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I asked a well-formed and clear question (in my opinion, that is), but the community thought -3, and I got confused. I get that there's some cranky folks out there so -1 is nothing to nag about, but when we encounter a collected set of multiple crankies I start to worry that the problem might be me, not them.

The best guess I can make is that I should use a different tag set. Is there a tag that says differences between XX, YY, ZZ, etc.? I haven't found such a tag.

Is there anything else that I can do to improve the posting?

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  • 15
    Tricking the quality filter by including non code as code, for one. Zero research effort, for another... and the list continue.
    – Braiam
    Dec 25, 2016 at 15:24
  • 4
    Ahem... Didn't realize that the "tricking" was frowned upon. In this particular case there's no code of relevance as the question is about rendering as a whole. Still a good point about the research. If the list continues for real, please shoot ahead. I have time to improve the question right now so I'll be happy to do so. :) Dec 25, 2016 at 15:27
  • I don't think it deserves -6 downvotes in the current question state. It was brave of you not to delete and try reposting another question. Many users would have done that. It doesn't deserve -5 either but better. Dec 25, 2016 at 21:56
  • 1
    @Jean-FrançoisFabre Woah, i just saw that there's 9 downvotes. This is my all-time-low. Sadly, it only confirm my theory that many, too many users (a) jump to conclusions prematurely and (b) follow the votes of previous voters. Earlier today, I had a user (skilled as I know from before). He shot me down posting irrelevant links and links with no answers on Git forums. When I pointed that out - no reply. Just waiting for the poo storm to hit that one too. People be cranky when the holiday time is going to an end, hehe. Dec 25, 2016 at 22:13
  • 1
    that's the meta-effect. Note that you're getting 10+ rep points ATM because of the makeup upvotes of people seeing that as unfair downvoting. I sometimes wonder if posting to meta is a good idea. It attracts downvotes to your original question and to your meta question (a meta question not properly downvoted is not a good meta question :)) Dec 25, 2016 at 22:25
  • @Jean-FrançoisFabre True. But it's not about the rep. It's about thecrappy attitude. I don't give a flying bird that a bunch of sheep follow the lead but I've had colleagues and students who intentionally chose not to be a member because of that. And that hurts us all. My idea is to force downvoters to explain the downvote. That's a great way to improve the question too. Nevertheless, Merry Christmas to everybody. Dec 25, 2016 at 22:36
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    Side note: "I haven't googled the issue" text in the post is essentially equivalent of "feel free to downvote the question I just need an answer now". It is nice that you openly say so, but confusing why you expect some positive votes for just posted question explicitly showing no research. If question is generally useful - it may eventually collect upvotes for it - but initial votes are mostly on quality of the post. Dec 26, 2016 at 8:11
  • @KonradViltersten I don't agree. SO is a great site. "My idea is to force downvoters to explain the downvote": that could be a good idea, but would limit the number of legitimate downvotes as well. Why not forcing the comments on the upvotes as well (to avoid stupid upvoting) ? And SO is not so bad a community. Don't generalize. There are a lot of users, and downvoting/upvoting is sometimes random. Maybe people seing a "high rep" user asking a bad/average question tend to downvote more... Dec 26, 2016 at 9:56
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    @Jean-FrançoisFabre Oh, I was unclear. Sorry about that and please let me set it straight. I too think that SO is a great site. In fact, it's more of an institution that just "a site". That's why, in my view, it needs to be expected to be significantly better than just a site. If you get caught for speeding - well, that happens. But if the Pope would speed, that's bad. Really bad. As for the upvotes, it might be applicable with comments too but not necessarily. My view is that ups and downs are used for different purposes. Dec 26, 2016 at 10:49
  • @Jean-FrançoisFabre Ups are useful to rank good posts against each other. Downs are useful to eliminate posts. Often, I see post X with +4 and post Y with +12. Hmm... Let's pick the better of the good ones. But I never see a post P with -3 and post R with -9 and think: "hmm... let's pick the least bad". I'd argue that 99%, once a post is negative, it's negative. So -1 is OK but -10 is quality-wise equivalent to -1. Only difference being the cut of rep and WTF'ness of the poster. How about requiring comments when downvoting an already negatively ranked post? Dec 26, 2016 at 10:54
  • problem is: if you comment on a downvote, you are then the target for serial downvoting. People often shoot the messenger, when there are 3 or 4 downvotes already. I got 2 revenge downvotes for flagging as duplicate (without downvoting) to help the user. No need to say I downvoted his question afterwards :) Dec 26, 2016 at 10:54
  • @Jean-FrançoisFabre I'm so sorry to hear that. Of course, that's not OK. I'd suggest mesureas as anonymous downvote comments, ban on revenge downvotes, grace period for voting after receiving a downvote and - my perosnal favorite - make it expensive to downvote. If an enraged idiot wants to downvote you (oh, why do people do that for duck's sake, typo intended), let him pay -10 and burn you with -1. I think that'd stop most of that. Dec 26, 2016 at 10:57
  • you can try to solve the problem by changing the rules, you'll get more perverse effects with the new rules. The system is not as bad as it is, it has its drawbacks but very well balanced, with scripts to detect serial downvoting, flagging, ... not as bad as it is. Dec 26, 2016 at 11:00
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    @Jean-FrançoisFabre Oh, I do agree on that. We could get a ripple effect and that would harm the awesomeness of SO in the end. People are experts on corrupting a system in the most inventive ways, hehe. Dec 26, 2016 at 11:01
  • 3
    Please keep the comments on-topic. If you want to discuss downvotes in general, move the conversation to chat or ask another question. Dec 26, 2016 at 14:14

2 Answers 2

15

The problem with this question is that it contains lots of unnecessary information. The actual question is really simple and could be worded like that:

How can I enable ES6 in JSFiddle for browsers which doesn't support ES6 (like IE)?

I think the reason of downvotes might be that this question doesn't show any research effort, and perhaps some people think that you could find the answer by yourself. However, I don't think it should be closed. It has received an answer which is upvoted and accepted, so the question is not unclear, because at least some people managed to understand it. Voting to close it as "lacking MCVE" is ridiculous, because this question doesn't seek debugging help.

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    Enhancing overall quality by detecting the real question without the red herrings and answering that one is for sure aligned with the founding principle of SO "make answered viable questions easily findable". +1 for the summarizing part and the suggestion.
    – Dilettant
    Dec 26, 2016 at 18:19
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    @Dilettant Red herring is to my knowledge an intentional attempt to mislead the reader. In this case, I was uncertain how much information that was needed. Unfortunate diagnostics, possibly. Once I got downvoted for not providing all the info that the replier wanted and the content was that it's better to write a (tiny) bit too much than too little. I still maintain people be cranky after the holidays. Dec 26, 2016 at 21:18
  • @KonradViltersten w.r.t. The red herrings fine print you are for sure right ;-) but I care more about the many perceiving not the few providing. I did not want to imply the info was provided intentionally to distract. I often take the drive by down voting and "educating" personal and feel hurt - too large communities come with a price I fear and mutual benefit may be a folklore in some regions of SO (or at times as you express)
    – Dilettant
    Dec 26, 2016 at 21:25
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    That's not a question that's a ridicule. It's exactly the same as asking How do I make my older brother younger than me and make him listen to my future advice. Now where do I find this topic and down-vote it with confidence that I'm doing this community a service. Dec 28, 2016 at 5:19
  • @BekimBacaj It's really not the same thing. I find the remark a bit excessive and exaggerated. And if you'd read the question, as I hope you have, the link to the question is there. On the first line. Perhaps less trolling would be in place, please? Dec 28, 2016 at 14:24
  • @KonradViltersten I didn't call you names! And you didn't answer my qyestion. Factually it is your question that is the very definition of "trolling" this community. Firstly the ES6 is still a working draft. Secondly - your question is equivalent to asking how can i enable NN4.6 support of a div tag in AOL. And that's ridiculous as are your exaggerated complains on down-votes of your formal non question question. Dec 28, 2016 at 16:47
  • @BekimBacaj I didn't say you called me names. However, you asked where's the post so you can downvote it. The link to the post is provided in the first sentence of my question. Can't really see the point of asking where it is unless you (a) didn't even bother to read or (b) try to troll. But I admit that there might be other possibilities that I haven't realized. Occam razor applies. (Not trying to insult you or anything but I simply don't get your comparisons not questions.) Dec 29, 2016 at 23:54
-2

You can't improve it more than it's current state:

How can I enable ES6 in JSFiddle for browsers which don't support ES6 (like IE)?

That said, I'm strongly of the opinion that questions like these are off-topic to Stack Overflow.

Stack Overflow is supposed to be a resource for good Q/A.
Questions like "What does this button do?" / "Where's the button to do this?" are material for the software's manual. It's not good Q/A.

Q: "Yea, But JSFiddle is a programming tool. Aren't questions about tools used by programmers for programming on-topic?"
A: Visual Studio is a tool used by programmers for programming, but "How to open a solution/project/file" Is still a off-topic question.

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  • Furthermore, I disagree with the "hoarding" mentality of some re-open votes: "Some people have found it useful and upvoted it". Some people aren't our quality guideline, are they?
    – Cerbrus
    Dec 27, 2016 at 14:30
  • It seems that the counter-point to that Q-A was left out. It said that "But how to open a solution so that it automatically creates a Core project? might be on-topic, wouldn't it?". Also, while I agree that "hoarding" is improper, I'd like to ask you to consider that it goes both ways. I strongly disagree with down/close-voting in hoards. The rules of the community state that 5 open votes means that the community wants the question to be open. (There might be more who want it open, as far we know, but there are no more than 5 that wanted it to be closed.) Dec 27, 2016 at 14:49
  • @KonradViltersten: The question was close-voted by a total of 10 users. Not 5. It was re-open voted by a total of 8 users. One of those 8 is a moderator, and 2 of those 8 are involved in the question itself, and thus biased. The question is currently at +10/-17. So far, the close / downvotes are still outnumbering the open / upvotes. Your "counter point" involves a more complicated question. That's comparing apples and pears.
    – Cerbrus
    Dec 27, 2016 at 14:56
  • "voting in hoards" What? That's not what I meant with "Hoarding". Besides, you drew attention to the question on meta. It's only logical that more people vote on it.
    – Cerbrus
    Dec 27, 2016 at 14:58
  • I see. I wasn't aware of the other votes (thinking that after 5 cast the status simply changed). Thanks for explaining that. Would you mind elaborating what you meant by "hoarding", please? As to the counter-point, I can't see how it's "complicated". I believe that there's a gray'ish area what's on/off-topic and I respect your opinion there. I disagree, though. :) Dec 27, 2016 at 15:11
  • I mean that there's the mentality to undelete questions just because someone considers it useful. I don 't see the point in keeping that stuff around ("hoarding" it)
    – Cerbrus
    Dec 27, 2016 at 15:13
  • 1
    Oh, I see. Yeah, I missed your point there. Thanks for the explanation. In that case, my point is not that we seem to frown upon "hoarding" but we tolerate "bashing" (in lack of better word, please substitute a better term if you can think of one). Allowing stuff to lay around isn't a bad thing. Not everything is applicable, of course. But you need to keep in mind that SO is used by some very rookie and inexperienced folk too. Something that's blatantly obvious and border-line off-topic to you, might be a life saving post for someone else. SO isn't running out of HDD space, is it? :) Dec 27, 2016 at 15:41
  • -1 from me; I disagree, and your example of VS opening being off-topic is factually incorrect. What's allowed are programming-related questions, which include tool questions. Whether they're fundamental or not is irrelevant. What's "good" is subjective. A question shouldn't be closed just because you wouldn't have to ask it.
    – TylerH
    Dec 27, 2016 at 15:49
  • @KonradViltersten: Bashing / Quality control. It's a matter of perspective.
    – Cerbrus
    Dec 27, 2016 at 16:22
  • @Cerbrus Agreed on that. I hope we also agree that it goes both ways. I'm aware that it's a tricky matter depending on subjective judgment calls, That's why it's very important to show respect, tolerance and empathy. I hope I do that and I do apologize if I've failed. Dec 28, 2016 at 14:30

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