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That a flag gets denied from time to time is nothing new, but now I got three in a row, which seems a bit odd. I'm not sure if I was actually wrong to flag these, so I'd like to get a second opinion.

Note: All three of them have been declined by a moderator:

Declined Flags

Description of the VLQ flag:

This question has severe formatting or content problems. This question is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed.

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  • You voted to close them as unclear. Why did you think you also needed to flag them? Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:27
  • 3
    I realize those are two separate things but don't they both apply? Isn't that the reason we can do both at the same time? Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:31
  • Related: Am I misusing the “Very Low Quality” flag? Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:32
  • @AzizShaikh Thanks for the link, I'm still not sure why those questions don't qualify as "obvious, unarguable garbage" (the part about unnecessary overhead makes sense). Opinions? Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:37
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    I can read the question and get a vague idea what is asked. How is that obvious, unarguable garbage? How would you qualify hshsgsgyegdhd ^%%$#g hhh hreikrprld,dpri*(((( in that case? Ultra Low Quality? When the questions are edited by the OP they are salvageable.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:45
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    @rene The official definition of the VLQ-Flag is "This question has severe formatting or content problems. This question is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed." Doesn't that apply? Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:48
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    @rene I don't think that edits made by the author are included in the flag reason. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense having that in there to begin with, since every question would be salvageable through edits made by the author.
    – Seth
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:49
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    @Seth Agreed. It is actually a big problem in Triage. A lot of question like these land in the Help and Improvement queue, probably because of that kind of reasoning. Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:52
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    Moderators have shown great reluctance in moderating content lately. Not sure what is going on, smells like a directive from the company. This started with the NAA flag, VLQ was next. Ideally these flags are handled by the community but that is not happening, only 4% get reviewed within a hour by community members. One mod even suggested that they should never see these flags, pretty bizarre. Maybe it is time to start bypassing the official way, it is utterly incapable of getting rid of crap. We'll get rid of these, maybe meta is the way to do this. Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:56
  • I know the definition, You ask me why a mod declined your flags. I explain why that is. All efforts on meta so far to change the meaning of VLQ has been either declined or didn't get enough support from CM and mod team. cc @Seth
    – rene
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 12:59
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    @HansPassant I've seen you make these kind of statements more often lately. I'm wondering though how you envision the practical implementation of engaging meta in getting rid of crap. Could you elaborate on that before I interpret your intentions wrongly.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 13:07
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    @HansPassant I wouldn't call this reluctance, rather active resistance. If mods were reluctant they would just pass the post for community who would close and this would dismiss the flag as helpful. What they do instead is active involvement by declining the flag (seems like without even bothering to take a closer look at the question)
    – gnat
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 13:09
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    @HansPassant - I know it's fun to believe in conspiracy theories where Stack Exchange employees are telling moderators to do things that boost shareholder value, but that's not at all the case. In fact, the only guidance we've received from anyone at SE recently is to not handle "very low quality" or "not an answer" flags while this experiment is ongoing. Moderators disagreeing on how flags should be handled comes from our own personal judgment, not some SE orders. Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 13:58
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    Hmm, strange that mods are ignoring the SE guidance. I'll avoid coming up with a conspiracy theory :) Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 14:07
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    Also, anecdotally, I think that experiment seems to be working well. I've seen a ton of obvious non-answers be deleted by the community before any moderator got to them, same with many low-quality posts. I think it's getting the review queues much closer to being able to handle these without moderator intervention. These flags were a few that slipped through the one-hour threshold, and the moderator flag queue has been low since the election, so it's hard to avoid handling the few flags left over. I really hope that experiment works well enough to let the community handle all of these. Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 14:12

2 Answers 2

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"Double-dipping" the process by flagging and close-voting doesn't have any benefit as far as I know. Both lead to the question being queued up for review, so using either one should suffice. Close-voting is obviously better, as flags (other than "Spam" or "Rude/Abusive") cannot trigger something like automated deletion, as far as I know atleast.


Regarding the flagged questions: I would say that your flags were warranted, and should not have been declined. At most, if the moderator handling your flags felt very strong about it, they should've been disputed, but I can see no reason why one would choose to decline them.

As I've stated in my comment already, I don't think that edits made by the original poster apply. Going by that understanding those questions are simply unsalvageable. We cannot know what the OP is asking for, atleast it question 1 and 3, and thus flagging those questions is warranted in my opinion.


That being said, I think the current flag reasons should be flagged as well. In my opinion most of them are confusing, and really don't do any good. As of now, I'd say that simply flagging a post without giving a reason would be more efficient.

The best option, in my opinion, would be new flag reasons. Clear borders, and clear instructions. Short, clear reasoning, the user quickly checks "Does it fit?", and the moderator quickly checks "Does it fit?", and the process is done.

That'd be much easier than applying those hella obfuscated reasons, especially considering that every single one, no matter if user, moderator or SE employee, seems to have a slightly different interpretation of the flag reasons.

Apparently though that has no priority, as most of the feature requests regarding flags didn't receive any attention (not even ).

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    Moderators can't dispute flags other than spam/abusive.
    – Braiam
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 16:45
  • @Braiam Oh wow, I didn't know that. Why is that so? That sounds like a rather unnecessarily limiting "feature".
    – Seth
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 19:45
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    @Seth It's contrary to the point of the message. The whole purpose of "disputed" is that it's there to mean something happened that prevented the flag from being able to be evaluated (usually the post being edited in the meantime, reviewers handling it, the post being deleted by the author, etc.). When a mod actually evaluates a flag the idea is that it was helpful or it wasn't. A mod manually disputing spam flags is really what the hack is, as that's just there because of how audits work.
    – Servy
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 20:31
  • Not understanding the reason a flag exists is not a reason to replace the flag with a different flag for what you wish you could use the existing flag for.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 21:30
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    With the exception of spam and rude/abusive flags (which are special in other ways), there's no way for moderators to unilaterally "dispute" a flag save by going through review (and even then, it's not an option, merely a side-effect of how review works in some cases). The common meaning for "disputed" is simply, "there were different opinions as to how this should be handled", and traditionally it is reserved for cases where multiple reviewers disagreed with a flag. Last I checked, edits actually validate VLQ flags...
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 13, 2017 at 23:25
  • Personally, if something is flagged, it's because it needs moderator attention. Thus there's no need to vote to close it because a moderator is going to deal with the flag. So I vote for no double dipping. Either flag it, or VTC it.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Feb 14, 2017 at 4:01
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To add to servy's point in comments, a disputed flag by a mod would sounds like a 'skip' in review queue, if a mod doesn't agree he/she decline it and we granted them this power.
Asking about it on meta is OK in my opinion.

But, as far as I know, the mod will see the actual version of the post, not the one at time of flag, sometimes a flag doesn't apply anymore if the OP did act according to comments and did improve his question, it's still bad (take it as downvote worthy), but not anymore VLQ for the cases in questions. (With I didn't look at, answer from top of my head)

Personally I believe in mods to be fair on flag handling, but sometimes when you know the post history it's difficult to get in their shoes to understand their decision.

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