-4

I've been playing around on Stack Overflow for over a month, and I'm still unsure whether the current system of upvoting and downvoting is all right or it's definitely broken.

I mean, taking a look to the highest voted questions section I realize there are tons and tons of trivial questions which has already given so much reputation to their questioners, I don't get it.

So, what information is it giving me the reputation of one Stack Overflow user? For instance, let's say I've been posting on Stack Overflow for few years and making a lot of "popular" trivial questions, probably the reputation has been boosted up, that's great... But, what's the meaning of it? Does that mean I know how to ask popular trivial questions which makes me popular?

This thought is coming from the fact I don't understand because one interesting question like this one, a question which could add a lot of value to programmers in general has received negative votes and no answers at all. Yeah, of course you could improve the structure a little bit, adding more context and maybe being more clear and concise (I'm non native English speaker). But even so, I don't get it... is it Stack Overflow is only a good place to ask only popular questions?

Also, about this question's title, why are all upvotes weighted equally? Shouldn't a vote from one expert at certain question weight much more than somebody who doesn't know anything about it?

For instance, if I'm asking something related to one advanced programming book, it's common sense the votes & answers should weight much more if they come from one of the book's author or people who has read&master the book. Another example, if I'm asking something about assembler, votes should weight more from guys who have been coding for years on assembly and not a younger who's been coding for a couple of years in JavaScript and PHP.

What are your thought about the current Stack Overflow system? Am I completely wrong? Do you think it's good as it is?

15
  • 14
    "Shouldn't a vote from one expert at certain question weight much more than somebody who doesn't know anything about it" - and how does one determine an "expert" from "somebody who doesn't know anything about it"?
    – Oded
    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:53
  • 4
    Weighting votes always sounds like a good idea but practically, it's a nightmare to implement. You'd add orders of magnitude of complexity to the system, and if (as you note) we don't accept reputation as a perfect indicator of expertise, how do we determine whose vote should weigh how much?
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:54
  • "So, what info is it giving me the reputation of one SO user?" How long they've been active (roughly) and if they are posting answers/questions the community thinks are helpful and well put together (roughly). Expertise is certainly correlated in that, but its not an indicator directly. For instance, I have over 7k rep, but by developer standards, im still a beginner.
    – Magisch
    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:55
  • 1
    Nothing wrong with the current SO system. It's wonderful
    – Alon Eitan
    Aug 16, 2016 at 11:57
  • 4
    That seems like a bit of a stretch, Alon. I prefer a Churchillian view
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:02
  • Yes, but almost every other day I see a cry-baby complaining and trying to fix the "problem" of questions that were once valid, and now worth thousands of reputation to their OP. Those answers that pops in the first page results in Google when you're searching for a solution in your code, and they helped a lot of users along the years. So i'd give them a +1000 reputation as an extra bonus for that.
    – Alon Eitan
    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:10
  • Some of us know a lot about a tag but never actually answer questions there. Sometimes you have to trust us
    – Drew
    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:17
  • @Pekka웃 That's interesting, worth to take a look also to sophocracy and technocracy . IMHO I think in order to get a better StackOverflow you should rely on better algorithms instead of equality of expertise. If I'm gonna build a good bridge, opinions from people who's not familiar with Civil Engineering shouldn't weight too much... Of course, I'm not saying the opinions shouldn't be consider at all... Just saying they shouldn't weight as much as a Civil Engineer.
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 13:16
  • @Oded Sorry, I didn't know that, removed already the comment. In any case, coming back to the main subject I'm not saying establishing users expertise is trivial. Definitely with new users you don't have enough information so they will need to get traction somehow. But what about users who's contributed to certain tags and received tons of accepted answers, that should be a valid condition. Of course, considering the tagging set is relevant, clean and not redundant.
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 13:18
  • I think in order to get a better StackOverflow you should rely on better algorithms instead of equality of expertise yeah, you'll find many round here who agree. So far though, all such suggestions have been struck down either from a sense of democracy or because it would be so complex to implement.
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 13:48
  • @Pekka웃 Ok, fair enough, I thought this discussion would open new doors in order to improve the current system but it doesn't seem likely. Anyway, before accepting your answer, why do you think I've got so many downvotes with my question? I'm just curious... I'm newbie on StackOverflow and I'd like to understand the "right" way to make better future questions.
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 13:58
  • 1
    I guess the votes are because people feel either that a) the problem you're describing isn't that bad and/or b) votes shouldn't be weighted. Also there is previous discussion on both topics. Those should inform your argument. I thought this discussion would open new doors in order to improve the current system but it doesn't seem likely it's only one new door of many I'm afraid :) even if the community likes a suggestion and upvotes it, that is no indicator of whether it will actually ever be implemented. We have no say in the matter. (continued...)
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:02
  • 1
    @Pekka웃 Tyvm, your comments are useful indeed, thanks for the feedback, accepting your answer now.
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:05
  • I'd like to understand the "right" way to make better future questions the biggest thing is to do lots of prior research: most obvious (and less obvious) questions, ideas, and suggestions have already been posed in some way, here or (in many cases) over on meta.stackexchange.com. Find them, check out the arguments made, and let them inform your argument. I know this is not easy to do on Meta but it's important - like you would look for what's in the field before writing a serious university paper.
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:06
  • When you are confident you have done your homework, go ahead - and then don't mind downvotes too much, as they can mean mere disagreement even on perfectly posed feature suggestions. Everyone gets downvoted on Meta every once in a while. (Just don't hold your breath on anything you suggest getting actually implemented even if you get good community feedback.)
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:07

1 Answer 1

9

I mean, taking a look to the highest voted questions section I realize there are tons and tons of trivial questions which has already given so much reputation to their questioners, I don't get it.

Those are mostly old questions; most of them wouldn't survive five minutes under the current rules. It is correct that they have given some users some amount of reputation that we today might find "unearned" but it's not as massive as it seems: the 200-point daily rep cap has limited the reputation gained from those questions a lot. Kevin Montrose's answer here is worth reading, too.

So — yes, it's unfair that there are older trivial questions that netted tons of upvotes; but all in all, it's not that big of a problem that is influencing the reputation ranks unfairly.

Why are all upvotes weighted equally?

One reason is a notion of democratic equality. (That one is a bit misguided, in my opinion.) The other reason is more convincing: anything else would be a nightmare.

When the value of upvotes changes, they become almost impossible for a human to track. You'd have to implement massive UI changes to account for this. Also, as you note, reputation is not necessarily always an indicator of expertise, so what factor would you use to calculate the weight of votes?

There's a lot of previous discussion about weighted votes, e.g.

Note that higher-reputation users do get more "rights" according to their rep, e.g. in the number of close votes they can cast daily.

10
  • Also maybe worth to say is that the system is definitely not perfect, but making changes to it would need many thoughts and is hard without making it very complex or making it worse.
    – Rizier123
    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:06
  • 1
    Its also worth noting that many of these users you would consider getting "unearned" reputation from "trivial" questions have been members here so long, they've often contributed thousands of excellent answers, many much more complex than these. Its additionally worth noting that the most reputation someone earned from a single answer, ever, was around 2200 points (source) while many of these users have 100.000+ rep easily.
    – Magisch
    Aug 16, 2016 at 12:07
  • Close votes do not rise with rep. Flags and delete votes on the other hand do. Aug 16, 2016 at 12:13
  • @Pekka What factor would you use to calculate the weight of votes? That's easy, google's PR algorithm could give some good clues. Although of course it's even difficult for google get rid of tons of Spams. Nobody said this problem would be trivial.
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 13:26
  • @BPL That's easy, google's PR algorithm could give some good clues. But Google's PR algorithm has a metric to work with - inbound links. What's our metric?
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 13:47
  • @Pekka웃 If it was me, the metric wouldn't be definitely question popularity. To me, one guy who has solved a really difficult problem should be rewarded much more than one who's given an explanation to something "trivial". One example, I would give more reputation to wiles for his proof on Fermat's than one guy who's proved pythagorean theorem :D
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:04
  • @BPL ok, but how do you measure difficulty? As you've found, upvotes are useless for that.
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:09
  • @Pekka웃 That's a massive difficult task indeed, even for google. That's why there are so many trash ranking first in the SERP for many popular keywords. I wouldn't trust the questioners's ability to judge difficult of their questions. So, what about this, let's assume all questions have same rank of difficulty at the beginning, why not finding a formula calculating "difficulty" depending on the number of answers and elapsed days without finding an accepted answer? Something like that, I'd also add some tabs to search questions by "difficulty"
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:20
  • @Pekka웃 Depending how "difficult" a question becomes, your provided answers could get bounties weighted by difficulty. Something like that
    – BPL
    Aug 16, 2016 at 14:21
  • @BPL hmm. I'm not saying that's completely without merit - but there's too many uncertainties here for it to be an objective measure. An objectively difficult question could get an answer right away because the right expert happens to be loading the front page the moment it is asked; or it could linger for a month because no expert happens to come by, etc. It's a hard problem, yeah.
    – Pekka
    Aug 16, 2016 at 16:25

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .