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I've come across a few answers lately that had deadpan, sarcastic statements in the answers. Some of them I didn't even recognize as jokes until after clicking links, etc.

Personally I actually like a bit of humor in answers, and even in these cases I don't think the sarcasm affected the answer quality per-se. None were rude or offensive in the least. However I do worry that when the delivery is 100% straight, sarcasm may be hard to parse for the non-native-English speaking portion of the community or for younger viewers who may not be actively questioning the authenticity of what they read here yet.

It seems like leaving a comment that gently warns people to remember that not everyone is fluent in English would serve to both remind the author of that and warn unsuspecting viewers that the content may not be exactly as it appears.

Does this seem like a good idea? Can we come up with something that doesn't sound patronizing and moralistic (e.g. help because I haven't been able to)? Flaging/editing are another option but seem kind of draconian to me (unless the joke is somehow abusive).

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    Could you provide some specific examples? Were the answers still accurate?
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 13:45
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    I really don't see how this is a problem. Anyone can always misunderstand anything in answers. There's a reason you couldn't come up with any comments that don't sound patronizing and moralistic. People have the right to inject any humor they want to into their answers, as long as it's not abusive. I don't believe there is any problem here. Do you have actual evidence that people are misunderstanding this? I think, being a fluent English speaker yourself, you're overcompensating and making incorrect assumptions about what others might understand. If they're confused, they can always ask.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 13:46
  • It might go over some people's heads but why is that a problem? Is understanding the joke important to understanding the answer? Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 13:55
  • @CodyGray possibly, but like I said I didn't pick up on it at first either. Not going to meta-effect anyone, but there are things like "This authoritative source" and linking to things which are not, and was clearly meant sarcastically by the author. Is the answer still correct? Now I'm not sure, maybe. Also on a personal note, I'm just asking a question here, no need to try to psychoanalyze me over the internet. Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 13:55
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    An example would be really good. Especially for us non-native speakers to see whether we would get it :)
    – BDL
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 13:59
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    It wasn't meant as psychoanalysis… Native speakers have a very difficult time figuring out what might be unclear for non-native speakers. I know this after having spent lots of time editing and proofreading written works. Most of the time, our assumptions are wrong. We tend to overcompensate and use simple words, simple constructions, etc., which sometimes impede clarity as opposed to enhancing it. I seem to be getting misinterpreted a lot recently. Maybe it's me. Sorry.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 13:59
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    @CodyGray meh, it is not you, this whole community is about to reach a new equilibrium. Your voice is still needed there. Just hang in there....
    – rene
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 14:04
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    XKCD: Sad Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 14:43
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    Related: Should we avoid rhetorical questions in answers? (A: No, they are fine.)
    – duplode
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 15:20

2 Answers 2

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The first part of this answer focuses on the fundamental idea of miscommunication in general. The second part focuses specifically on sarcasm in answers. Take them independently.

TL;DR:

  • This issue is too big and fundamental to solve, and is not SO-specific.
  • I don't think it's appropriate for a community-wide policy.
  • I do think it's reasonable for you to leave a comment if you want to. I think it's equally reasonable not to.
  • Things like turning this into a teaching moment, etc. These are great strategies case-by-case (and by "case" I mean per-answer, not per-writer), but in the bigger picture of course we cannot solve this problem.
  • If you do want to address a sarcastic post, I've found that there are a couple other strategies that are more effective than a direct confrontation.

Here is what communication (through text) essentially is as I see it (we're all programmers here, so here's a diagram):

enter image description here

Ideal communication is when the writer successfully encodes their idea to written form such that the exact same idea is ultimately placed in the reader's head. Language is nothing more than a fuzzy protocol for idea transmission. When the reader reconstructs a significantly different idea than the writer intended we often call this "not being on the same page".

Of course, to be clear, this is only my personal view of communication. There are many other good and reasonable ways to look at it, but this view is what I am basing this post on.

The art of being a good writer lies in having the ability to encode your idea to written text in a way that maximizes the number of people who are able to accurately reconstruct your idea in their head upon reading your text, given that people, especially from different cultures or who speak other languages, can have massively different ways of processing information that any one person could never expect to truly understand / accurately predict. It can be tricky, and I think failures here sometimes deserve some forgiveness.

Now, the point of this is this: Fundamentally, you're looking for a partial (limited to sarcasm) general solution to miscommunication. In the case of sarcasm in answers, at least the way you've framed it, it is a combination of significantly different worldviews on the part of the writer and reader combined with language barrier issues.

The "problem" (which I quote not out of disrespect, but because it's a matter of choice to view this as a problem vs. a simple "fact of life") you are looking to solve is too big and too intrinsic to human communication to be solved by a specific directed comment here and there. We cannot solve this, at least not in the general sense.

It's totally reasonable and within your rights to leave comments pointing out miscommunication, and if you want to do so, you should, but I do not think it is a good or effective idea to make a general community-wide policy out of this. In a big picture sense, I believe this will have the following results in order of decreasing likelihood:

  • You end up causing a non-constructive confrontation. You're essentially criticizing a person's fundamental communication style, in many cases what you're criticizing is way too ingrained in a person's thought process for them to even see it.
  • Your comment is well-received and the person improves their text, but likely reverts back to their natural style in the future.
  • The person has some sort of epiphany, and changes their fundamental writing style forever.
  • Many people reading your comment have that epiphany, and community members change their fundamental writing styles en masse forever. This is your ideal result, and is also very unlikely.

At the end of the day, what I believe you will have is a combination of confrontational comments and perhaps one or two successes, but all in all no change. You cannot unify the global community's ability to encode and decode ideas into language. We're all different and this is an uphill battle.

So leave the comment if you want, but I don't like the idea of this becoming some sort of meta-citable policy.


As for sarcasm specifically, here are some things you can do. Please note that I come at this from the POV of somebody who is very sarcastic in real life and text (and, re the above, trust me, I try to work on this, but it is simply in my nature and no amount of comments to me could make me do this naturally). So much so, in fact, that IIRC an AIM conversation in college where my sarcasm was not understood ultimately led to my college girlfriend breaking up with me, and I just thought the whole thing was funny. So, that's my mindset, heh.

Anyways, if you choose to leave a comment, which I do think has merit on a case-by-case basis, the way I see it there are two particularly effective options:

  1. Simply edit / suggest an edit to the post, with an appropriate edit summary such as "Removed sarcasm". To smooth this over, you may prefer to add a rationale and optional modest patronizing in the summary, such as "Clarified post. While this joke was funny, non-English readers could easily misunderstand.".

  2. I find this option to be weird but consistently effective: If you identify sarcasm, pretend there is no sarcasm, then ask for clarification in a comment. That's it. While this is fairly passive, I've found it to be an effective solution that has a low chance of leading to confrontation.

For #2, as an example: If somebody says "Sure, just use jQuery" (weak example but whatever; also, pretend in context that jQuery is not an appropriate solution), rather than telling the person not to be sarcastic, pretend they aren't, then ask "I took a look through the jQuery documentation right now and I'm actually having trouble finding something that does X. Do you have an example or can you point me in the right direction?" In other words, you're sort of taking one for the team and pre-emptively assuming the role of a confused reader before anybody becomes truly confused.

Usually, in my experience, rather than being met with confrontation or irritation, this ends up being met with "Sorry, I was being sarcastic, what I actually meant was...", or an edit. Mostly this is because you've indirectly given the person the power to come to the realization that their post was confusing on their own, which, in general, is a major key to being effectively constructive.

There are other strategies you may be able to think of, too, for example Bart's ideas are another good approach to consider.

Anyways, that's the end of this long post.

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    Agree that it's a very bad idea as a policy. I think your #2 strategy sounds perfect, especially because in the cases I thought the answer should be changed, I personally was confused (at first), and it doesn't require making assumptions about other people. Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 17:17
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    Eh, sarcasm coping strategy #2 seems more likely to elicit feelings of annoyance and more sarcasm. At least, that's what it would do for me, especially if I thought the message was obvious or that the person should have been able to figure it out. Excellent post, though, and well reasoned. We are a lot more alike than you had originally thought. I've had the same experience with AIM and girlfriends, and have found that I mostly tell jokes to amuse myself rather than others.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 17:47
  • Is there a paragraph missing between the somewhat negatively stated (possibly even sarcastic 😀) "some people place more of a focus on the language itself than the purpose" and "[you should] encode your idea to written text in a way that maximizes [comprehension]"? The latter is for me the very reason to correct grammar and spelling where I see fit!
    – Jongware
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 17:57
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    @RadLexus No, but I'm totally open to suggestions here. I'm kind of bummed you pointed that out because I actually was conscious of it and hoped nobody would notice. My intent wasn't to be critical (actually I explicitly searched for something like "grammar police" for this reason). Sort of ironic in a post about communication. I don't place much importance on the language itself but have no problem with doing so, and I guess it came out in text. Let me see if I can neutralize that a bit.
    – Jason C
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 18:22
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    Much much better :) FWIW, as I am not a native speaker of English, I need to be very conscious of what I write. In lieu of the current discussion this is actually a plus, since if I want to be sarcastic, I have to think hard on how to inject it such that my intention to comes across. Fortunately, I find it not that much necessary. (Except for "Stating the obvious". "You thought it would magically make it work?". When explicitly called for, I just cannot not say that.)
    – Jongware
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 18:22
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Rather than warning the author, I suggest we turn it into a teaching moment for the reader. When including subtle elements of sarcasm in your content, allow the author to use some form of markup which, on hover by the confused user, would display a sarcasm sign so they can better understand what is being said, and particularly in which way it was meant.

I don't know if the previous paragraph was an example of sarcasm, nor do I have a way to indicate whether or not it was. But I really think we're getting too nitpicky here.

Personally I actually like a bit of humor in answers, and even in these cases I don't think the sarcasm affected the answer quality per se. None were rude or offensive in the least.

If there isn't a problem, there isn't a problem. If you see that a user is confused and you can help clarify the situation using an edit, by all means go for it. But let's not go and police every single little detail of a post, especially for rare events as you describe, which are easily addressed with tools already at our disposal.

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  • The quote you used was intended to show that I have no intention of policing anyone. It seems like this question has become a kind of referendum/proxy for something else on meta that I'm apparently out of the loop on. That doesn't mean there aren't problems sometimes. I'm not disagreeing that they are rare either, just trying to come up with the best thing to do when I see them. Answer, seemingly, is don't ask meta ;) Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:42
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    ... I don't know where this comment is coming from to be honest. The question is fine and my answer addresses only that. We have enough means at our disposal to deal with problems we see. I haven't seen a rampant abuse of sarcasm in answers which confused so many that we need new features to deal with it. That's all. All who disagree can either provide their own answer or downvote this one.
    – Bart
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:45
  • "[Leaving] a comment that gently warns people to remember that not everyone is fluent in English" is a gentle form of policing, @NicolasHolthaus .
    – duplode
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:46
  • @duplode ...but I didn't do it, so it wasn't. And I asked on meta because I was worried about over-policing. Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:46
  • @NicolasHolthaus But you asked us if that is a good idea, and some of us are answering that it is probably unnecessary.
    – duplode
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:48
  • @duplode yup, and I took that to heart. Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:49
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    @NicolasHolthaus Reinforcing what Bart has said just above: your Meta question is perfectly fine, and you did well in asking it. The reactions to it are merely due to disagreement with the suggestion.
    – duplode
    Commented Feb 5, 2017 at 16:56

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