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I'm talking specifically about this one where I intended to remain ironic but have verged on the sarcastic. But this is really a follow-up to Should we add a "Do my work for me" close reason?.

The OP was essentially asking how to open a file in Perl. We still have no close reason for such questions, and in theory we should be politely explaining all of the alternatives and linking to official documentation, or perhaps doing all of that once and picking out all subsequent culprits as being already asked. That way Stack Overflow becomes a secondary repository for an (out of date and reinterpreted) language definition for all programming and data languages.

I don't think this helps the questioners or answerers, Stack Overflow itself, or the world as a whole, to nursemaid people through the individual operators of every language. As I pointed out to the OP in my comment, he took all of five minutes to discover for himself how to open a file. Sadly, he then came back to say "Yay! Done that! What now?"

All of this will teach people nothing about programming, if only because a programming language is as vital and intuitive as any natural spoken language.

I have written here before that I understand that writing a rule may be semantically awkward, or it may be in conflict with the financial goals of Stack Exchange. But it is hard to believe that Bohemian's post with 409 votes cannot be answered better than with a firm jaw.

I am asking that a proper way to discourage trivial and lazy questions be designed and implemented promptly. I believe it is hugely overdue, and I cannot imagine anyone being disadvantaged by something done properly along these lines.

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    Did you honestly expect the user to realize the error of their ways, apologize for being inconsiderate, and strive to avoid this behavior in the future? I mean, it happens for one out of every few thousand such users, but you can't really expect them to actually be willing/able to act appropriately. Lower your expectations. You fed a help vampire. It's an easy trap to fall into, but fall into it you did.
    – Servy
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:40
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    @Servy: My concern is not with this individual case—I linked to it because it represents much of what is infuriating about the Stack Overflow environment day to day—but that there is no standing rule that says such questions are unacceptable. I ended up dancing around the guy without authoritative backup, and I am sure I could have done better. I feel that I didn't fall into the trap, because I got them to go away and read for five minutes. But that shouldn't have taken the time and words that I expended to dislodge them into helping themselves.
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:43
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    @Servy: I don't understand how your comment is relevant. My point is that such questions should be open to a vote to close, while you're telling me I can just walk away. Then those thirsty for points will answer the lazy question anyway and the OP will do it over and over again. That makes Stack Overflow better how?
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:58
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    You're not asking for an option to vote to close these questions. You're asking if your comment is out of line. If you'd asked for a new close reason that would dramatically change the question. If that's what you want to ask about, then don't ask, "is my comment out of order?"
    – Servy
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:59
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    Changing your question to just ask two different questions is even worse. If you don't care about whether or not your comment is appropriate, then don't ask about the appropriateness of the comment. If all you care about is a new close reason being added, then make a proposal that just asks for a new close reason, without tacking on an unrelated question.
    – Servy
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:02
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    @Servy: I think this is a little sad. An idea that very many people would sympathise with is downvoted on what would be a "technicality" in court. Of course I can refine my language and come back and say the same thing again, but it's ridiculous that I should have to. At present, no one has a proper counter to Should we add a "Do my work for me" close reason?. A similar thing happens several times every day on Stack Overflow and it is not being addressed because the liberals overwhelm. I'll get my tie right next time too.
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:14
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    Maybe it's just me, but I don't consider, "asking a completely different question than I wanted to ask" a "technicality". Fortunately it's a mistake easily enough corrected, simply ask a question in which you ask what you actually wanted to ask about. (Note that that feature request is a duplicate, so be sure to look through past proposals and similar proposals to ensure that you're adding something new to the discussion.)
    – Servy
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:15
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    @Servy: You done? Looking at your profile, it seems I've encountered someone who knows a lot about talking about talking about things, and a bit of C#. Several people have understood my post and contributed positively, while you and your entourage have ground it to a halt. Unless you have another motive, I don't see how squashing criticism helps any of us, and it seems that you're more of a failed politician than a programmer. You haven't answered a C# question for days now but you like to involve yourself as a meta troll. I'm intrigued as to why you would be like that, but I don't like it.
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:46
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    the OP will do it over and over again - They won't once they've been question banned, which is inevitable if they keep asking bad questions, even if they aren't also off topic or closeable.
    – BSMP
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:48

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From skimming the comments, the point that honest and innocent comment discourse ends is about...here:

@ampry: Okay, and what problem have you encountered that you need help with? – Borodin

I need to read in this CSV file and insert it (using the above code) into the first worksheet in my workbook – arnpry

I have not gotten this far yet. – arnpry

Right there would've been a good time to stop and reevaluate their question. They've got code, but it's unclear as to what's broken with it. Or, it could be that they're just stuck at that point and don't know how to proceed.

In the former case, it's clear-cut that it should've been closed as, "why isn't this code working", but if it's the latter case (and I do think it is), you have to really consider a few things here.

  • Is the OP looking for someone to do their work for them? Perhaps then the question becomes too broad.
  • Has the OP made an earnest attempt at reading the file into their code? Perhaps then the question is answerable, and providing an answer would be sufficient.

I have no notion of Perl whatsoever, so I wouldn't be able to answer the second question, but it does have a sneaking suspicion of being like the first question - they want someone to do their work for them.

In that instance, I personally would downvote and move on. No reason to engage in comments with the user that will likely be deleted and/or forgotten about. Just leave your opinion that you don't think the question is very good and disengage with the OP.

The reason for this? While I think you meant well with this comment block...

@ampry: I've been trying to be as nice as I could. You don't really have a problem that's so severe that you need to take it to the whole of the world (or at least those that are on Stack Overflow) to help fix it. In the end I asked you a question that pushed you to go and discover for yourself how to open a file in Perl. It took you all of five minutes, and unless you are never going to touch Perl again I think those minutes were worthwhile. The people on Stack Overflow like to help people who have helped themselves, and it will be obvious if you haven't tried anything at all. – Borodin

I'll bet that you will remember how to open a file. Doesn't that feel good? Wouldn't you like to know all of the language in the same way? – Borodin

...it makes you sound like a jerk, even though I strongly doubt you're trying for that.

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  • "They've got code, but it's unclear as to what's broken with it" Did you read the question?
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:50
  • @Borodin: Yes. "I need to do X. Here is my code." Where in their question did they say what they were doing was broken? Where in their question did they say they didn't know what to do?
    – Makoto
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:50
  • The I'm unclear what you're saying. They may as well have said "Here's my code: c++". Are you suggesting that there was no question?
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:52
  • @Borodin: That's kind of my point. If you want to boil this down to its essence, it's a code dump. They want you to solve their problem. It's ill-advised to get entangled with users who just want someone to write their code for them.
    – Makoto
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:53
  • And how isn't that also my point? Given the content of the question, there should be a reason to close it, but there isn't so I cajoled the OP into taking a step themselves. That's a win, but then they came back. I won't go on forever, and the site rules don't allow me to cut them short.
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 18:54
  • @Borodin so.... shouldn't the "debugging questions must include" off-topic reason be exactly for situations like that? .... Aaaand just read the question linked... forget it.
    – Patrice
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:03
  • @Patrice: Sadly, no. Take a look at the link at the top of my question
    – Borodin
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:04
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    The second comment seems to be the "kicker" that makes the first comment sound rude. With only that first comment, beginning with "I've been trying to be as nice as I could", I don't think there would be a problem. It doesn't make @borodin sound like a jerk to me. Or maybe I'm a jerk and can't be trusted. Hard to say.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:04
  • @Borodin yeah, just edited my comment, realizing my mistake :P. Oftentimes it fits... not this one :(
    – Patrice
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:04
  • @CodyGray: I did say it was a comment block... ;)
    – Makoto
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:05
  • They were posted as two separate comments. Oh, or you were just defending your assessment as being of both comments together? Yeah, I got that.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:07
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    @CodyGray: ...Yes. I know this. I implied that they were even in the question. The two comments together definitely come across as harsher than the first one by itself.
    – Makoto
    Jan 23, 2017 at 19:07

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