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Consider this question on Stack Overflow: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/735791/hadoop-examples

  1. This question is closed rightly, but I think such broad questions must be deleted.

This question is very broad and also doesn't appear in the first 20 Google search results for "Hadoop examples" (as Braiam rightly pointed out), it's just noise on Stack Overflow.

The above question is a clear example of a recommendation question and doesn't deserve to be on Stack Overflow.

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  • You think the ability to delete questions should come before the ability to close them?
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:06
  • @TZHX Not before. But with it.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:10
  • 2
    Ok then. So why must that question be deleted? What harm has its existence over the last 7 years caused?
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:14
  • 7
    Given the fact that even seasoned close voters sometimes screw-up, I'm afraid that giving delete vote privilege at 3K will cause the removal of content with value. I don't mind our history.
    – rene
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:14
  • 1
    @rene It does happen but I think most folk with 3K+ reps could contibute to removing all this noise.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:18
  • 1
    The ability to delete at 2k or 3k would necessitate the ability to undelete, and so to see deleted content. That's been things at the 10k level for a long time; so there needs to be a good reason to change it.
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:24
  • @TZHX I am requesting for ability to cast delete vote. And maybe allow those users to view their deleted questions and not all deleted questions(hence no other privileges need to be given to users below 10000reps).
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:29
  • 5
    No, they do, for balance. You can't increase tenfold the number of people who can delete things without also increasing the number who can undelete them; or we'd end up with no way that things could scalably be undeleted by the community when the occasional mistake happens.
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:31
  • 1
    @TZHX How many un-deletes do you think happen? I think very few questions get undeleted.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:37
  • I don't have access to the moderator tools on SO to estimate. But it's more about the ability so that bad deletions can be undone, than the number of cases where it happens.
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:39
  • 2
    @TZHX Have a look at close to open votes pending: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/504270/…
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 11:04
  • @rene I know that. I said I don't have access to the moderator tools, and they're the moderator tools. stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/moderator-tools
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 11:10
  • 1
    I agree with @AniMenon that questions with "give me example" and all should be removed. But I don't know abt delete votes. Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 20:15
  • "You can't increase tenfold the number of people who can delete things without also increasing the number who can undelete them" i wish that argument worked for the downvote vs upvote privilege.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Aug 24, 2016 at 18:12

3 Answers 3

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That question, among many, many more, wasn't deleted (since Jun, 27 it is) because it has both tons of upvotes and over 80,000 views. Obviously visitors find that question via Google, so it has value. The question is closed with the fresh close reason about asking for off-site resource so it can no longer attract crap.

Given the limited close votes we have and the small number of users that really use their votes we have to choose what to moderate. Given the large number of fresh questions that don't belong here I focus on those, with my close votes and delete votes.

When there are no more fresh/new posts to handle it is time to see if we need to rewrite history.

I don't think we need to make it easier to delete posts from Stack Overflow. What we need is to have everyone with moderation privileges (starting at flagging, down voting, editing up to close voting, deleting and dupe-hammering) actually use all their options. Let's first get that organized and all hands on deck. When proven effective we can start to think about changing privileges.

My argument is not simply to add more voters, instead have the users we trust actually use all their votes, daily, every day. That difference is important to me and shouldn't be neglected by simply increasing numbers, be it votes or users.

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  • That question certainly is broad, just because many up-voted it(because hadoop was new back then and no tutorials were available), it shouldn't be kept on SO any longer since its just noise! And yes you are unable to look at all new as well as old questions because there are very few 10000+ rep users, thats the reason I say give the ability to cast delete vote to 3k+ users.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:33
  • 1
    There are more then enough users with delete-votes and close votes just not enough users that use their votes.
    – rene
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:36
  • 1
    yes, so get more on board so that people who like to contribute would do it.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:38
  • 3
    No, @AniMenon because if you gain the privilege to delete stuff you obviously are going to use that wrongly, IMHO. My argument is not simply add more voters my argument is have the users we trust use their votes. That difference is important to me and shouldn't be neglected by simply increasing numbers, be it votes or users.
    – rene
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:44
  • If that's the logic, Ani, then let's reduce the criteria for close votes to 2762. I'd like to contribute in that, but can't because I'm too lazy to answer questions for rep. The limits exist because there needs to be some minimum level of understanding, investment and participation, and rep is the easiest way to judge that.
    – TZHX
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 10:46
  • @rene If you have an opinion to put out, do it but don't point at other users wrongly. What do you mean " if you gain the privilege to delete stuff you obviously are going to use that wrongly"? And how do you say so?
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 11:06
  • 3
    You ask for and seem to argue about ways to delete questions you used as an example. I think that is wrong as it deletes value. If you don't have the intention to delete that kind of questions then why ask this meta-question in the first place.
    – rene
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 11:11
  • 3
    @rene I think this question should be deleted because its clearly a recommendation question and those are not welcome on SO.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 20:00
  • 2
    @AniMenon and it is rightfully closed. But you seen to think off-topic must be deleted because it is off topic. The point us deletion is reserved for truly bad questions, not just those you don't want to see Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 21:35
  • @psubsee2003 define a bad question. This one is not just off topic its also a recommendation question with link-only answers from google. This is an example of a bad question!
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 26, 2016 at 15:20
  • 1
    @AniMenon it is not delete worthy. You seem to be convinced that every closed and off-topic question must be deleted. Deletion is supposed to be for the truly terrible questions, not just any off-topic question. Your example is just simply a question type that the community find off-topic today, but is clear and acceptable otherwise. Commented Jun 26, 2016 at 17:05
  • 1
    @psubsee2003 define a bad question.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 27, 2016 at 3:12
  • Well, this point is moot since the question was deleted... the internet hasn't burned down yet.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 24, 2016 at 16:59
  • @Braiam but I smell some smoke ...
    – rene
    Commented Aug 24, 2016 at 17:03
  • @rene if that's the case, smokey need a fix... he hasn't rang :(
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 24, 2016 at 17:04
2

Deletion isn't meant to remove questions just because they're broad. It can be and it should remain closed, but deletion isn't meant for that.

This is what deletion is meant for, from the privilege page:

When should I delete questions?

Closed questions that are of no lasting value whatsoever should be flagged and deleted.

Before voting to delete, please check whether there are any good answers; if so, then the question should be flagged for moderator attention as a potential merge candidate. We don't like to lose great answers!

Also, be cautious when deleting questions closed as duplicates; they can serve as a signpost, directing users to useful answers on another question.

Take special note of "no lasting value". This is an important test to conduct when casting a deletion vote on a question.

Given that:

  • the question was asked in '09, back when Stack Overflow was still figuring out this sort of model,
  • the question has had over 70,000 views since its creation,
  • it maintains a positive vote count, and
  • in spite of the fact that there are a decent amount of link-only answers, those links have survived and point to industry-standard services for Hadoop,

...I'm not sure I see a point in deleting it.

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  • 2
    I know what deletion is meant for, and thats the reson I put this for a vote as 1. Its a recommendation question(these shouldn't be encouraged) 2. It doesn't come up on the first 20 google links(hence not useful and if any one clicks on this, it gives a useless list of answer which they could have found on google itself!) 3. The views are old(possibly from a time when google links weren't available) and 4. I am a hadoop developer and this question is very broad/poor as it doesn't answer a valid question which people would have.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 26, 2016 at 7:06
1

I think that you are arguing using the wrong reasons. A search for "Hadoop examples" yields several results of Hadoop documentation and other posts that are examples about how to do stuff with Hadoop. In a search using incognito Stack Overflow doesn't appear on the first page and if I do use my Google account it appears at the very end with one post, the post in question.

So, how to solve your problem? Ask for a to be deleted, and use the search results as argument. You may use Should we delete "What's the best C++ JSON parser?"? as an example.

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  • Thank you, yes one thing is that the question is to be deleted and the other is that I feel delete votes must be open to all 3k+ rep users.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:31
  • @AniMenon but.... What is your argument as to WHY the site would benefit from 3Kers being able to close? Because so far your only argument seems to be "i want to close THAT question, but don't have the rep for it", which isn't really an argument...
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:35
  • @Patrice There are so many questions which deserve to be deleted.. Its not that I want it deleted, its just that it doesn't deserve to be here and is just noise as it answers no programming question, its just a "recommendation question". And having more ppl on the job would get it done faster.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:43
  • @AniMenon but... It SHOULD'NT be deleted.... I dont have the rep for delete votes, but i wouldn't delete this. Yes it's off-topic; it's also closed. Deleting it removes value from the site. If you give deletes to 3K, about half the mod tools need to be unlocked for 3K as well, or the system will collapse. Oh and again: that question should NOT be closed....
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:49
  • @Patrice dude read through the rest of the above discussion. And why shouldn't it be deleted?
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:51
  • 1
    @AniMenon i did. That's why i repeated what everybody else told you that you didn't seem to click on. And it shouldn't be deleted because it brings VALUE to the site (did YOU read the discussions? You are asking for a right,using a question that should not be deleted as the reason to give you deletion rights...).it should be closed to prevent more crap. But right now it brings value and visitors to SO
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:54
  • 2
    @Patrice Who does it bring to SO? And It gives a very wrong impression of SO, hence these kinds of questions deserve deletion.
    – Ani Menon
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 19:58
  • @AniMenon i dont agree it gives a wrong impression. This question is clearly closed, with a reason explaining why. Anyone seeing it who can read the banner will understand why these arent welcome here. Anyway... I would stand with rene in general... We don't need more people woth the right... We need those who have the right to use it. With that said, i'll go work on the CV queue a bit
    – Patrice
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 20:03
  • 2
    @Patrice the only reason why we don't delete questions is if they have "good unique content", this fails at the unique one, as was argued in the question I linked about JSON parsers.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 25, 2016 at 20:14

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