35

I was made aware of the existence of the tag, today.

This seems like a meta tag that should probably be burninated, so let's have a look at the criteria:

  1. Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

    The tag by itself says nothing about a question other than that it's about something related to w3c. It's saying just as much as (which was burninated, and even blacklisted). It's quite ambiguous.

  2. Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

    The concept of is an organisation. By itself, this isn't necessarily programming-related.
    Questions about w3c's standards should probably have a tag of their own, and they can be on-topic, provided they're not asking for opinions.
    Other than that, the questions about w3c's process or terms, for example, don't really seem on-topic for Stack Overflow.

  3. Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

    Related tags: × 347 × 211 × 149 × 147 × 105 × 97 × 94 × 83 × 62 × 57 × 38 × 35 and some more ...

    This is all over the place, but without those tags, is pretty meaningless.
    1 user committed to a   documentation proposal.

    The top users in this tag have significant activity in the related tags. Which implies that the following is a result of the tag being applied to questions with those tags.

  4. Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

    This tag's meaning is rather vague. By itself, it doesn't mean anything yet.
    When combined with , it's probably about JavaScript standards. When combined with , it's probably about w3c's xml schema.

Altogether, from my perspective, the tag seems too ambiguous to stay on SO.

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  • 36
    But.. but... you'll ruin their cost-free customer care policy... :(
    – roberrrt-s
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 12:59
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    Wouldn't you assume that a [w3c] tag on a programming site refers to the W3C's standards? A lot of the ambiguity here seems manufactured.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 13:00
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    @CodyGray: Assume, maybe. But then that should be clarified in the tag wiki. The tag should then be removed from 933 questions that aren't about standards, leaving only 31 questions.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 13:01
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    Haha. Hold on a minute. You're railing about the existence of a [w3c] tag when we have a [standards] tag?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 13:02
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    @CodyGray: one burnination at a time. ;-)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 13:02
  • 2
    There might be questions specifically relating to the use of W3C's developer tools, but those would probably be better served with either w3c-tools (or something similar), or tags for each individual tool.
    – Zev Spitz
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 13:32
  • 2
    @ZevSpitz: Indeed, those should probably have their own tag.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 13:40
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    I agree with @CodyGray: Burnination is harsher than necessary here. In fact, a topic covering the understanding and interpreting W3C standards as they apply to programming is entirely needed and appropriate. Burniation needn't be the only remedy for suboptimal use.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 14:03
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    "When combined with [javascript], it's probably about JavaScript standards." That's when you realize JavaScript isn't a W3C standard at all. It's an ECMA standard. Nay, an implementation of an ECMA standard. Which makes [w3c] completely out of place in a question that's solely about JavaScript.
    – BoltClock
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 16:45
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    @BoltClock It's not like we didn't have an [ecma] as well…
    – Bergi
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 17:22
  • 4
    How about we don't, then say we didn't?
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 18:01
  • 1
    That is exactly what is going to happen, Tyler!
    – m4n0
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 12:13
  • 2
    @BoltClock I think it would fine to have [w3c] and [javascript] on a question asking about how a standard is implemented in JavaScript, along with with relevant standard tag. Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 16:36
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    @Manoj given that currently twice as many people disagree with the burnination as agree with it, I wouldn't be so sure.
    – user4639281
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 17:35
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    @TinyGiant: Twice as many disagree? Where'd you get that idea? This question is at +39/-22.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 19:06

2 Answers 2

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Disagree. The tag should not be burninated.

Instead, anyone bothered by the current ambiguity should endeavor to resolve it to apply to understanding and interpreting W3C standards as they pertain to programming, a valuable topic on a programming site and quite worthy of its own tag.

I do agree that the current tag description ought to be adjusted to emphasize this less ambiguous purpose. Perhaps the primary tag should really be with as a synonym. But burninating outright would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

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    I don't like babies, any way... On a more serious note: This is something I can absolutely agree with. +1
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 14:05
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    While we are at it, someone will also need to get W3C to agree with the tag's purpose. Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 17:32
  • 3
    "While we are at it, someone should also get W3C to agree with the tag's purpose." SO is not beholden in anyway to W3C, it would just be polite to inform them.
    – code11
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 17:51
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    w3c-standards is a terrible tag, it doesn't say which standard it's asking about. We don't have a *-standards tags, but we have ieee-*, ecma-*, c++*, etc.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 18:26
  • @Braiam: I believe that a supplemental [w3c] or [w3c-standards] tag with improved definition would be better than dozens of new parallel [w3c-*] tags at this point in time.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 18:48
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    @kjhughes the thing is: that we already have the tags for those standards, they even predate the very [w3c] tag. Basically, the system will have -1 net tags.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 18:52
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    I think the issue here, is that if anyone tries to resolve the ambiguity of the [w3c] being about standards, they will find that there are already tags which are about each specific standard. We already have tags for [html] [css] [svg] [xml] etc. Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 18:52
  • @4castle (and @Braiam): If our goal is a minimal, fully orthogonal, engineered tag set, then I agree. If our goal is a rich, expressive, evolved tag set, then I think there's room for a [w3c] or [w3c-standards] tag with a refined definition.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 19:14
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    Our goal is connect the questions with the people that are able to answer them. [w3c] doesn't achieve that goal.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 19:25
  • @Braiam: The value to our back-and-forth is tailing off here. Thanks for your observations.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 20:24
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    If I'm reading your answer right, do you mean applying [w3c-standards] to questions like "How come (does the spec have an explanation for) so-and-so in HTML/CSS?" or "Why does the HTML/CSS spec mandate/forbid so-and-so?" (incidentally my absolute favorite questions to answer on Stack Overflow)?
    – BoltClock
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 6:06
  • @BoltClock: Yes, so, for example: Do use [w3-standards] for a question about W3C standard rationale (and another, where a W3C rec editor kindly weighs in!) or interpretation.
    – kjhughes
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 14:09
  • @BoltClock: And Don't use [w3c-standards] for a question about applying tech covered by the W3C standard (even if a would-be thorough answer may cite the standard).
    – kjhughes
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 14:15
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    I'd be down with that.
    – BoltClock
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 16:27
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First of all, let's see what problem we are going to solve. What's the problem? That organization1 tags are universally bad. Be it Microsoft, Apple, Linux foundation, Twitter, Facebook, etc. these organizations normally create a plethora of products that developers consume (API, specifications, languages, etc.), which normally cause confusion and tend to make more difficult to people that are able to answer the questions to find them. So, that's problem.

The go to solution for these cases is to create new tags for each of the products that the organization offers. W3C being a "standards organization", its products are normally standards. So that leave us with , , , , , , etc.; except for that one problem: what those tags mean is already represented by non-prefixed tags, reducing the new tags to being redundant.

The sensible solution in this case is to replace the for the tag which captures the standard is being asked about.

But, what about the developer that wants to ask about implementing the standard as opposed to "use it"? Sadly, a cursory glance to the tag couldn't reveal any question about that... if you need help interpreting a standard, maybe using which seems to be about those:

For questions about the intricacies of formal or authoritative specifications of programming languages and environments.


1 Normally, we call them companies, but organization is more general and captures the problem accurately.

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    In the web community we tend to call them "vendors". I will spend some time in the coming days retagging w3c questions to more appropriate tags. There are even seven questions tagged solely with w3c!
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 15, 2016 at 22:05
  • 1
    I have never heard of language-lawyer before. Maybe if it has some good synonyms it'll get used, but I wouldn't have known to look for that tag is I had asked a question about standards.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 7:29
  • @TylerH when I said "we", it was with reference to the meta.SE crowd.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 10:54
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    @Cerbrus that's because you don't use c++, those guys need to read the standard for anything!
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 12:29
  • @Braiam Yes, I assumed that much. I was just mentioning what the subject matter experts called them.
    – TylerH
    Commented Dec 16, 2016 at 14:25
  • @Cerbrus And sometimes, not even reading the standard gives you the answer you're looking for, you need to get other people to scrutinise it for whatever it is that you missed! Commented Dec 18, 2016 at 3:32

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