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I'm one of the regulars that answers questions in the tag and the -related tags. Yesterday a question was asked about assembly code and a BUS ERROR on OS X. A couple of us knew the real issue (program didn't properly terminate), but important to me as well was that using a debugger would have helped track down the issue.

The now deleted answer by a 50k rep user was given, and I believe it was accepted almost immediately by the original poster. The answer had 4 bullet points and appeared as:

A few suggestions:

Finally, I'm not sure where your "bus error" is coming from. But a debugger would tell you :)

One may argue that the 3 bullet points are opinionated, and possibly off topic. I would agree that these links weren't necessary, but the third point is actually reasonable for this answer if you want to direct someone to material about developing in assembly.

The bullet points were not all of the answer. Most importantly the answer addresses the BUS ERROR. It doesn't state what is causing it, but definitely directs the OP to a proper course of action - "Use a debugger".

I downvoted the original answer but never flagged it for moderation. My downvote was related to possibly not doing enough to suggest what the root cause was. It was my opinion that this answer was more than salvageable so I left a comment about the actual source of the BUS ERROR that one would have recognized in a debugger. Had they added that bit of information I would have retracted the downvote.

In my opinion:

  • this was an answer, but maybe lacking detail. It directed the user to find the solution using a proper tool (debugger)
  • wasn't a link only answer
  • wasn't VLQ

After it was deleted I proposed my own answer, discussing the usage of a debugger, provided a link to a debugger tutorial for the OPs platform and discussed how to fix the Bus Error.

A number of hours later the person reposted his answer again (I don't really blame him). A discussion under the duplicate answer ensued where one of the original downvoters admitted that upon reflection they maybe shouldn't have downvoted. I decided to flag the deleted answer for moderation saying this:

This deletion has me a bit perplexed. This was originally an accepted answer with many downvotes. The comments suggested some downvoted because it may not have been a particularly on point answer (it is an answer, but not necessarily one that answers the question as posed). My opinion is that this should never have been deleted since the answer isn't entirely bad (and it is an answer IMHO). I don't think it is necessarily fair that it lost its accepted answer status in the process either.

The response:

declined - As pointed out in the comments, this isn't actually an answer. It doesn't say how to fix the user's issue in the answer itself (even if it is an XY problem) and is no more than a link collection.

The response makes me think the person reviewing the answer may have been swayed more by the commenters dissenting than the entirety of what was in the answer. Had it not been for mentioning the BUS ERROR and using a debugger, I may have agreed. The very last paragraph IMHO is an answer, and may simply have needed some additional information which I had hoped would be the case when I commented with:

The bus error is because the program isn't properly terminated with an exit syscall so it started executing whatever was in memory after the last instruction which resulted in a fault (in this case a bus error)

Had he simply added that the OPs BUS ERROR may have been because there was no proper exit back to the system then it would have been a reasonable answer. To say how to exit would make it a very good answer.

Questions: Is this an answer? Should it have been deleted?

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    Directing someone to where they can actually find an answer isn't an answer. It's mentioned explicitly in the definition of NAA. Also, you could cut out like 95% of this meta question by just linking to the relevant post.
    – Servy
    Jun 20, 2016 at 17:35
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    @Servy They informed the user to find the bus error with a debugger. IMHO that is in itself an answer. And in fact if you do use a debugger (which i tried this morning) the bus error gives a good indication of what the issue is when you step through the assembler instructions. Jun 20, 2016 at 17:38
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    Again, that's directing the user to where they can go to find the answer. SE defines that as being Not An Answer. Your opinion might be that it is, but SE policy very clearly states that it is not.
    – Servy
    Jun 20, 2016 at 17:40
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    @Servy : First thanks for pointing out I didn't put the link to the question in. I thought I had done it in the first paragraph. They didn't direct them to go to a page, they directed them to use a specific tool to help solve the problem. The BUS ERROR itself would have happened for a specific reason, and would be dependent on what is in memory and layout. using a debugger is about the only way to determine in particular why it occurred. For some the question in the comments became was why didn't it segfault instead of SIGBUS? Again, this can be determined by proper tool usage. Jun 20, 2016 at 17:43
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    The policy is that it's not an answer to direct the user to where they can get an actual answer, whether that's through a link, or some other form of direction, isn't relevant. It's still directing the user to go somewhere else to get an actual answer, which isn't an answer.
    – Servy
    Jun 20, 2016 at 17:47
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    As Servy says, it's a good hint. And while it's not an answer, it seems a good comment for leading someone else to discover and write one. Jun 20, 2016 at 17:50
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    @MichaelPetch If I have to leave the answer to get the answer to my problem then the answer is not an answer. If the above answer fails to provide an answer without having to click on a link it is not an answer. With that type of answer if the link dies then the answer dies with it and we do not want dead answers. Jun 20, 2016 at 17:53
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    @NathanOliver If all the links are dead then the very last comment below the links still applies. He did say Finally, I'm not sure where your "bus error" is coming from. But a debugger would tell you : So even without the links there is still an answer "use a debugger" Jun 20, 2016 at 17:55
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    @MichaelPetch use a debugger is not an answer. It is a close reason aka lacks mcve Jun 20, 2016 at 17:56
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    I categorize this as a not so good answer that is salvageable. This meta answer suggests "What not to flag Any post that attempts to answer the question, however badly is still an answer. You can downvote such posts to signal that the answer is a bad answer, but it is still an answer.". So why not downvote it and ask them to expound on the debugging aspect? The OP did just that (after accepting) but under his question, and not the answer. Jun 20, 2016 at 17:57
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    I can't speak for the moderator involved, but the comments on the original answer (many now deleted) were getting pretty nasty. I can see thinking the whole thing wasn't worth the trouble it was causing when faced with multiple flags on that answer.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Jun 20, 2016 at 18:09
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    @MichaelPetch - You don't delete a post only as a result of there being a fight in the comments. However, if I was on the fence about deleting something anyway and I saw a mess in the comments, that might be enough to convince me. Again, sometimes things just aren't worth the trouble.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Jun 20, 2016 at 18:14
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    @MichaelPetch - No one flagged the new answer, so we didn't know it was there until you posted this. Now that it has been brought up, I'm hesitant to take any action on it while this is being discussed on Meta.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Jun 20, 2016 at 18:20
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    @BradLarson : I have no ill will towards anyone over it. It wasn't my answer (and no complaint about a declined flag). I just don't know if this falls right in the "NAA" pile given that there was a tidbit to get the OP going that didn't require going to the links. I could probably add a single line (based on by comment under the original) that would have probably made that answer better. I actually considered doing it myself before the original was deleted, then I wrote my own discussing the "exit syscall". But again, using a debugger was also something that appeared in my own answer. Jun 20, 2016 at 18:23
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    You're asking the wrong question. The right question is "does this post cause enough harm that it should be forcibly removed by a moderator?" If it does, the proper course of action is to cast a custom flag and explain why. You can debate the merits and relative application of NAA until you're blue in the face (many people have tried), but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter whether it's an answer or not by the legal definition of NAA; it matters whether the post, on balance, helps or hurts the community. Jun 20, 2016 at 19:04

2 Answers 2

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I deleted that answer because it really isn't an attempt to answer the question. The fact that the OP "accepted" it doesn't mean that it was an answer to the question as written. It (supposedly) means that the OP found it helpful. But being helpful and answering the question are not necessarily the same thing.

The Question

The question, excluding the intro and code snippet, is just this:

The code compiles and links but produces a bus error when run. Does anyone have any ideas on how to overcome this?

Why the Answer Isn't an Answer

Now, as you pointed out, the answer was just a list of links. There isn't sufficient information in the answer itself to answer the question. As you put it,

I would agree that these links weren't necessary, but the third point is actually reasonable for this answer if you want to direct someone to material about developing in assembly.

If the links weren't necessary (they weren't), then what is left? Only the advice to use a debugger or a different assembler. That's like answering the question, "By writing better assembler," "By using a more convenient language than the one you've already written code in," or "By fixing the bus error." Okay... true, but not very helpful. It's only slightly better than "RTFM" or "Use jQuery!"

The bullet points were not all of the answer. Most importantly the answer addresses the BUS ERROR. It doesn't state what is causing it, but definitely directs the OP to a proper course of action - "Use a debugger".

It doesn't address the bus error, except to say, "I'm not sure where your 'bus error' is coming from."

Obligatory Shout-Out to Shog9

As explained in the legendary post Your answer is in another castle: when is an answer not an answer?, some answers really aren't answers at all. To straight-up steal Shog's image,

Not an Answer

This is a mix of the orange (option 2) and the sign (option 4). In part, the answer says, "Don't eat an apple; oranges are better" (i.e., use GNU Assembler or SASM). In part, it says, "No apples here, but I bet you can find some over there!" These are both potentially helpful thoughts, but neither one answers the question, "How do I get this worm out of this apple?"

Is this the XY Problem?

In my opinion:

this was an answer, but maybe lacking detail. It directed the user to find the solution using a proper tool (debugger) wasn't a link only answer wasn't VLQ After it was deleted I proposed my own answer, discussing the usage of a debugger, provided a link to a debugger tutorial for the OPs platform and discussed how to fix the Bus Error.

It sounds like you are basically saying that this is an instance of the XY problem, that is, the OP attempting to solve the wrong problem. To an extent, yes, it is. The OP's code would definitely be better, the OP will be a better programmer in the future, and the specific question probably would never have been asked if OP just used a debugger. But that doesn't make "use a debugger" an answer.

The XY Problem is really something more like, "How do I use regex to parse XHTML?". The answer is, "You can't, not really, and you're going about it completely wrongly. Here's how to do it instead."

But as you yourself pointed out, the question here—how to fix a specific bus error—does have a root cause that is fixable, and the question is therefore answerable. You even posted an answer stating the answer. But the deleted answer doesn't do that. It just says, in effect, "Be a better programmer and use better tools."

Aren't those Links Helpful?

Sure. They're very helpful, as a comment. But "go here, learn a new assembler, and use a debugger" simply doesn't answer the question "how to overcome" a particular bus error in a particular chunk of code.

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    Only observation is that It doesn't address the bus error, except to say, "I'm not sure where your 'bus error' is coming from." . He actually suggested using a debugger to learn why the BUS ERROR was occurring. To find a BUS ERROR in a particular environment is best done in a debugger (let it fail on the instruction and display it for you). My opinion is that is wasn't the best answer, but using a debugger in this case was a very good idea. I didn't have a debugger available so my answer had to guess as to the specifics for that fault. Jun 20, 2016 at 18:28
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    @MichaelPetch Yes, but that's not an answer as to where it is coming from. Imagine the scenario we see every day in which someone says, "Here's my website code; it doesn't work." Now imagine the answer, "I don't know why it doesn't work, but your log files do!" We would delete that, too, for exactly the same reason. Very helpful as a comment, but it's not an answer.
    – elixenide
    Jun 20, 2016 at 18:30
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    @MichaelPetch While using a debugger may well be a good idea, that doesn't make suggesting using it an answer. It just makes it good advice that you should post in a comment.
    – Servy
    Jun 20, 2016 at 18:30
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    In this case had you used a debugger and stepped over the last instruction in the code, the fatal flaw in the program is readily identifiable.That is why in this case I felt that using a debugger wasn't actually such a bad response for this case. Jun 20, 2016 at 18:31
  • Since this is a done deal and both have been deleted, this question doesn't seem all that relevant. Jun 20, 2016 at 18:41
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    @MichaelPetch It's still a relevant question, and these kinds of edge cases come up all the time. I'm not surprised this one came up on Meta. I'm glad you asked it and did so respectfully.
    – elixenide
    Jun 20, 2016 at 18:46
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    @EdCottrell : Not a problem. What we agree on I think is that in this particular case it might be closer to an edge case. If I saw this happen again I'd downvote; and not flagged as NAA; comment, hope answerer enhances the answer. In a year and a half this is the first situation I encountered where it wasn't entirely clear given the nature of the question. Jun 20, 2016 at 19:19
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    Is it a combination of 2 & 4 of Shogs picture? 2 is when someone talks completely out of the context, which I don't think is the issue here? And 4 is applicable in cases where the user answers with "here is the answer". If you strip the links from the given answer, it still contains information, namely that you should use a debugger. For me it's rather a case of the 3rd/5th picture, the answer tells you what to do, but now how to solve it, so it appears as a partial/bad answer to me.
    – g00glen00b
    Jun 21, 2016 at 8:10
  • @g00glen00b without the links it contains information, yes, but as you say, that information is just advice to use a debugger. That's really not an answer; it's advice about how to get an answer.
    – elixenide
    Jun 21, 2016 at 11:17
  • OK, but I thought that NAA was reserved for things completely unrelated. If I answered that question with "The answer is 42", that would be NAA. In this case I still think the answer contained info to put the OP in the right direction. I also read @MichaelPetch his answer to that question and I couldn't help noticing that he also spent a paragraph to debugging, so considering that info I still think it's rather a "partial answer" (or a "bad answer") rather than "not an answer". But I'm a complete noob on the given area, so I'm not sure either.
    – g00glen00b
    Jun 21, 2016 at 12:03
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    This is a personal opinion: I value NAAs that describe how to solve a class of problems including whatever problem I'm having SIGNIFICANTLY more than I care about if an answer that I got is an answer or not. Jun 21, 2016 at 14:59
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    @PooyanKhosravi The point is: if it's not an answer, it belongs in the comments. A non-answer is not an answer, and will be deleted when it comes to our attention. But helpful comments that don't answer the question are great. That's one major reason why we have both answers and comments.
    – elixenide
    Jun 21, 2016 at 15:03
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    @EdCottrell I understand this is a rule but I'm trying to look at it from asker's perspective. An actual answer solves one specific problem, this kind of NAA solves a class of problems. Right now it doesn't seem very logical to me why specific solution should be promoted over general solution. Jun 21, 2016 at 15:10
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    @PooyanKhosravi It's not about promoting a "specific solution" over a "general solution." It's that the "general solution" isn't a solution at all. It's in the same category as "fix your code," "RTFM," "use a better assembler/IDE/compiler/OS/whatever," and so on. It may well be good advice, and it may lead to a solution, but it is not itself a solution. Non-answers are not answers, period. That's how a Q&A site has to work if it's not going to fill up with garbage.
    – elixenide
    Jun 21, 2016 at 15:14
  • Or maybe a comment to a tutorial on how to use those debuggers...
    – rogerdpack
    Sep 23, 2019 at 17:05
-1

If a question asks "how do I find the cause of this problem", or something similar, and the cause of the problem could be easily found by using a debugger, "learn how to use a debugger and use it" is indeed an answer. But it is not an answer to a well asked question "what causes this problem" when the asker has evidently already used a debugger to investigate the problem.

I got so sick of worthless questions that indicate that the asker does not understand how a debugger can help, I created a question as a candidate for a canonical question: What is a debugger and how can it help me diagnose problems?.

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