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This user, posted this question https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41888055/error-when-opening-up-a-new-swift-playground

The edit history (screenshot below) shows a timeframe of the history of abusive edits and the rollbacks/edits to remove the abuse.

enter image description here

I've raised two mod flags, one after the abuse continued. The roll backs would've automatically raised mod flags, plus users have been flagging comments.

There were many comments that were flagged and deleted. What I'm not understanding is why is this account not put into some temporary suspension to stop this user from creating abusive edits and posting abusive comments?

Should we have some automatic flag trip that will temporarily suspend an account?

Conclusion: It took approx 28 minutes for the account to be put into a suspension. Too long imo, that user's need to stick around and raise flags for a rage attack.

The mods do a great job, but cannot be here 24/7 that's why I'm asking, is there a way we can stop this kind of nonsense sooner if there is no mod available?

Possibly a short automatic account suspension until a mod can review it?

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  • 4
    Because moderators are not always active 24/7. I'm commuting but have dealt with the situation. By the time they had added more abuse they were already on a warning.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:24
  • 5
    @MartijnPieters thanks for handling and I understand that mods cannot be here 24/7 that's why I'm asking, is there a way we can stop this kind of nonsense sooner if there is no mod available?
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:26
  • 12
    Meh. The user was clearly in the wrong here, but so were the non-moderators who continued to engage in rollbacks. A few swear words being visible on the site for 20–30 minutes isn't actually hurting anything. Flag it and move on. It will eventually be dealt with. In the mean time, we're all adults.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:29
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    @CodyGray: Always edit out swearing. The rollback actually help in getting it flagged (Rollbacks trigger a flag after a certain amount of'm)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:31
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    @CodyGray there were a load of comments that were deleted and that takes up user time. It's annoying and time consuming to have a user continue like that and for regulars to sit there like traffic cops waiting for something to be done. It went on for almost half an hour. And it's not ok for people to be slathering abuse on the site. It's unacceptable.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:38
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    I didn't say it was acceptable. "The user was clearly in the wrong here". And certainly if you see swearing, you should edit it out. But if the user rolls it back, it does absolutely no good to engage in a rollback/edit war with that person. Raise a moderator flag and leave the question alone. You don't need to do a bunch of rollbacks to get an automatically triggered flag; you already raised one manually that was even more descriptive. Users do not need to "sit there like traffic cops". If someone persists in being abusive after you try to help them, there's nothing else you can do.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:41
  • @CodyGray ok fair enough. My misunderstanding. Yes I see what you mean about edit wars. I still think it would be good for some type of temporary suspension to be tripped, after "x" number of rude comments being successfully deleted or 'x' number of rollbacks. It's hard to leave rude comments on the site. But engaging the user is also not good
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:47
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    @Cerbrus: no, don't edit war. When a user persists, flag and move on. If the language is directly targeting (and threats to users qualify), flag as rude or offensive to trigger an auto-delete of the post (plus other account penalties). No-one here has to babysit such users. Do you bit, move on to better posts that deserve your attention.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:03
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    @Cerbrus: in fact, I think that the continued editing actually slowed down the response, because people were not seeing the behaviour and did not flag as rude.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:03
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    @YvetteColomb: we get auto flags on rude comments now, and are evaluating how useful these are (there is a lot of noise in those). And I'm sure you have been here long enough to know what rude flags on the post do to an account.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:05
  • @MartijnPieters so the mods are getting all the rude flags on comments? that may be a bit busy (I've never seen a mod dashboard in use). Hm. Most of my suggestions are to alleviate weight from the mods, to make it easier for mods. I know you get a lot of flags to deal with.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:07
  • @Cerbrus: What Martijn said - similar reason why we ask people to refrain from editing spam.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:10
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    @YvetteColomb: the auto-flag is for comments in aggregate, not for each individual one, to ensure we don't miss a rude-commenting-spree that the community deletes (as we potentially would never see such a spree otherwise).
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:11
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    @Cerbrus: Edit out offensive content, unless it's clear that you and the other party are just going to perpetuate an edit war in doing so.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:46
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    @BoltClock: do you know / are you allowed to say what the criteria are for the automated rollback aar flag?
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 9:18

2 Answers 2

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There are automated systems in place already. They were working. Let me explain.

Early this morning (just before 07:00UTC), when I was getting ready to catch a train, I caught the first 'rude or abusive' flag (singular) on that post.

It wouldn't be the first time that an XCode update broke things for multiple people, so I was working on the assumption that there could be more cases like this, and looked if things could be salvaged. As it was clear the user was frustrated with software, and not yet people (the disparaging remarks about Apple and their employees notwhithstanding), I marked the flags as disputed (both in an attempt to clear the downvotes a little, in case the post would improve from here on out, and because the language could have been edited out by others too), cleaned up the language in the post, and send the user a mod message, warning about their behaviour. In most cases, this is enough, and user behaviour improves.

I checked for a few minutes afterwards but still had to attend personal matters such as actually getting to work. When I checked the queue a quarter of an hour or so later, the user had clearly gone off the rails again, and I suspended the account, deleted the post.

So what mechanism are in place when there is no moderator is there to handle this?

First of all, the downvotes on the post limited visibility. Quite quickly the post is removed from consideration for the homepage. Only people watching specific flags, or a chatroom fed by bots looking for such posts, will still see the activity.

Next, the 'rude' flags on the comments were taking care of the worst of the language there. I had cleared the first single 'rude' flag on the post, but some more flags were being cast in when the behaviour continued; if the number of flags on the post had reached 6, then the post would have been deleted, the user would have received a 100 point reputation penalty, the IP address would have been fed to the anti-spam system and the account blocked from posting more questions.

I do note that in the lifetime of the site, 28 minutes is really not very long at all. It only took so long because there was only one more rude flag on that post after I looked at it the first time. That's probably because the post was no longer being listed on the homepage, but it appears people were not all that offended by the user. Plus the edits the OP made were being rolled back quite expertly so not everyone would have seen the language.

I see no need for additional flags. Had I not stepped in, I'm sure the rude flag count would have quickly reached the required level to stop the user altogether.

Now, for future events, I urge people not to engage in a rollback war. One of the reasons so few rude flags were cast is that few people saw the behaviour. When you see such a user persist on editing, stop warring, flag the post, and move on to better posts. You did your job, you don't need to baby sit this one. More community members will step in to keep the flags coming and the post will be deleted.

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  • That's a good step through the process and I didn't think of it this way, with the downvotes taking it out of the view of the general population. Being in chat rooms, I forget what it's like being a mainstream user (i.e. one not obsessed with stamping out spam and rudeness lol) Ironically, I didn't rude flag the post, as with vandalism, I give the user the chance to have the post restored. The user did ask how to delete it in the end. so no happy with how things went. I was also editing it, and going through the post for profanity after I first rolled it back, when you did your first edit.
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 8:05
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'Should we have some automatic flag trip that will temporarily suspend an account?""

No.

This has too much potential for abuse. If user A doesn't like user B, user A can get some of his friends to flag user B, getting user B suspended.

This wasn't "handled" faster because apparently no mods looked at the flags for that question, in those 19 minutes.

Considering the amount of activity on SO, and the amount of flags this must result in, I'm not too surprised the flags aren't handles instantaneously.

I don't think it'd be fair to expect <15 min response times from a team of volunteers. I also don't think there's a "faster" way to handle this.

Rollback wars already automatically get flagged. If it's really serious, you can also flag it with a custom flag.

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  • There could be stiff penalties for abuse of flags
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:25
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    @YvetteColomb: Penalties that would only be applied after the innocent user was suspended, had to dispute the suspension, and wasn't able to use SO during that time. Think of the penalty as an insurance: Sure, in the end the victim is (mostly) compensated, but there's a lot of headaches involved in getting there.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:26
  • I've edited my question. Sorry it affects your answer, but I think it's better to come up with a good idea
    – user3956566
    Commented Jan 27, 2017 at 7:28
  • "This has too much potential for abuse. If user A doesn't like user B, user A can get some of his friends to flag user B, getting user B suspended." Exactly what happens with the "peer reviewed" chat flags. Commented Jan 28, 2017 at 19:06

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