35

Ok, I'm the guy in the "too much" hat for today... A question that I found to be - despite its correct looks - without effort made me ask for details.

I admit it was not in a nice tone, that's clear.

What happened next surprised me, and I should have asked for advice here on Meta before proceeding. OP started getting personal, and deleting the comments right after a few seconds, even directly referring to it as "Ctrl-w". Luckily, after the second one, I took a screenshot:

Screenshot with insult

After some time passed

Note: On the second screenshot one of my - harsh - comments is missing: OP removed his own - harsh - comment to which I replied (apparently this was the 2nd one he removed, there was one before he replied to Arnaud), and I removed it, in hope that the situation has come to an end. It was only after this I realised what is going on, and hence didn't take a screenshot before

Current screenshot

My case is clear: I should have been nicer (thanks @PetterFriberg for the nudge to cool down).

How to act if someone behaves this way? Thanks for all the suggestions.

+1 question: as my comments are just litter on the question, should I remove them?

16
  • 50
    Side-note: OP didn't delete any of their comments. They were flagged as rude (at least by me) and automatically deleted.
    – Tunaki
    Aug 12, 2016 at 13:22
  • 1
    @Tunaki Ah that makes it a lot clearer! Thanks for clarifying!
    – ppeterka
    Aug 12, 2016 at 13:23
  • 54
    Flag and move on. Don't waste energy, it's simply not worth it.
    – user247702
    Aug 12, 2016 at 13:23
  • 27
    As trite as this advice is, don't feed the trolls.
    – ryanyuyu
    Aug 12, 2016 at 13:24
  • 4
    I actually see this fairly a lot, the standard flame post is that higher rep user pass what is interpreted as a "non-friendly" comment, in many cases op keeps his cool in other they get very offensive. The best solution is always to stay constructive and helpful in comments. The thing you can do is read this Etiquette for posting civil and informative comments and if you meet flame OP, just flag and move on... often someone else is watching so it will get nuked fairly quickly. Aug 12, 2016 at 13:31
  • 6
    The comments are cleared up. In future it's best to not engage as some people just don't know when to let go (as you see from what happened in this comment thread) and you end up with a to-fro'ing of non-constructive comments which sometimes descend to name calling/bickering - just flag the non-constructive/inappropriate comments and they'll get cleared up. Aug 12, 2016 at 13:32
  • 54
    Sounds to me you are ready to take a break from [regex]. It is a tag where nobody is ever expected to do any research, mostly because Google is almost never helpful and it has plenty of contributing puzzle-minded users that don't care. So such a comment will always be considered unconstructive. Just add [regex] to your ignored tags and you won't have to look at them anymore. You can always remove it again when you're ready for the next dose :) Aug 12, 2016 at 13:32
  • 8
    @HansPassant Bad thing is I'm sort of in a love-hate relationship with regex, and generally like to deal with questions with regards to the trickier ones... Even though we know that when we solve a problem with regex, we have 2 problems already...
    – ppeterka
    Aug 12, 2016 at 13:33
  • 11
    ctrl-w closes the current tab. It doesn't delete a comment.
    – user1228
    Aug 12, 2016 at 14:39
  • 6
    Sometimes OPs might be new to the site and the culture, assuming 'what they should have done' and responding with this assumption can escalate things unnecessarily. When I was new, I happened to ask a question for Windows scripting, without any intention of getting anyone to write a script for me, I briefly mentioned what I did and what I wanted to accomplish, right off the bat first comment I received was that 'SE is not scripting service' because I didn't share my silly attempts as snippets. How 'should' OPs feel against such confrontations?
    – user3905644
    Aug 13, 2016 at 10:37
  • 2
    @ppeterka Seems like you "Concoct Elaborate Fantasy Scenarios where [regex] lets you save the day" xkcd.com/208
    – Aron
    Aug 15, 2016 at 9:54
  • 1
    @Sergio Stop thinking in advance that people is bad/idiot I did not think that. And the comment stream does not reflect that either. However I feel the other participant in the conversation did. My part lacks a few "please", "I'd suggest", "please next time" phrases, but other than that there was no attack there, just the usual parts trying to highlight how an answerable SO question would look like. I think the best way would be to configure AHK to have default (polite, heart-chakra friendly, PC, etc...) comments for this quite common situation to not have to write it down each time.
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 11:54
  • 1
    @Aron I always try, but could even not concoct one fantasy scenario so far that didn't end in a larger disaster...
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 12:09
  • 5
    "we are not here to write your code" don't go there. Just downvote. That's where you took it too far, the rest of your comments seemed fine to me up until that point.
    – Kevin B
    Aug 15, 2016 at 15:26
  • 1
    @KevinB Yep, important lesson learnt there...
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 18:49

5 Answers 5

79

I think the tone of your responses is a secondary problem, and that the main problem is that the type of exchange you were participating in is outside the intended use of comments.

Comments should be used by potential answerers to request additional information that could improve the question, and by the OP to respond with that information, unless they can be guided to edit it into their question instead. If you ask for more information and the OP is recalcitrant, you're done. If they respond with belligerent comments, they're misusing the comment system and their comments should be flagged for deletion. Responding to them at that point, even if you're extremely polite, will never do anything but make the situation worse. Your comments will be just as off-topic as theirs are, even if you're extremely polite, as it's already become obvious you're never going to be able to get them to help improve their question.

I get that it's tempting to respond when someone says some stupid thing to you, but I think the best way to deal with that temptation is to train yourself to be more satisfied by calmly pushing a button and watching the stupid thing they said get deleted. Imagine how cool it would be if that worked in person.

8
  • 7
    The kind of answer where you get a pang of guilt while reading it because you just know you did it wrong yourself several times.
    – Gimby
    Aug 12, 2016 at 15:44
  • 13
    The problem is, having the stupid thing deleted is not the satisfaction that people crave. They're motivated by the fact that someone on the Internet is wrong, and they will continue to be wrong unless they are set straight. Deleting the wrong comment doesn't change that. Aug 13, 2016 at 10:53
  • 7
    Flagging and deleting communicates nothing though. If you never tell people what they're doing wrong, how can they be expected to correct their behavior? Sounds like we're resigning ourselves to a best-case result of scaring them off.
    – hobbs
    Aug 13, 2016 at 18:02
  • 11
    No. The intended use of comments is to comment on a post. I frequently comment even without the desire to answer a question only to point out insecure code which would not warrant an answer of its own.
    – Artjom B.
    Aug 14, 2016 at 11:15
  • 4
    My advice would be, in large friendly letters, "DON'T PANIC"! Aug 14, 2016 at 12:14
  • @CodyGray I think the problem is often that someone who gets defensive when presented with constructive criticism is unlikely to admit that they have been set straight, even if they have, so the argument continues not because both parties think they are right, but because one does not want to admit that they were wrong. Aug 14, 2016 at 14:08
  • 2
    @hobbs I don't think it's a bad idea to tell them. I just think it's a bad idea to continue telling them when they want to argue with you about it. Hopefully after a couple of attempts, they'll see that when they bite the hand, it stops feeding them. And if they can't/won't realize that, I don't think scaring them off is a bad thing. Aug 14, 2016 at 14:08
  • 3
    @ArtjomB That's a great point. I overlooked that (and probably other valid reasons to comment) because I was too focused on this specific scenario. But I think the main idea is still the same: comment on the post, not on the author, or on other unrelated comments. Aug 14, 2016 at 14:09
20

it was me.

I'm sorry, now reviewing the question, I see that the english in the question is lame. I was composing it about 5 hours, and at the end, have overshortened it, and thus, it became unclear :-( I just wanted any info on those dmn characters, and the link on regex101 was just for covenience as alternative to inline snippet.

But I'm not here for free rides, and don't need anyone to write code for me. I didn't need it 20 yrs ago when've written my first one, it's just not interesting. Your profile looks like you're freebie-lovers-hunter, so I was offended. I did unprofessional, and it's a shame, especially when the question turned out really bad (-10 at the moment of writing). Sorry, @ppeterka and everyone involved!

I promise to be more open to critics the next time, and put additional effort to fill gaps in my english.

Just noticed many downvotes on all my questions. Could this happen because of the conflict? I want to account only trusted downvotes, to know for sure that I understand good question criterias correctly.

Reading @ppeterka explanation, and other people's answers and comments, it's obvious, that he wanted and could help me, it wasn't an offense at all. But could be taken as offense. I also could take it professional and just compose more and more details. He did more than just downvote, he have tried to help even with this. I've chosen to argue, because of my negative thinking :-(. That's double shame. I've just had to stay professional.

Anyway, I'll improve those question, because it's a shame either, how unclear it is.

5
  • 5
    The downvotes on your question are (very likely) the result of the "Meta Effect", or the effect of linking a question on Meta and sending increased traffic to it. Since it wasn't the greatest of questions, it got more eyes on it, people evaluated it, and people downvoted it. Some of them may have voted because of the conflict, but at the same time the OP of this question was a bit overboard themselves. I think it's more likely that it was a result of the quality of your question and your question getting greatly increased traffic from this post.
    – Kendra
    Aug 15, 2016 at 13:23
  • 7
    As a side note, you don't need the "Added:" parts you keep adding- Just add the text in a way that your answer feels like it flows naturally. If someone wants to see what you added, Stack Overflow keeps the revision history and it can be accessed with the "edited x ago" link at the bottom of any edited post. :)
    – Kendra
    Aug 15, 2016 at 14:51
  • 6
    Thanks for showing up and telling your side of the story too! That is something I look up to! And sorry for getting hot-headed at you, probably I should have taken another look at the question, which was too well formatted for a bad one - and get a bit of polish on my words not to be offensive... Who knows, we might drink a beer together somewhere sometime... (Minor sidenote: I didn't do any downvotes - not even on the question in question, and my intent with this question was not in any of that direction but to learn how I should have done my part. Sorry for the Meta effect.)
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 18:56
  • 1
    Something I just noticed: If someone is doing a lot of reviews in sequence, their profile gets crowded with the automatically generated comments, mixed with comments requesting improvement, and very few "useful", proactive, or answer-like comments - that might make one seem a huge troll...
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 19:04
  • 5
    Thank you in turn for kind understanding :-) I have also thought about beer, hope at once I'll start getting out to conferences / meetings and who knows :-) About the Meta effect, in my case it's helpful, this conversations, and traffic is a great experience regarding language barrier. Of course, I understand, that it's not good, to do this way intentionally for studying, considering involved community efforts and pain. On StackExchange, the rule I should repeat to myself some extra times, is to always stay professional in conversations. Thank you, @ppeterka and the community! Aug 16, 2016 at 10:03
11

My own thoughts - not necessarily directed towards your heated exchange, but how I feel about interactions between IT professionals in general.

People advocating their advice or point of view generally win a lot more friends when they drop the holier-than-thou approach. It's simple human nature. In general people dig their heels in when they are being derided someone who is sanctimonious and patronising. This is true in any workplace - Jim Coplien with whom I did my Scrum / Agile training was unequivocal about this ("remember - you SACK the a****** super-developer".).

After a while these self-absorbed superstars eventually realise that they are just Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons. Seriously, who in the "normal" world wants to be associated with such people?

12
  • 1
    I'm curious why this was downvoted. I actually support the sack-the-primadonna approach.
    – ppeterka
    Aug 14, 2016 at 12:17
  • 4
    @ppeterka Maybe an answer that actually dealt with the problem at hand here rather than go on a tangent would fare better.
    – Louis
    Aug 14, 2016 at 13:04
  • 2
    @Louis I think in a way it does deal with it - to me the message was "turn away, not worth the trouble, the problem will solve itself with time".
    – ppeterka
    Aug 14, 2016 at 13:07
  • 4
    Not really bothered about the downvotes, why should you if you are over 12 years old? Upvotes/downvotes don't help good discussion, so best ignore them - people often downvote stuff if it contains a truth they don't like. SO is a GREAT forum apart from this kiddie feature.
    – AndyUK
    Aug 14, 2016 at 18:33
  • 4
    @AndyUK I don't care about the rep (especially on Meta) - I was interested to hear the cause of the downvote, to know the downvoter's opinion expanded to a bit longer form than the vote.
    – ppeterka
    Aug 14, 2016 at 19:01
  • 3
    IMO this is tangential at best and framed with such pointless over-the-top language that detracts from something I might otherwise totally agree with. In a thread about keeping cool and not using tone that might (however accidentally) incite arguments, this seems a bit opposite to that, right? Aug 15, 2016 at 8:59
  • 2
    @underscore_d Hmm, I didn't even think of that. Certainly, on a second look, the wording is strong... To me it didn't even light the "yellow warning" - but that is different for each of us... Apparently inciting rage over staying cool would be a nice Monty Pythonesque sketch...
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 11:58
  • 5
    You do not "sack the asshole super-developer" and I certainly never said that. If you hire someone, then barring legal infringements or psychosis the employer bears the burden of enabling that individual. The ScrumMaster may remove such an individual from the team. It is the ScrumMaster's job to find a place (usually in-house) where they can suitably contribute. See, e.g., "Solo Virtuoso" which Neil Harrison and I wrote somewhat over 20 years ago. This is what we regularly teach in our seminars. sites.google.com/a/gertrudandcope.com/info/Publications/…
    – Cope
    Aug 15, 2016 at 12:09
  • 1
    Agreed, Andy. Getting rid of the asshole superstar is the right decision as a team leader or manager in any field, assuming the rest of the team is even remotely competent, even if their skills are lackluster in comparison. That being said, not sure this addresses the OP...
    – TylerH
    Aug 15, 2016 at 14:40
  • 1
    My point was that lofty attitudes do nobody any favours. I used to have such a mindset, by the grace of god I had the good sense not to persist. Having a resident 'rock star' is a sign of a dysfunctional environment - a person cherry picking tasks unencumbered with the usual 'problems' and knowledge not getting spread.
    – AndyUK
    Aug 15, 2016 at 15:50
  • 1
    @AndyUK "My point was that lofty attitudes do nobody any favours" - see, now that is a way of putting it I can easily get behind while your answer just screams all kinds of nope. If only people would pick this method of communication primarily rather than after the fact in comments, the Stack would be a better place.
    – Gimby
    Aug 17, 2016 at 8:37
  • 1
    Point taken. You might have noticed I have since removed/moderated one or two of my original choice words...
    – AndyUK
    Aug 17, 2016 at 10:00
10

I have to say, I think your tone was largely the problem here. Although everything you said was completely valid, this could have been avoided if you had worded it differently.

People on this site seem to be so negative lately and I don't know why. From what I've seen, it seems that the more reputation a user has, the less tolerant they are to beginners. I think people forget just how little knowledge you have when you are starting out. For example, when I was first learning how to code, I would spend hours trying to figure out even the most trivial of problems. I'm talking about the very topics that have had questions asked countless times before. At that stage though, I often didn't know how to take an existing question that solves my problem and tailor it to my questions. I had so many questions downvoted and closed when I was starting out because high rep users always assume "he obviously didn't do enough research", when in fact I had done a large amount of research, I just didn't yet understand how to apply what I was reading. Anyway, I'm clearly heading off-topic here...

Basically I think although you were right to ask for more details, the part where you said "you have to try something, we don't just write code for people" was completely unnecessary and exactly the passive aggressiveness we should aim to get rid of on this site. It added nothing of value to the comment at all and you just assume the OP hasn't really given anything a go before asking the question.

8
  • Not sure I agree. There is nothing wrong with the OP's comments, seeing as they just point out a rule that is implicit in various off-topic flagging reasons: you have to show that you've done something, i.e. SO is not a code-writing service. More broadly, if so many folk online choose to read dispassionate statements or questions as offensive because they're not being hand-held enough, that's their problem. This is a place to post technical info, not go out of our way to be social. OP's comments are especially not offensive when put relative to the actually bad behaviour of the original asker. Aug 15, 2016 at 12:04
  • 1
    Please note: asker was not a beginner... Not a seasoned SO user, but a programming professional (visible on his profile) with more than 2.5 years of SO membership.
    – ppeterka
    Aug 15, 2016 at 12:04
  • @underscore_d Like I said, I agree, everything he said was valid, but there are a lot of other ways he could have said it. For example, simply asking 'What have you tried?' instead of jumping to the conclusion 'you've tried nothing'. Aug 15, 2016 at 13:04
  • 2
    @underscore_d Its not a case of making them feel 'hand-held' or trying not to offend anyone, it's just don't be an a-hole... This goes for everyday interaction in the real world too, not just online. If you have a way of saying something that is constructive and helpful, but you choose to say it in a condescending way, you need to have a little self evaluation in my opinion. Lose the 'I say what I want, if you dont like it, thats your problem' mentality. Long story short, if you can be helpful, be helpful. It's not hand-holding, it just makes this place more positive and pleasant for everyone Aug 15, 2016 at 13:09
  • 1
    "People on this site seem to be so negative lately and I don't know why. - plenty of interesting reading material on meta. Ex: Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late?
    – Gimby
    Aug 15, 2016 at 13:35
  • @Gimby Wow, that's a good question. I'd love to see how many upvotes it would have if they didn't close it! Aug 15, 2016 at 16:03
  • 3
    From what I've seen, it seems that the more reputation a user has, the less tolerant they are to beginners. Not in my experience. What I see is perfectly objective comments by high-rep users being unduly taken as criticism by junior users. I can post a comment like "Why don't you try stepping through your program with a debugger", and there is no shortage of users that will take offense and lash out with some negative c comment.
    – user663031
    Aug 16, 2016 at 5:02
  • 2
    @torazaburo that'd be my experience too; people see anything that is not super-duper positive as a negative. So a perfectly fine neutral comment is interpreted as something negative. Makes it hard to drive questions to a positive conclusion.
    – Gimby
    Aug 16, 2016 at 7:29
4

The comments were not deleted by OP most likely, but deleted by rude flags, instead. Under certain circumstances based on comment content, even 1 rude flag can suffice to delete a comment.

As to your responses, you were getting a little heated there. While most of your comments are unobjectionable, it is better to not engage with OP's who get rude or take things personal. Simply flag the offending comments appropiately, and remain focused on the topic. If they make a habit of it, a mod will deal with them sooner rather than later.

2
  • 8
    Deleting comments in that way can be problematic, in that they only muddle the waters further. In one comment thread, the OP suddenly started to accuse me of talking bullshit and being an asshole and an idiot. At least at the time it looked like he did; only later did I realise that the OP may not have been talking to me, that there may have been other comments in between which had been deleted since!
    – Mr Lister
    Aug 13, 2016 at 11:04
  • 2
    @MrLister I do not think we can leave all offensive comments on site so that everybody can have good context. Just nuke all this stuff and everything surrounding it (it brings nothing constructive to this site), if lots of comment just flag the post and mods can pass by and clean up our mess. (also remember mods can see deleted comments if this is nessary) Aug 16, 2016 at 14:45

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