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I have spent some time going over the and tags (which are the areas I mostly spend my time in) to remove any references to "RTFM", by replacing them with "RTM" and, as indicated under How should we deal with RTFM comments?, there are better ways to advise people to read the manual.

For people who have some extra time on their hands: edit questions and/or answers that contain "RTFM" by removing the "F" or replace it with "Read the manual" (by accessing https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=rtfm or by entering a tag name followed by "rtfm": [tag_name] rtfm in the Search input).

e.g.: [javascript] rtfm, or URL https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=[javascript]rtfm.

I noticed that there are just under 2,000 of these when I linked to https://stackoverflow.com/search?q=rtfm

I am willing to make my part in this but feel that it would take too much of my time to remove/modify them all by myself. 5-15 minutes here and there wouldn't take much for a bunch of us to clean this all up, or most of them. Like the community I "live" in, it's always a pleasant experience to "be" somewhere as I am sure you like that also; least I hope. Stack Overflow etc. is no different in certain respects. A community (should) pull together when something needs to be done.

I don't want or hope to not pass off as a martyr. I just feel that it would be a better place for everyone to interact in a sane and peaceful environment by not provoking people in telling them to "RTFM".

Links to check for "RTFM" under and tags:

The php one still contains a few "RTFM"'s, only because those contain what MailChimp used to be have that contained valid URL's at the time; they are 404's now.

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    This question seems to have a lot of unnecessary content and could do with being considerably shortened. Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:13
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    Maybe i'm mis-understanding your point... (question kinda jumps around a bit imo) Are you suggesting we go around replacing RTFM with RTM? seems like instead those comments should be removed and replaced with downvotes on the questions.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:14
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    I really do not see a need to go back and edit stuff that is already done. We could try and blacklist the comments like we do for let me google that for you comments going forward. Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:16
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    @KevinB Only suggesting, not "telling". I feel that those "RTFM"'s should be removed, I don't see the harm or being "off-topic" in simply asking people to remove/edit those, IMHO, what's wrong with that? Something that can be done in free time, I took the initiative to do away with those in the php/mysql section. Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:16
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    @Fred-ii- I'm not saying they aren't constructive. What I am saying as this task is just so huge that instead of trying to fix the stuff already posted we just blacklist the comments going forward and then we do not have to deal with it. Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:21
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    If people have time to post negative responses to a valid post, then they have time to get rid of the "RTFM"'s. I honestly can't see why my post is getting negative reviews. Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:22
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    I'm not saying your post is invalid... or anything like that. And i'm not saying you should stop. What i am saying is... there's more productive things you could be doing. There's more productive ways to prevent RTFM from appearing. and replacing RTFM with RTM doesn't make it less offensive.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:23
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    so, just under 2000 questions that failed to be deleted because someone answered instead of downvoting.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:56
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    The useless, poorly researched low quality questions failed to be deleted. mostly due to having an upvoted answer stating RTFM. Many others do end up closed or deleted, as they should.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 15:59
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    @Fred-ii- In the time that you spent writing a 500 word question that only actually says 2 sentences worth of content, you could have easily flagged dozens of inappropriate comments. In the time that you've spent complaining about people telling you that your question isn't understandable, you could have re-written your question to one that is understandable. Complaining about how people aren't taking the time to understand your poorly written question, while also refusing to take the time to write it clearly, is rather hypocritical.
    – Servy
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 16:15
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    @Fred-ii- I don't see anyone here defending the use of RTFM. For my part, I actually upvoted your question. Saying we're all "'with' RTFM's" is not fair. Profit from feedback and your cause will be benefited. Commented May 8, 2017 at 16:34
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    @NathanArthur You're right; me neither. Some of them were probably the ones upvoting the answers/comments. As I said to someone else earlier; I'll just keep flagging those comments "when" I see them. After a while, I take it that if they get too many flags against them, that moderation goes into effect. Hey... I wasn't always a "prince" and I've been told by moderators to "cool it", and I have. I see myself as being a good contributor to "the community" and I've nothing to feel sorry about or my behaviour. +1 btw. and thanks. Commented May 8, 2017 at 16:38
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    I downvoted because I'm not really bothered either way about the RTFM issue (use it, don't use it, remove it from every post, add it to every post, couldn't care less, my skin's thick enough not to be concerned about whether someone's using the F word or not on the internet), but you could've got that point across in about two paragraphs rather than the rambling nature of this post as it is now. You stole my time, I won't get that back :) That and the quotes when nothing's being quoted. That really "bugs" me...
    – Clive
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 16:52
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    I consider RTFM no better than LMGTFY, which we currently disallow. Neither is a constructive when posted as a comment or part of an answer, regardless of the "F" in "RTFM". It's not an issue of profanity, it's an issue of posting dismissive and non-constructive noise. If you have a link to the documentation you wish to share, share it. "Have you read [relevant link to documentation]" is massively more useful than the comment that triggered this discussion, which was somebody repeatedly posting [RTFM](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTFM) as a comment below questions from new users.
    – user229044 Mod
    Commented May 8, 2017 at 18:35
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    TBH, it's an annoying waste of typing. Such questions don't deserve 4/6 keypresses, (or, for that matter, anyone to provide links). Just downvote and move on - one click and you're done with it. Commented May 8, 2017 at 18:39

1 Answer 1

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There's a lot to unpack here, but I think I see where this started and where you're trying to go with it.

An experienced member of the site decided that the best way to combat low quality questions was to copy and paste the same insulting comment telling people to "RTFM" across many questions. This was flagged by you and others, and moderators sent a message to them that we did not think these comments were helpful or constructive. They read that message and dramatically increased the rate at which they were posting this comment, adding more direct insults to users along with it. Over 50 of these comments were deleted before we decided to suspend their account to get them to stop.

Many of the questions these comments were posted on were awful, and pointing the asker to reference material could possibly help them. However, these comments simply told someone to "RTFM" without any link to said manual and were left to insult the poster. Insults are never an appropriate response to someone posting a poorly-formulated question.

The problem isn't so much "RTFM" as a phrase (although it's not very friendly), it's the overall rudeness in these comments. Simply replacing "RTFM" with "RTM" doesn't necessarily solve the problem. For example, telling someone:

Read the manual: [link]

still comes off as a little harsh and doesn't provide great direction. Compare that with:

The function you want here is blarg(), and it is documented here: [link]

If your goal is to replace RTFM entries in answers with RTM, that by itself might not do much to improve tone. Also, answers tend not to be the place where this is a problem, comments are where people go to use RTFM as an insult. Answers that include "RTFM" as a phrase might be doing it with a little more humor, and might have provided enough context to take the edge off. I'd focus first on the cases where this really was intended in an insulting manner.

For comments, if you see RTFM being used to insult or demean someone, please feel free to flag those for our attention.

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  • Yes Brad, you are right about all this and only "you" and other moderators know where "my" RTFM drop filled the glass and TBH, I had quite enough of this behaviour and as to the root of it all started with what people thought as being "cool" or what not. I'm doing what I think/thought was best to clean this whole mess up. Instead, I received an opposite reaction to an action I found to be fit. As you can tell, I did not mention any names here, which goes back to the beginning of my comment. If you feel that I should stop editing questions/answers about my modifications, please tell me now. Commented May 8, 2017 at 16:12
  • Well Brad, I'll just stop editing Q&A's then and just flag comments containing those as well as any supportive comments "supporting" them stating something like: "+1 on that comment/answer". Thanks for your well-written answer and understanding what the real problem was. I take it that my question now in light of what I wrote here, would kind of be "null and void". Yet the edit that Martin did with his "TLDR", made it as such; "null and void". Oh well, "c'est la vie!" Commented May 8, 2017 at 17:05
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    There is something I'd like you to answer (for me) though Brad; by leaving those "RTFM"'s in existing Q&A's, aren't we (sort of) allowing that term (and behaviour) to be introduced in (future) comments? People see those and of course are (probably) prone to use that term and for future posts; this being for questions/answers/comments. Servy said it was hypocritical on my part, I'd say by keeping those intact and allowing those for the future, is hypocritical in its own right. Commented May 8, 2017 at 17:41

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