45

There is a particular user - a prolific editor with close to 50000 edits - who I frequently notice has edited inline links to Wikipedia into posts. For example, his most recent page of Revisions in his activity history includes editing the Wikipedia links into each of the following sentences/phrases:

From Apache version check fails:

Platform: Linux (SUSE)

From Where are my Windows server Subversion files located?:

I have just set up Subversion on Windows Server 2003

From Compiling libapache2-svn for Apache 2.4.4:

I want to use Apache 2.4.4 with SVN on Ubuntu server 12.04 (Precise Pangolin).

From https://stackoverflow.com/a/18118562/1709587:

I've asked Ondřej Surý on Launchpad to add Subversion to his Apache PPA.

From Pathfinding 2D Java game?:

I'm currently writing a very basic Java game based on the idea of Theme Hospital.

Are these edits, in the view of the community, welcome?

Personally, I mostly find these links to be a nuisance. I generally avoid Wikipedia as a technical source because I find it is usually overly waffly, focused more on history than on technical documentation, and too likely to have technical errors for me to trust it. (Of course, your judgements may vary.) Additionally, I think that many of the things that this user's edits turn into Wikipedia links either have much more natural link targets or needn't have links at all. For instance:

  • SUSE has an official homepage
  • I think that close to 100% of readers know what Windows Server 2003 is without needing an explanatory link
  • Similarly, it's unclear to me what value somebody reading a question about using Apache on Ubuntu 12.04 could possibly get from a link to the section about Ubuntu 12.04 on Wikipedia. What's such a link for?
  • Both the Launchpad and PPA links go to surprising destinations; I would expect them to respectively take me to the Launchpad homepage and the PPA, respectively. Isn't making them Wikipedia links misleading here?

Pretty much the only link that strikes me as perhaps being useful is the Theme Hospital one, and only because the following things are all true in that particular case:

  • There exists no official homepage to link to
  • Theme Hospital a non-technical topic; people following a link for more information just need a layman's summary of what it is, not any kind of technical explanation
  • The Wikipedia article contains all the information that somebody reading the post needs in its first sentence

(And even then, the utility is limited - a Google search returns the Theme Hospital Wikipedia page as the first result.)

When linking to information about technologies, on the other hand, it seems to me that Wikipedia is a fairly unhelpful source. I'm happy to find inline links in posts to official homepages, official documentation, or to third-party technical documentation of decent quality (like MDN) - such links are useful to me when verifying claims made in the post or as starting points for my own research. But why, exactly, would I take a tangent from reading a question about compiling Apache on Ubuntu to read what Wikipedia has to say about Ubuntu 12.04? That seems like an infodump that the reader is unlikely to want or to find relevant - and if I do want to gather such general knowledge, I can Google for it myself.

However, as with the last occasion that I systematically disagreed with many of the edits of a single editor, I concede that this is all subjective; perhaps others find value in these links that I do not. So, I ask Meta: should the user who is editing in these Wikipedia links desist from doing so, or are they helpful?

17
  • 19
    If a product / company / whatever has their own website, I'd consider a wikipedia link to be unhelpful. And even then, do we really need to link to everything? The "<Brand> Server <year>" links are quite unnecessary. It's not like info on those products is difficult to find. We don't need to link to every single product used.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 22, 2016 at 14:31
  • 14
    No, I don't think this is helpful. Hopefully Peter will see this question and tweak his little edit-generator app to stop doing this for all proper nouns. Maybe make a grammar mistake in the title to make sure he finds it? :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 22, 2016 at 14:52
  • 2
    @CodyGray I've already notified him via one of his recently-edited posts. I hadn't realised that Edit Overflow existed or was authored by Peter; is it in fact responsible for generating these edits? I can't tell whether or to what extent you're joking. :)
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 22, 2016 at 14:57
  • 1
    I have no idea if it actually supports such a feature, but I know he does use a tool to help him generate these edits, so I wouldn't be surprised if it does. So half joking, half not.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 22, 2016 at 14:58
  • 1
    @CodyGray [status-complete]
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 3:55
  • 4
    To be clear though, this user wasn't only editing the links right? I feel like Wikipedia is a always a good place to link because you can usually get a clear idea of what the product is, without the visual noise of a Web 3.0 site with all the scrolling. Seems like all these edits were actually helpful, but you're specifically asking about the WP links. Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 4:11
  • 7
    Sure, the edits are otherwise great. I hope my comment didn't come across as offensive or unappreciative regarding Peter's efforts. He makes a lot of great edits to improve grammar, formatting, etc. My point (and I believe Mark's) is that editing in links to Wikipedia for random technologies is unhelpful. You probably already know what it is if you're reading questions about it, and if you don't, you can simply Google it. That's just about as fast as clicking a Wikipedia link. Besides, you might want want to use Wikipedia, as Mark points out, in cases where the project has an official page.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 7:25
  • 1
    @Braiam Sorry, what part is [status-complete]?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 7:26
  • 6
    This doesn't feel like it's appropriate or necessary at all.
    – Pekka
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 7:55
  • Have you notified the user in question of the existence of this discussion?
    – Daedalus
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 11:22
  • @Daedalus I tried to notify him by comment on Stack Overflow, but perhaps he missed it - I've just given him a nudge via Twitter.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 12:59
  • @MarkAmery Edit overflow link is off-line. 23 dec 16:15 UTC - given that Cloudflare says so, maybe its temporary.
    – Jan Doggen
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 16:17
  • Here's one from HNQ that I just found myself on, ironically an hour or so after reading this very post. A link to the Wikipedia page on Notepad, really? lol Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:01
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit and it doesn't even go to a page that identifies the program being used, but rather a disambiguation page, on which 4 out of 5 options are clearly not the intended meaning. :/ I'm increasingly thinking that these links are being added by Peter's editing tool; even if he thought that adding a link to explain what Notepad is was useful (which we both disagree with) surely he would not have linked to a disambiguation page if he were adding the link himself?
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:14
  • 5
    @MarkAmery: If that's so, he's still responsible. Perhaps a case study on why we shouldn't automate this kind of thing, for fear of just making things worse. Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:24

2 Answers 2

24

You're right, this is probably a little subjective (in that some people no doubt think it's a good idea), but in my opinion, this is not helpful or useful at all. Unless the question or answer revolves around the technology, or hinges on the understanding of the technology, there's no reason to link to a resource.

A link to a resource or Wikipedia page is a "read more about this technology here" message; if I simply need to know how to fix a problem for a Ubuntu app, there's no reason to send me to the Wikipedia page for Ubuntu.

I can't think of many instances where a Wikipedia page would be useful versus a developer's website listing an API or official documentation, instead.

Unfortunately it's also not explicitly against the rules. Unless he's harming the question or gaming the system in some way, moderators will likely just say "do your best to avoid him".

18
  • 5
    One exception would be uncommon abbreviations. I just edited a HTPC link into a Super User question. I do either this or expand the abbreviation between parentheses.
    – Jan Doggen
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 16:18
  • 4
    @JanDoggen Yes, if it's an esoteric or even uncommon acronym or abbreviation, it should be spelled out on first use, with the acronym or abbreviation in parentheses following it. Then you can use the abbreviation or acronym only from there on out. Linking to it on first use is OK, too, I suppose, instead of spelling out and parenthetically explaining.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 16:24
  • The "rules" question is one I hope not to have to get into. I've deliberately refrained from reverting Peter's edits when I've seen them so far because I wanted to at some point put this question to Meta (something that I kept on forgetting to do for many months), but if they weren't added by him I'd likely edit the links out of most of the posts that he's added to. That would soon lead absurdity and require mod action, though, since we're supposed to refrain from edit warring and instead let content disputes be resolved by the mods. Hey mods, want 50000 flags?
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 18:59
  • The sensible way for things to proceed is clearly to achieve a community consensus and for all parties to agree to abide by that consensus, without any men with sticks getting involved. I'd've been happy to drop the whole matter if the community had been against me and said that it liked having these links (that's why I sought community feedback here), and I expect and hope that Peter will likewise have no problem ceasing to make these edits in light of the apparent consensus against them here.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:01
  • 2
    @MarkAmery If you are thinking that "were this any other user, I'd just do X", that tells me it's not about the action anymore, but about the person... which is bad. If this action is problematic/shouldn't be done, then it should be so because of the action, not because of who's doing it. To your second point, a "meta consensus" is non-binding, and if the user in question feels vindicated in his edits, he very well could refuse to change his behavior. So long as moderators don't disagree, then he is within his rights to just keep doing what he's doing.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:02
  • 2
    @TylerH my reason for special treatment of Peter here is that I've seen scores of these edits, 100% of them by him (since no other prolific editor adds these kind of links), and it seems rude to revert a particular user's edits en masse, even if they weren't found by deliberate targeting of that user, without first seeking consensus that this is okay and giving that user a chance to put forth a case in defence of the edits (if they wish to).
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:05
  • 2
    As for the "within his rights" question, that's debatable, as I've said, since I'm equally within my rights to remove these links when I see them. If he continues to add them and I begin removing them even when he is the user responsible for editing them in, then we're straight into Edit War territory, and at that point we're both expected to raise mod flags and it is the mods' responsibility to adjudicate the dispute.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:08
  • Of course, "edit wars" usually concern single posts. If things did go down the (extremely silly) path that I describe in my previous comment, the mods would face the need to adjudicate a dispute of an unprecedented kind, spanning thousands of posts and policy for future edits. Ideally, that shouldn't be their job; it should be the community's. Hence, this Meta discussion.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:10
  • 1
    @MarkAmery It doesn't matter that it's one person. Are the edits bad or are they good? What if it were 10 people doing it instead of 1? It may not be the case, but it is sounding a little like you have a problem with Peter and not with what he's doing. And no, you're not within your rights to target a user with any kind of behavior. If it comes to light that you are following a user around reverting all his edits, you'll be suspended.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:22
  • 2
    @TylerH As I've already said, I come across edits of this type by Peter constantly (not quite daily, but more than once a week) and no other user makes this kind of edit. Yes, if they were by any other user, I'd revert them. No, I'm not going to revert them en masse yet because I know that they are in fact all from one user, and I want to give him the chance to answer before I start reverting. I fail to see how that choice indicates that I have a "problem" with Peter; I don't know him and we have no history, but I have no reason to think that he's anything but a well-meaning contributor.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:24
  • 1
    And while there's an argument to be had about whether seeking out edits to revert by looking in Peter's activity history (which I don't intend to do) would be bad (though it's certainly not clear that it would be against the rules - I've done the same thing with another user before and my efforts were highly appreciated by the community and mods; I certainly didn't get suspended), there's no such argument to be made about editing posts as I come across them.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 23, 2016 at 19:33
  • 1
    @MarkAmery The difference there is a user was introducing harmful edits that made improper use of a feature. You were fixing a bunch of objective errors. Here, what the user is doing is not objectively bad, and in fact may even be good (at least in some cases). At best, it's an ambivalent edit, and so the question really remains: "why does it bother you so much"?
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 24, 2016 at 2:20
  • 3
    From what I can tell, I think you're misunderstanding (in the comments) Mark's point. If this were 50,000 users, there would be no question that just editing the pointless links out would be fine. Most of them probably wouldn't notice and the world would move on. Because it's one user, it makes it a very different matter - because it could be seen as targeting them, because it could result in a very nasty dispute, but also because it provides a possible separate recourse - Peter could see this, see the error of their ways and change their behaviour.
    – Jeff
    Commented Dec 24, 2016 at 19:42
  • 1
    @Jeff Again, that's making the assumption that what Peter is doing is wrong. Even though I personally wouldn't approve edits like this, I don't think they're particularly harmful. Before we talk about what Mark should do with regard to Peter's edits, we should talk about whether Mark should do anything in the first place. At this point I'm leaning toward no; half the issue Mark presents seems to be that it's one user doing it, which is not inherently a problem or something worth addressing. It seems like Mark things these edits are stupid and wants to just tell Peter to stop.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 25, 2016 at 5:48
  • 1
    I think the thing is that it being one user isn't what's causing Mark to want to change it - it's what's making him hesitate to do so. Mark's within his rights to go and edit them out, but the fact that it's just one person complicates things as it may result in drama - anticipating that and trying to prevent it makes a lot of sense to me.
    – Jeff
    Commented Dec 25, 2016 at 17:58
11

Links should only be added if they provide genuinely useful background information or a definition for a term that may not be understood by the readership. I cannot imagine what background a link to the Wikipedia page for Windows Server 2003 could possibly provide to a post.

By contrast, the links to "Launchpad" and "PPA" might provide relevant background info, depending on the rest of the post.

In general, I am strongly against such links. If there is no obvious need for such links in the post, then they should not be added.

1
  • I broadly agree; in particular, I agree that not all Wikipedia links are harmful, and that Launchpad and PPAs are both things that a programmer reading about Apt installations might not know about, and that as such links to their Wikipedia pages could be helpful to understanding the post. (I still object to making either Launchpad or PPA a Wikipedia link in the content quoted in the question, since it's misleading; I'd expect the links to respectively point to Launchpad and a PPA.)
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Dec 25, 2016 at 16:02

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .