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In Salary Calculator, there is an option as location for New York and San Francisco for United States as a country.

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When this option selected, it almost adds $10.000 to the salary. I checked Salary transparency at Stack Overflow and How We Assess Skill Level links but I couldn't find any information about them. I searched these cities in here also but nothing much.

What makes these cities special for salary? So expensive to live? Taxes?

I'm from Turkey, so I don't know if there is a local reason.

EDIT: How Do Software Developers in New York, San Francisco, London and Bangalore Differ?

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  • 24
    They're both very expensive: expatistan.com/cost-of-living/index/north-america
    – Pekka
    Oct 17, 2016 at 8:13
  • 34
    Joel Spolsky lives in NY and Jeff Atwood in SF. Coincidence?
    – MSalters
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:21
  • 22
    @Liam Switch to UK and it shows London instead.
    – DavidG
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:40
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    ha, well, I didn't really pay attention to that @DavidG....
    – Liam
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:43
  • @MSalters Yes that's a coincidence. Jeff Atwood isn't even with the company anymore. It's likely because the company is based in NY and most developers congregate there or in SF/San Jose, so they are acutely aware of increased living costs in those places.
    – TylerH
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:49
  • 4
    it seems like Washington DC should be included in that list as well
    – JHowIX
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:53
  • 5
    SF is expensive, yes. But don't move to Seattle. It's already bad and getting worse. Seriously. Stay where you are, move to Austin, whatever. Just not Seattle.
    – davidbak
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:56
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    @davidbak Yeah, Seattle has a lot of the same issues as SF. Tons of devs moving in driving up demand for housing and lots of water in the way of building said housing close to the city.
    – reirab
    Oct 17, 2016 at 16:07
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    I think that cost of housing/living is only part of the picture. It also matters how many companies in the area place a high degree of importance on getting the top talent. The top engineers also tend to congregate in areas where more companies have a strong engineering culture (tech hubs). Top engineers are going to demand higher compensation, and companies with a strong engineering culture are willing to pay those higher salaries. Oct 17, 2016 at 19:42
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    Sydney should have a checkbox in "I don't see my country". Oct 18, 2016 at 7:20
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    It is because of cost of living. That said, just because I chose not to live where it is expensive is not a valid reason to offer me $10K less.
    – user177800
    Oct 18, 2016 at 15:47
  • @JarrodRoberson Sure it is. Try to rent a (modest, old, small) condo in this area before making that assertion. I pay $1500/month higher here for a modest condo than if I could live in my (big) rental home in another (great but less expensive) city region. That's $18K before taxes. Oct 18, 2016 at 16:39
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    Despite these two cities being more expensive, the additional 10K appear to be arbitrary. Also, what makes a city expensive so that it "deserves" those additional $ ? What's the threshold? Shouldn't this be more of a gradient than a fixed value?
    – null
    Oct 18, 2016 at 16:50

1 Answer 1

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To expand on what Pekka's comment said...

NY and San Francisco are both high density urban areas, with limited housing (i.e. it's not as easy to build more) that makes it very expensive to live there. I used CNN's cost of living calculator and compared Jacksonville, FL (5th largest US city by area, but nowhere near the population, housing density, or market demand) to San Francisco. Note the massive disparity in housing

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    "Housing 255% more". crooksandliars.com/files/primary_image/15/02/gun_emoji.jpg
    – Pekka
    Oct 17, 2016 at 13:09
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    @Pekka웃 getting out of Jacksonville may be worth it...
    – canon
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:21
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    I was going to suggest Boston would have a similar adjustment but I see the housing costs in Boston are "only" 112% more.
    – pjmorse
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:25
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    @Pekka웃 it's spelled 😵🔫 Oct 17, 2016 at 15:43
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    Saying Jacksonville is the "6th largest U.S. city" is rather misleading. When considering whole metropolitan areas, it's actually 40th. For only the actual city limits, Jacksonville is 12th, but that's kind of a misleading measure, since lots of metro areas are technically divided into several different cities and, especially for the larger cities, lots of people live in the suburbs. But, yeah, SF and NYC are insanely expensive places to live. Even with the +$10k, you're still better off elsewhere in the U.S.
    – reirab
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:44
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    @reirab perhaps he meant land area, where Jacksonville, FL is actually 5th largest?
    – TylerH
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:46
  • @mgarciaisaia thanks, was looking for that!
    – Pekka
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:54
  • @TylerH Yeah, that's possible.
    – reirab
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:54
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    @reirab It's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison(I cleaned the verbiage up some to clarify), but, in this same vein, I often see people ask why jobs in the SE pay so little. Jax is a decent comparison for this purpose. If I wanted pure shock value I would have gone with Albany, GA. 331%, but not exactly a place you'd see on SO Jobs either.
    – Machavity Mod
    Oct 17, 2016 at 15:57
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    @Machavity Oh, I completely agree on the cost difference. When I punch in my city (also in the SE) vs. SF, it shows +350% for housing, which I would say is actually a very low estimate. My 2,000 sqft brick house on an acre is worth maybe $180k. From a quick search, slightly smaller houses in SF appear to go for around $1.2M and those are on lots with less square footage than my house. The cost of housing there is just insane. For a similarly-sized city, though, Houston, Atlanta, or Miami would probably be a better comparison.
    – reirab
    Oct 17, 2016 at 16:02
  • Ha! @reirab do you have any idea how much that would be worth in the centre of London! 2000 sq foot plot in a re-developed apartment in Central London £3,650,000 (thats nearly $4.5M).
    – Liam
    Oct 18, 2016 at 15:29
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    @reirab If you had an acre in SF, even without a house on it, I'm pretty sure you could retire today.
    – mbrig
    Oct 18, 2016 at 16:08
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    @ArtB The rent would actually be 255% aka $2,550 more, so $3,550/month total
    – raphael
    Oct 18, 2016 at 17:28
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    @ArtB Yeah, it's not just 255%, but 255% more, so actually 355% of what you're paying now. Also, it's kind of hard to save 255%, unless they start paying you 155% of what you're paying now. :)
    – reirab
    Oct 18, 2016 at 17:48
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    @Liam Yeah, parts of NYC are like that, too. The concept of spending millions of dollars on an apartment still seems crazy to me, but I guess if you work close to there and are making millions of dollars, then it could be worthwhile. Or if you're just extremely wealthy and want to live there because you can. Anyway, yay for free markets where we can all choose what works best for us individually.
    – reirab
    Oct 18, 2016 at 17:56

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