187

This isn't a big deal, but I'm annoyed and need to ask: What do you do when the Asker copies your answer and edits it to his liking?

I answered a question. The Asker thanked me and requested a reasonable modification. I made the modification. So far so good.

The Asker then edited my answer and accepted it. The edits were, in my view, inappropriate, so I rolled them back and left a polite comment explaining why.

The Asker didn't take kindly to that, apparently, because he then copied my answer with the edits he wanted anyway, accepted his own answer, and even removed his upvote from my answer. Basically, I was punished for not accepting his edit.

The edits were mostly stylistic changes that did not materially improve the answer. They were on matters that most would agree should be up to the individual, and definitely not appropriate for one person to push on another.

For example, this part of my answer:

Once you have a DataFrame, writing to multiple outputs based on a particular key is simple. What's more -- and this is the beauty of the DataFrame API -- the code is pretty much the same across Python, Scala, Java and R:

Was edited to this:

To write to multiple outputs based on a particular key is now simple. The code is pretty much the same across Python, Scala, Java and R:

Why remove the part about "the beauty of the DataFrame API"? An edit like this simply alters the voice of the original author without actually improving the content.

What really gets to me is that this user has almost 10k in rep and has been on SO for almost 4 years. How do you participate on SO for so long and not understand that edits like this are not appropriate? And that exacting revenge (well, petty Internet revenge, but still revenge :) on the Answerer for rejecting your edit is also not cool?

Anyway, I don't know if there is a course of action to take here. I'm mostly just annoyed and wanted to call out this bad behavior.

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    I've looked at nothing else than the linked Q&A, but the asker seems to be in the habit of editing many of the answers to his question with what definitely should be comments. And I fully agree that the edit to your question introducing the "TLDR" bit was not appropriate. Commented May 17, 2016 at 16:41
  • 11
    I usually leave these discussions to the more experienced community members, but I at least wanted to (and did) rollback this edit / addition the asker made to the top answer: UPDATE: This is still a good answer but converting to a DataFrame and using the now accepted answer is better.
    – CubeJockey
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 17:47
  • 1
    i think he wanted to use your answer as a code snippet for his own stuff (that is why he put in the RDD thing) by rolling it back it he couldn't simply do a copy/paste in his codebase for later use. i agree that your answer is better since it actual have valid code in it (i know nothing about that language but i trust you here)
    – Fredou
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 17:47
  • 1
    @BenjaminW. Is this a good example of an edit more appropriate as a comment? Namely the records.map rewrite.
    – CubeJockey
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 17:52
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    @CubeJockey: It's not even appropriate as a comment. Nobody really cares that you camel case your identifiers, prefer narrower tabs and hate for loops.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 17:57
  • 1
    @BoltClock sure, I was ignoring the camelcase. There were a couple other changes I wasn't sure about. I'm not familiar with the language, so I stayed out.
    – CubeJockey
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 18:08
  • 5
    Looks like the answer's been removed/deleted.
    – CubeJockey
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 18:28
  • 1
    @CubeJockey I made that edit to the upvoted answer while I had accepted Nicks answer - I want people to know that Nicks answer was way better since newer versions of Spark. The camelcase is irrelevant, it was my point about Datasets and case classes that I wanted to preserve.
    – samthebest
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 13:56
  • 1
    You've got two options. Roll the edits back, which you did, or ignore it and move on. I've had this happen to me, and I've considered rolling the edits back, but usually I just ignore it. I recently had this happen to me, because the editor didn't like the way in which I structured my answer. He made no formatting changes, just changes to the structure. And yes, it was annoying as heck.
    – Deacon
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:45
  • 5
    Let's just hope poor Asker doesn't get any nasty meta backlash due to their actions. Commented May 18, 2016 at 18:48
  • 2
    Did you have a question?
    – fgb
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 12:30
  • 1
    I've been there too. In my case the Op initially downvoted my answer and stated it was completely wrong. After some time he copy & pasted it in his own answer and accepted this last one. Thank to the meta effect his answer reached -21 votes and was later deleted (and everyone lived happily ever after).
    – Bakuriu
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 15:30
  • 5
    @fgb - It's right there in the second sentence of the post. Granted, it's easy to forget after reading my gut-wrenching sob story. :) Commented May 19, 2016 at 15:51
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    I like how his "improvement" to the snippet you quoted is grammatically incorrect.
    – Jake
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 18:35
  • 3
    @Jake: Well, you haven't explained why/how you think it's "grammatically incorrect", but I assure you it is not. Commented Jun 26, 2017 at 16:31

3 Answers 3

169

Yes, this sounds like poor behaviour to me.

On the one hand, taking an existing answer and building upon it for a "more correct" or "more thorough" alternative is encouraged, even if the author of the new post is the question's OP.

On the other hand, this isn't that. It's just childish. The edit clearly changes your intent while not substantively adding value to the answer. To then go and remove what were obviously deliberately-given votes and checkmarks only moments ago simply because you rightly rejected these edits looks like the beginnings of a tantrum.

In the interests of assuming good faith, studying the user's edit history I'm going to assume for now that they just misunderstand how the "collaboratively edited" part of the Stack Exchange model is supposed to be used in practice, because they seem to have a long history of these kinds of edits. And that they lashed out a little here in the aftermath, because we all get emotional from time to time.

It's probably not serious enough for a moderator flag, no matter how frustrating it may be. But, if the behaviour escalates, this user may be headed for trouble, most likely on the grounds of plagiarism (which this clearly is). In fact, come to think of it, perhaps that's already serious enough for a quick flag. Let's see what happens.

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    The answer, as it is currently written, is distinct enough from Nick's that a moderator would very likely decline a plagiarism flag on it. Sure the answer is the same in concept but given that it originated as a complete rewrite on someone else's answer, it's only right they posted it separately instead. The tantrum, of course, is a separate matter altogether.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 18:01
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    Should the user have acknowledged Nick's contribution within their self-answer? Perhaps doing so will make everyone (except themself maybe) feel better, but it's a bit of a grey area here.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 17, 2016 at 18:08
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    @BoltClock: Agreed; it can be quite difficult to know where to draw the line with "substantive" vs "non-substantive" edits, especially as pertains to creating follow-up answers that draw on content first presented in older answers. Personally, I would tend to accept an attribution as sufficient compromise but, well, I'm not the one asking. :) Commented May 17, 2016 at 18:13
  • 1
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit The reason I edit a lot of answers/questions is because I'm trying to improve them. I have no intention of "plagiarising", which is why I edited his answer first. Yes some edits where "style", but one part was indeed "substantively adding value" (see my answer on this thread). Nick didn't leave that in, so I just added my own answer.
    – samthebest
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:16
  • 25
    This is a pattern, though, @sam. As BoltClock said above, "Nobody really cares that you camel case your identifiers, prefer narrower tabs and hate for loops." Editing posts to make those changes to fit your personal preferences is not okay. "Stealing" the accept and removing your earlier downvote because someone didn't like your edit is definitely not okay. Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:26
  • 2
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit I edited the answer to make it better, objectively so, since as discussed in my answer to this thread I added useful and relevant information. I don't care if some people cannot see that, if I can see a way to improve things with certainty, I will.
    – samthebest
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:44
  • 49
    @samthebest: If you "don't care" that "some people" (aka the majority of this community, including the moderators) disapprove of your actions, and you insist on continuing anyway, I see trouble in your future! There is absolutely nothing "objective" about variable naming conventions, so your "certainty" is a misplaced sense of self-confidence. Commented May 18, 2016 at 15:11
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit I'm not talking about the naming conventions! I'm taking about the point I made in my answer to this thread. Also teams turn naming conventions into an objective matter using style checkers - i.e. bad style will objectively break the build. But anyway, we are not arguing about naming conventions here, I already said that.
    – samthebest
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 15:26
  • @LightnessRacesinOrbit I didn't mind the naming convention revert (it was ambiguous anyway since the answer was kinda referring to two languages), I minded the removal of a correct and useful bit of information. But anyway, as you have demanded, I will go ahead and create another thread if Nick doesn't want to include that information. I think your confusing two separate points.
    – samthebest
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 15:31
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    Personnaly i already reused some answer of some people instead of editing it, none of them complained about it when they saw it. If i do this I refer to the author of the first answer and rewrite an answer that include the elements of the first one more mines. I already saw some answer that, instead of being rewritten, an edit was added at the end including the full extra information. It happens often when the solution is for an old version of a component and there is a new way of doing it in the new one while the old doesn't work anymore. Full editing someone else post is just a bad idea IMO.
    – Walfrat
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 14:17
  • 3
    @Walfrat I think that your liberty to edit depends somewhat on what type of edits you plan on making. I have done some pretty extensive rewriting (mostly questions) because the grammar was a train wreck, but I always try to maintain the author's intent (many non-native speakers appreciate these edits enormously). In this case, however, the answer was perfectly fine.
    – Laurel
    Commented May 20, 2016 at 0:17
  • @BoltClock If a plagiarism flag would have been declined, what about a custom flag explaining a history of similar, poor edits (as Lightness' answer indicates is the case)? If so, this would seem to be a larger problem than a one off copy/revise answer.
    – jpmc26
    Commented May 20, 2016 at 5:07
  • @jpmc26: See my second comment on Travis J's answer.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 20, 2016 at 5:21
  • I believe I just read the post regarding on this. As far as I can remember it was about jquery bootstrap throwing errors. The OP just copied the suggested correct answer and posted it as his own. Commented May 19, 2017 at 22:16
  • I'm surprised that you say "It's probably not serious enough for a moderator flag". It sounds like pretty bad behavior to me. I would want a community free of such behavior (well "free of" is probably not possible so let's say "with the least of").
    – Ela782
    Commented Aug 17, 2018 at 17:15
58

While it may be a "gray area" to some, to me this is situation is pretty cut and dry. I dislike what was done, and strongly disagree with simply copy paste remixing an answer for some petty reason.

I believe that a custom moderator flag would be appropriate in this situation, even if it does get declined. Further, I think that bringing it to meta was the best course of action as it let the community decide as a group instead of forcing a moderator to make a unilateral decision.

My vote was the last one to delete the answer, and it is at present deleted. Copying answers in that fashion is dishonest at best.

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    "I believe that a custom moderator flag would be appropriate in this situation, even if it does get declined." And people wonder why we have 200+ custom flags in the queue at any given time, why their custom flags seem to take days or weeks to process...
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:46
  • 2
    @BoltClock - No need to wonder at all. People game the flag metric because they view approved flags as reputation. Sorry that their behavior negatively effects you. I view copy pasting answers as serious enough to involve a moderator and that is why I said that. It is just part of the escalation process. If the flag is declined from a moderator standpoint, and the issue is serious, then it can have community oversight instead of unilateral.
    – Travis J
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 19:56
  • 2
    Fair enough. Though I'm still having a very difficult time seeing how this is a case of copying and pasting an answer. As I stated, the answer originated as a rewrite so substantial it might as well have been an original presentation of the same ideas as the existing answer. And that's not exactly cut-and-dry plagiarism. That said you can make a case for your flag if you think someone needs a talking-to because they're behaving dishonestly, I just wouldn't call this straight-up plagiarism.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 2:11
-94

All I wanted to do was add a couple of points, you know, give people more information. I'm pretty sure that's what Stack Overflow is for, right? I don't care about magic made-up Internet points; that's why I edited Nicks answer first off.

When my edits were rolled back how am I supposed to include the information?

If the other people carefully read the edits and the comments they will see it has nothing really to do with style. It all comes down to this:

Nick said "I don't know much about Datasets, so the note about Dataset[SomeCaseClass] is more appropriate as a comment". I disagree, that is a very useful bit of information, it appears you just do not trust that it is correct information.

Nick, if you please just leave that part in I would REALLY appreciate it. Please trust me it is true ... I even tested it. I'll go and add it as a comment, but really I don't see why you have to exclude it just because you are not sure yourself. Go ahead and reject all the other edits, but please just leave that in - test it yourself.

Nick, you should be able to blatantly see that my objective is clear, to help people use Spark - in fact most of my reputation points are from Spark-related questions. I have no other motivations; I'm not trying to pollute your answer with false information.

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    "...it appears you just do not trust that it is correct information." Which means you shouldn't put those words in the original author's mouth. If you'd left it as a comment, maybe Nick could've done more a bit more research when he had time so he could verify the correctness, and then he can edit it in himself if he feels it's relevant. If you just edit it in and (keeping in mind I'm not saying this is the case) it turns out to be wrong, Nick's the one that would get downvotes for the incorrect statement, not you as the editor.
    – Kendra
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:13
  • 77
    "Please trust me it is true" That is not how this website works. We value peer review, which means you must be willing to accept people validating whether what you think is true actually is true. How can we do that when you bury this information on existing posts that have already been highly upvoted for different content? I think we all appreciate the intent (improving things) but you've got to be more careful how you go about it! There is a good reason that we generally do not encourage fundamental changes to other people's posts. Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:27
  • 1
    @Kendra a) I very much doubt anyone would ever downvote his answer if it so happened that that particular statement was wrong. b) just by the very nature of that statement if one applies a bit of reasoning, there is negligible probability that the statement is wrong. It would be like if I said "all horses are mammals", are you going to go and find every horse on the planet and check it's a mammal? No it's just probably true, yeah, maybe some culture refers to some lizard as a horse or some edge case or something, but that isn't how reasoning works.
    – samthebest
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:33
  • 15
    @samthebest You'd be surprised how quickly or easily someone would downvote answers. There are people that downvote great answers to poor questions just because the answer's on a poor question. Do keep in mind, I'm not saying that would happen in this specific case. I'm also not saying your details were wrong in this specific case, as I have no domain knowledge for this one. But it is a good reason to leave a polite comment if you feel some detail should be added, rather than editing the detail in without the original author's approval.
    – Kendra
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 14:37
  • 59
    "When my edits were rolled back how am I supposed to include the information?" As a comment, like everybody has been telling you, and like I originally suggested. If I don't know enough about Datasets and case classes, then I cannot accept an edit about those things because then I'm on the hook for that information, like @Kendra correctly pointed out. When you add that same information as a comment, people can see that it's your information and can vote on it separately. Highly upvoted comments are always a good source of additional information on answers. Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:00
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    "If the other people carefully read the edits and the comments they will see it has nothing really to do with style, it all comes down to [the bit about Datasets]." False! As I pointed out in my comment explaining why I rolled back your edit, there were 3 problems with your edit, all of which merited a rollback, not just the bit about Datasets. Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:07
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    To recap the other two reasons, because you seem to be discounting them: 1. You changed the wording of my sentences just to fit your style, as I brought up again in my post here. The changes were completely irrelevant to the quality of the answer, and just muddied my voice as an author. 2. Though my answer didn't follow Scala style conventions, I actually tested it! When you edited my Python example, you introduced a bug by calling a method that doesn't exist in Spark's Python API. You can pat yourself on the back all you want about improving answers, but that was a careless edit. Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:11
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    "If you really think I'm on some insane "revenge" rampage to tarnish your name for the rest of eternity by including a single sentence that you could easily verify yourself, then I guess I'll have to create another thread." - No, I don't think that. Including that sentence was just a bad edit. The "petty revenge" I mentioned in my post here was you removing your votes from my answer and creating a duplicate answer. Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:14
  • 18
    I understand your motivation, Sam. You want the accepted answer to be "complete" and have all the relevant information in one place. I get that and I think it's a good goal to aim for. But the way you went about it, as we've been discussing here, was not right. And yes, it was petty of you to remove both your accept and your upvote and essentially duplicate my answer, just because I rolled back your edit. Anyway, I've upvoted your comment on my answer because it adds useful information and -- as everybody's been saying here -- it's the right place to capture that information. Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:39
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    "You seem to object to that, furthermore you believe by adding that information in some other way (since you are so against it)" - I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot, but to reiterate what everybody's been saying: Nobody is against adding extra information to an answer. What everybody has been saying is that in this case, regarding the particular note about Datasets, the right way to do that is by adding a comment. It's not appropriate as an edit, and it's not enough to merit a whole new answer. Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:41
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    Will you two kids stop crying and get to work! Take this to chat or some other medium.
    – JonH
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 16:47
  • 97
    @samthebest: What I think you are not getting is the fundamental peer-review nature of this site. Lightness Races in Orbit expressed it pretty well already, but I would strengthen the language even further, to make it crystal clear: It doesn't matter if you are omniscient, and literally know everything there is to know about everything. It doesn't matter if you are provably always right about every technical detail. You STILL are not entitled to "correct" or "improve" people's posts to the point that they feel it no longer represents their voice or their intent.
    – John Y
    Commented May 18, 2016 at 17:00
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    @JohnY - Wow end of story I'd say...
    – JonH
    Commented May 19, 2016 at 13:31
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    I don't know Scala at all, but I actually like your asnwer. It seems to get to the point more quickly, and is less chatty. I don't think you should have tried to edit Nick's answer so much in the first place. You also shouldn't have removed your upvote on Nick's answer; it's still good. I'm undecided on whether accepting your own rewritten answer is appropriate. I think maybe yes. Anyway, at this point you are being punished for doing it the wrong way. I think downvoting/deleting your answer is an overreaction, but it sounds like you've been overdoing it with edits. Commented May 20, 2016 at 5:18
  • 4
    Yikes, kinda want to throw you a sympathy upvote.
    – Henry
    Commented May 26, 2017 at 14:22

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