit too strong. Nothing wrong with being conscientious. But…

Erroneously closing a question as a duplicate is no more correct on Meta than it is on main. If it is actually a duplicate of another question, then sure, you can close it as a duplicate. But if it's really just unclear what the person is asking, then it should be closed for that reason.

Asking users on Meta to do this is essentially no different than when the C++ gold-badge holders close underspecified beginner questions as duplicates of "What is the best C++ book?" (or whatever that question is called). We've asked them not to do that because the question is not really a duplicate, and this is effectively abusing the duplicate closure system as a way of dealing with a bad question. These questions should instead be closed as "unclear" or "off-topic".

In either case, the real problem is that the tooling is broken.

On the main site, the problem is that the duplicate-closure privileges for gold tag-badge holders aren't extended to closing questions as "unclear" or "off topic" when they obviously should be. If someone is an expert in a language or technology, he or she is in the best possible position to determine whether a question is clear, on-topic, and contains all necessary information. Even speaking from the vantage point of my newly-minted moderator privileges, I would rather have gold tag-badge holders close questions for these reasons because I trust their judgment on the topic more than my own.

Similarly, on Meta, the issue that migrations here should never be rejected. Meta is a black hole. It's always been that way. Stuff migrated to Meta should never be migrated back out of Meta.

Ironically, I had posting this issue of rejected Meta migrations as a bug report on my virtual to-do list many moons ago. But unfortunately, when I say "virtual", I don't mean "on the computer", I mean "entirely in my head", so I actually just forgot all about it. That just needs to be revisited and fixed.

We don't need to modify our behavior to the limitations of the tools. We need to fix the tools so that they do what we want. Please don't teach people bad behavior on Meta to work around its limitations, because that implies they're justified in carrying that same bad behavior over to main to work around its limitations.

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  • 11
    I didn't mean to say always close vote as a duplocat, I used prefer as in : yes, we can reasonably assume what is asked here and there must be a dupe for that. Which is 100% the case for the example I picked. Beyond these cases I agree with your answer.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 3, 2017 at 11:07
5

I don't necessarily disagree with Cody Gray's position, but I disagree that there is a single universal "no" answer that applies here. (Although, the rejected migration from Meta, back to the main site has always been a problem. It just shouldn't happen).

That being said, I am not advocating closing questions as duplicates just because they were migrated when no good duplicate exists. But enough of the common newbie question tend have generic duplicates on meta already that can be used. So I do think that the idea here of preferring duplicates is a good solution in many cases.

This case is a good example because the now duplicate question says almost exactly the same thing (and is lacking in details). The only real differences are

  1. The dup was about trying to edit (which does not really affect the answer)
  2. The dup was originally posted on meta and no one tried to close that as "unclear what you are asking".

If a reasonable generic duplicate does exist, hopefully by using it, the confused user may understand the tools a little better. This should help them clarify the question if they still have questions on what is wrong.

-2

The post notice is useless for the OP.

The post notice clearly says

If you have encountered a problem on one of our sites, please describe it in detail.

...which detail is completely lacking in the question. If the best we can do to answer it is to point the asker to a question whose title is the same as the error message, then they should be equally capable of finding the thing.

I voted to close this question because it's unanswerable as it stands; the asker needs to edit it (to include the text producing the error) in order for us to actually provide guidance. That's exactly what question closure is for.

I am on record as strongly preferring duplicate closure as well, but that doesn't make it wrong to use another reason.

(I think the real question is how the fluff the post got through the quality filter on Main in the first place.)

3
  • I don't disagree in general with that, but my problem is really this: 5 close voters on Main decided to migrate it. That is bad in itself as they are migrating crap, but they did. Next 5 close voters here close vote as unclear, causing the rejection of the question. Now it is open again on main and needs 5 new close voters to get it closed (or it stays there for 365 days before the Roomba gets it). That is why I suggested to prefer a duplicate and a search on MSO for that error in this case renders multiple results.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 6:11
  • Also: the discussion tag gets automatically added on migrated posts.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 6:11
  • Oh, interesting, I did not know that.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 13:26
-6

I agree with you. There are some migrations that are idiotic, and end up not benefiting anyone.

.. but can we at least try to find a duplicate? There is no-one really, not a single user, that will benefit from closing examples like this ...

But if you check the question now you will see it is marked as a duplicate.

marked as duplicate by Jon Clements♦ 54 mins ago

This question was marked as an exact duplicate of an existing question.

As you see this happened recently, but it is migrated and closed as a duplicate.

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