56

It's been a question on the Joel Test for over 15 years, and Joel believes in it so strongly that a recent GeekWire article began:

If you want to attract and keep developers, don’t emphasize ping-pong tables, lounges, fire pits and chocolate fountains. Give them private offices or let them work from home, because uninterrupted time to concentrate is the most important and scarcest commodity.

That’s the view of Joel Spolsky, CEO of Stack Overflow, a popular Q&A site for programmers, who spoke this morning at the GeekWire Summit in Seattle.

And yet, when I search Stack Overflow Jobs in a major tech city, "ping pong" turns up more hits than "private office" (zero). There was a time when companies posted their Joel Test scores, and listed the parts they failed, but searching for "joel test" also returns 0 hits today.

I don't care about ping pong. I don't even care if I'm writing Python or Ruby, or C++, or 6502 assembly language. Getting a quiet place to work is the #1 top priority for me as a developer, and it sounds like the founder of Stack Overflow agrees with me, as does almost every commenter on the GeekWire article.

Why is it 2016 but we still can't filter on the single most important job criterion? I feel like Stack Overflow Jobs is like a dating site that only asks "Do you prefer blondes or brunettes?" That is the wrong question! I may as well just pick randomly. Reading 100 variants of "self-starter, works well with others, and has experience with real production systems" is not at all helpful in letting me discriminate between these companies.

One possible explanation is that there are no jobs in the world which offer private offices for programmers, which seems depressing, but also unlikely. But regardless, if the people behind SO/J agree that this is important, this is the perfect opportunity to use a jobs site to drive an important social change. You could collect actual data on "offer private offices" and "how long a job opening stays active", and tell companies what their open floorplan is costing.

16
  • 1
    I might agree with your explanation; it's such a niche thing that building a search parameter for it wouldn't be a wise use of development time, although if it's listed as one of the perks, it'd be nice to make that more accessible to some kind of keyword search.
    – Makoto
    Oct 10, 2016 at 22:28
  • 8
    Heh, I was looking for something like this earlier today after reading the same article. Job postings can (and often do) contain Joel Test breakouts; seems like it'd be possible to add this.
    – Shog9
    Oct 10, 2016 at 22:30
  • 8
    Makoto: By what evidence do you claim it's a "niche"? The article linked here already has two 300+-point posts at HN this week (and it's only Monday afternoon!). I see only 2 posts that got more than that this week.
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 10, 2016 at 23:01
  • Shog9: That would be great, especially if we could search on it, but "often" is pretty generous. Of 2270 jobs listed right now, only 8 mention "joel test", and the only one within 2000 miles of me is a junior government position that says "You can even help us get our Joel test score up to 12!"
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 10, 2016 at 23:04
  • 9
    Thanks for pointing this out. There are currently vague, early plans to update Company Benefits data, which would allow people to filter searches based on criteria like this. Not sure when this project will move forward or if it will specifically include "private offices." Will update this post when we know more.
    – Donna
    Oct 10, 2016 at 23:55
  • 1
    They say that offices with doors or even tall cubical walls are an anti-"Agile" anti-pattern because open work spaces promote collaboration. Having said that, I feel exactly the same way. My next job will be 100% remote or at least an office with a door. Just FYI - Virtual Vocations has a nice list of remote jobs and in small companies it's easy to negotiate for an office. Also, Dilbert.com used to see an inflatable office door for your cubical.
    – Hack-R
    Oct 11, 2016 at 5:10
  • 1
    I've had the best experience at a place with separated environments. There were open desks (4 at a desk, no wall) where talking was encouraged, half-open desks (4 at a desk, wall in front of you) and acoustic desks (no talking allowed, walls in front and besides you). Every day you could choose where to sit.
    – user247702
    Oct 11, 2016 at 11:30
  • 2
    I think your unlikely scenario, that no jobs offer private offices, is more likely than you think. Companies that employ lots of developers generally can't afford it, and it would be a huge waste of space in their eyes. Unless you're at a very senior level I don't think private offices are a reasonable ask today.
    – user229044 Mod
    Oct 11, 2016 at 13:05
  • 2
    meagar: I already mentioned that I found one junior position that did. I know Fog Creek does, and so does (most of) Microsoft, according to my friends who work there -- though they don't say so on their SO job postings. I admit it's an uncommon benefit, which is why I want to be able to search for it.
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 11, 2016 at 16:42
  • As for whether it's "unreasonable", well, I'm seriously considering a 40% pay cut (and a terrible commute) to take that junior position, just for this one benefit. I don't think companies have any idea how much money they could save, if they allowed themselves to compete on this axis. Not every software company has to compete for consumers in the market of freemium smartphone games, and not every software company has to compete for developers on the basis of ping pong tables and salary.
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 11, 2016 at 16:45
  • @J.Cocoe It depends on the budget of the company, the number of developers they employ and where the physical office is located. If you're looking at working around major tech hubs, it's just not financially feasible for the vast majority of companies. Physical office space is extremely expensive. I've never worked at a place where anybody below a Director has had a private office. Depending on the company's size, sometimes it's only VPs and C-level execs that get private offices.
    – user229044 Mod
    Oct 11, 2016 at 19:13
  • 1
    meagar: I understand that this is your experience. However, I don't need to work at "the vast majority of companies". I just need to find one.
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 11, 2016 at 19:19
  • 1
    meager: Also, I disagree that money has anything to do with it. More than one manager I've spoken to claimed it was about cost, but then changed their story when I offered to pay for it out of my own salary. In any event, I'm not here to discuss the merits of such a system, but to say that for me (and apparently a lot of others) this is an extremely important criterion, and we want to be able to search for such jobs.
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 11, 2016 at 19:20
  • @J.Cocoe It's about space, which is indirectly about money. And I can't imagine any company is going to let you perform major renovations to their space just because you're willing to pay for it. It's their office, not yours, and long after you've left they're going to be stuck with the random office you paid to have built. Never mind how it looks to your coworkers who don't get a private office, and maybe can't afford to have one built for them. Letting one person do whatever they want to the office because they can afford it sets a terrible standard.
    – user229044 Mod
    Oct 11, 2016 at 19:27
  • 1
    meager: You're getting off-topic here. This is about a search criterion on a jobs site, not a debate over office space management.
    – J. Cocoe
    Oct 11, 2016 at 19:32

0

You must log in to answer this question.

Browse other questions tagged .