-75

When I read an interesting question like this one, I really don't understand why Stack Exchange created the off-topic closing tag: "recommend or find a tool, library or favorite off-site resource for Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam" and moves those questions to Software Recommendations. The last questions around this issue are:

Why won't Stack Exchange reconsider the existence of « recommend or find a tool » off-topic tag? Is it planned?

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  • 21
    Nothing has changed to suggest is should be reconsidered, and that you think it should be so that people can promote their new libraries or products suggests that the close reason is serving it's primary purpose (to prevent promotional answers).
    – TZHX
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 11:08
  • So I should have asked, why ban promotional answers when someone asks a specific question to find them.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 11:12
  • 7
    We don't "ban" the answers, we just don't accept the questions.
    – TZHX
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 11:14
  • see also: Why can we not post asking for resources for learning on StackOverflow?
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 11:27
  • 2
    I don't want that kind of question, and I'm surely not alone. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 11:54
  • 3
    Since when has refusing debate-style queries about the pros and cons of various libs been against the « Get It Done » philosophy? If posters want it got done, they should get with doing it instead of bothering others with library quests for some purpose that only they know clearly. No, I don't want to see library product research requests on SO. Users with a library requiirement should study the market themselves, or pass on a clear requirement spec to a freelancer, not try to outsource their work to SO for free. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 12:01
  • 5
    @crazyfr so what are those solutions? And which users should we be thinking about first? If you have a more constructive solution than "allow recommendations", please post that. Also, be aware that there actually is Software Recommendations.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 12:23
  • 23
    My main question to you: why does it have to be stack? You act as if the fact stack doesn't allow these questions will kill the open source community..... then open your OWN site and let these questions fly. The Internet is vast and Stack doesn't have to answer EVERYTHING about programming.... Why can't people accept that as a site, as a community, we do NOT want these questions. You say "maybe yes, maybe no:".... your question stands at -17... the community seems to agree.
    – Patrice
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 12:23
  • 10
    "Allow this kind of question only if asker has a certain reputation" - and given that SO already takes flak for being elitist and exclusionary, how would that go? Currently anybody can ask any (on-topic) question, and I think changing that would go against the whole purpose of the site. The other points seem to be more about the answers than the questions.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 13:30
  • 2
    The problem is that today solution-1 is the best path to take but in six months some major issues have been found with it and now solution-2 is the best. A year later solution-3 and solution-4 have been introduced and both are better then the previous solutions. This brings up the issue that product recommendations can change over time and the recommended tool can later go away or be discovered to have issues.
    – Joe W
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 14:00
  • 2
    @JoeW That's the problem with recommendations in general but still, look at the number of upvotes and the traffic these questions generate and you see that there is a value in asking questions about software tools. Software Recommendations is the living proof of that, although somehow it is not very popular and people are expecting these questions rather here on StackOverflow instead. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 14:17
  • 11
    Sure, they bring traffic, but do the users who visit those posts actually obtain valuable information? How many of these recommendation answers are just pure garbage, linking to libraries that are old/out of date or obsolete, or just poor solutions in general? Asking for someone else to recommend a library for your project is a bad idea in general. I don't see why we would want to promote people doing so. You could essentialy have an endless supply of "Should i use AngularJS or React for my project?" questions that can't be closed as dupes because each project is different.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 14:54
  • 9
    Is there a reason you don't want to go to Software Recommendations, as was suggested by jonrsharpe? There's an SE site where these questions are on topic, as long as you follow their quality guidelines. So what's the problem?
    – BSMP
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 15:35
  • 2
    I've edited the grammar in your question. I also took out the formatting you had from the title, as it makes it difficult for people to understand what you are asking at a glance. I suggest you don't continually edit back in grammatical errors. I will edit my answer to reflect your question with the grammatically correct edits. If you continue to edit it. I will roll it back to the version I answered and flag for mod attention. As a question should not be edited to invalidate answers. meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/290297/…
    – user3956566
    Commented Mar 19, 2016 at 1:13
  • 2
    If you don't like the question, you don't have to read or participate in it. Why not just let the invisible hand sort it out after you set up the right incentive structures in the reputation system -- instead of this third party wikilawyering to try to prevent people who want to ask questions from connecting with people who want to answer them. Commented Mar 24, 2017 at 3:57

3 Answers 3

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Why won't Stack Exchange reconsider the existence of « recommend or find a tool » off-topic tag?

  1. Questions asking for recommendations attract link only answers (of course). Links are in the habit of rotting over time, which makes this type of question not a good fit for a Q&A site.

  2. Questions like this also attract spam. The site has enough trouble with spam and some people can be fooled into thinking it's an honest answer if questions like these are allowed on the site.

  3. We also now have Software Recommendations and Hardware Recommendations

  4. Lastly, the site has developed since it began and we are focused on Programming questions, not recommendations about programming.

History:

You asked in chat about this.

thanks, I think I just need to speak to the right person in Stack Roadmap Team with the right argument to make thing change or to make me see reason with tangible argument. Until that, I will keep trying. I just don't know who to contact ... :/

As I mentioned here, after some discussion in chat.

although SE is an organisation and the "powers that be" have the last say, it prides itself on community input. The community and the organisation doesn't want recommendations, there is also a softwareRecommendations.SE and a HardwareREcommendations.SE. And as has been mentioned here, it attracts spam and link only answers, which have proven not to survive the ravages of time. So the site doesn't want them.


Is it planned?

And as I mentioned in chat. This has been discussed by the site:

Where can I ask about "finding a tool, library, or favorite off-site resource?"

Are recommendations for books or tools off topic?

Request to reopen question on 'Which framework'

Where can I ask for recommendations for good and tested online training websites for ASP.NET?

Where to ask how to start with stuff related to programming?

Is it wrong to ask about the existence of a library?

How/where can I best ask about resources for Computer Science self-study?

And all evidence would suggest the community doesn't want these types of questions on SO and so yes, it was planned.

To answer your many comments wanting it to be open for discussion.

The community regards this as a closed issue and no longer wishes to debate it. That was the point of all the links I provided. As for further discussion, your question here has been answered.

From the comments:

"what matters is to leave the debate open ... We need open space to speak about it" - what do you think Meta is? "Which solution to bring back software recommendation [sic] inside SO" - no solution is needed, there isn't a problem. Thus far, it is disfavoured more than ten to one. You need to stop thinking of this a problem with SO to be solved. – jonrsharpe

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  • @AlexeiLevenkov tyvm! oh and yes, I was replying to the OPs question.. I agree it's odd.
    – user3956566
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:19
  • 1 could be circumvented by requiring the addition of an explanation. And I do not see why this is not a good fit, it is questionable. Main point is 2 which imply creation of 3 and 4. And on the other side : A - right now users need to post two identical questions on two community because sometime a question could be answered with help or with tools (do I need to reinvent the wheel or not). B - those tools questions tend to encourage « Get the thing done » without reinventing the wheel, a good practice any many case. C - this functionality could be here without being annoying for others users.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:38
  • Maybe it could be interesting to discute together about solution in another SO question about « Which solution » ?
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:39
  • @crazyfr you could try asking another question, although I don't see the community support for it sorry :/
    – user3956566
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:40
  • 1
    @crazyfr Questions asking about which solution to use are off-topic (opinionated). Again, they tend to attract low-quality, opinionated answers.
    – cimmanon
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:41
  • Oki, what matters is to leave the debate open and to know the options and risks. @cimmanon Arf, how should I formulate it ? We need open space to speak about it :/ « Which solution to bring back software recommandation inside SO, and remove "recommend or find a tool" off-topic tag ? » ?
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:44
  • @crazyfr, I think the title and finally question is ok (leave this to not invalidate answer), because if no one want's it back no need to discus how, just edit in why you like it back, let people understand more clearly your view. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 16:54
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    @crazyfr "what matters is to leave the debate open ... We need open space to speak about it" - what do you think Meta is? "Which solution to bring back software recommandation [sic] inside SO" - no solution is needed, there isn't a problem. Thus far, it is disfavoured more than ten to one. You need to stop thinking of this a problem with SO to be solved.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 19:30
  • @jonrsharpe "there isn't a problem", maybe not for present powers users. But it's subjective. It could be a major problem for every new user. On the other side, this feature could be present without bothering you, and could make Stack more complete and more convenient.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 21:39
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    It could, OTOH, it may fill SO with so much rubbish that the highy-skilled and experienced engineers who answer the good questions find some other, more productive, way of spending their spare time. Given the overwhelming 'NO' signal of -54, guess which is most likely:( Commented Mar 19, 2016 at 13:26
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Totally agree!! This actually is a little limit for StackOverflow.

Say that they would attract spam or they would be easily out of date does not limit the usefulness of these kind of questions...

Moreover with the specific software suggestions QA (Software recommendation) will bring these topics out of the StackOverflow scope and dock, which is a big amazing container of information, just because we fear an incorrect use of it, or instrumentalization of these kind of questions.

Again, I was looking for a tool to design branching flow management, which honestly i'm finding very hard to find on my own.

Lot of Version of control expert on stackOverflow that would be happy to share their "know how", and that would not certainly be around on Software recommendation

Please consider this just as my though, I'm not saying you are wrong, i'm right, but i'm saying let's try to re-consider this...

A wrong answer is wrong, and it needs to be highlighted and under voted but an opinion should never be denigrated even if not shared, as that's the base for freedom of thought and seed of changes.

-50

Why I think it is useful to bring back software recommendation inside Stack Overflow?

  • Those tools questions tend to encourage « Get the thing done » without reinventing the wheel, a good practice in many cases. This is why this goal outperforms all difficulties we will encounter on the way
  • Nowadays, users need to post nearly duplicate questions on two different communities (Stack Overflow and softwarerecs.stackexchange.com), because sometimes a question could be answered with help or with tools (« do I need to reinvent the wheel or not ») (Cf. example in the question). If it's only post on Stack Overflow, it implies hypocrites reformulations in many case to remove off-topic tag, very frustrating.
  • When someone asks for specific tools, it doesn't help the open-source community and young SaaS startup, by removing an opportunity to communicate about good libraries/tools. It's like saying, you need to reinvent the wheel.
  • This functionality could be here without being annoying for other users.
  • Those questions drain a lot of interest before they are closed. This shows interest by a subset of users
  • It should on Stack Overflow because duplicate quite similar tool outside of Stack is hard and a bad practice, and unity is strength.

How to tackle link-only answers (that break and get outdated):

  1. Forbid short answers. A link always need to be explained based on the question (bot)
  2. IP address changed or new redirect, then check if HTML change (bot)
  3. Detect well-known which stop to be post (bot)
  4. Add a warning in case of doubt
  5. Add a reask button if answer need to be updated (already working on Quora)

How to tackle the spam problem:

  1. Detect a spammy profile
  2. Forbid answers with link from a new profile
  3. Detect link with a lot of downvotes to automatic ban them (bot)

How to tackle question too large like: « Which framework is best for everything »

  1. There is already a flag for that it shouldn't be an issue
  2. Part of those questions could be detected by a bot

How to detect marketing post/question?

  1. Make a disclaimer compulsory (else add a red flag on an user if we detect it)
  2. If text around the link answer the question, and stays KISS, it shouldn't be an issue.
  3. Detect questions from bots is already a problem. I don't see why it would be different. We would have an answer only if we try.

I know that most of you think it's a Pandora's box. But on the other side possibilities are huge. At least, we should keep trying.

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  • 2
    How can a bot differentiate between marketing babble and a proper technical explanation? Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 18:08
  • 2
    How can we differentiate between a bot asking for a software recommendation vs a human? (besides the 4-5 identical answers that usually follow, which would likely happen for legitimate questions of this form anyway)
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 18:09
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    Right now users need to post nearly duplicate questions on two different communities - No, you don't. If all you want to know is how to accomplish something, then you can ask that here: "I'm trying to accomplish X. I've tried A, B, and C which don't work. Here's what I've done so far. {code}" That's it. If other users know of a tool that will help, they will say so. The rule against recs/find requests applies to questions. It doesn't mean folks can't suggest something in answers.
    – BSMP
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 19:01
  • 7
    Our goal here on SO is not to help the open source community, it's to help programmers solve a specific problem. If there is a new open source project that would like to get the word out about their project, there are plenty of other places to advertise (Reddit, etc.) where it will be welcomed with open arms.
    – cimmanon
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 20:53
  • As it happens, Stack Exchange did work on a bot to detect dead links for a while. There was even a beta review queue for it. But the project got cancelled for some reason -- maybe too many false positives. Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 20:56
  • @Deduplicator I provide answer in my question, what do you think ?
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 22:00
  • @KevinB subjective we can not know if it will increase this issue without trying.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 22:01
  • @BSMP the example in the orignal question show the opposite PoV, moreover it implies hypocrites reformulations by many users, very frustrating IMHO.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 22:01
  • @cimmanon right, but it would be a nice side effect. Anyway people need to speak about the right tool in the right place (after a product is release is place could be here.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 22:01
  • @JeremyBanks But the project got cancelled for some reason Interesting, it would be nice to know why, I didn't find reason.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 22:01
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    "we should try" <- we already tried. Software recommendations used to be allowed here up until about 2 years ago for reasons you don't seem to want to accept. There's no upside to allowing this. Want to ask for a software recommendation? Use Reddit, chat (chat.SE or IRC), the SE site dedicated to software recommendations, your blog, etc. What you're proposing here is more effort than it is worth (answers get outdated in months, etc.)
    – cimmanon
    Commented Mar 18, 2016 at 23:19
  • @cimmanon I understand, but I disagree about risk–benefit ratio. And it is not because it was a failure, that we shouldn't try again. The famous Mark Twain quote is here for this purpose : “They did not know it was impossible so they did it”.
    – Antoine F.
    Commented Mar 19, 2016 at 0:22
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    Disagree all you want. SO votes '-54'. You're done. Commented Mar 19, 2016 at 13:29
  • @crazyfr It's not risk-benefit, it's the rare times it works despite everything is not worth the cost to all the rest / the myriad times it doesn't in this case. Think of it not like buying a handful of lots for a lottery, but (nearly) all of them. Commented Mar 22, 2016 at 12:53

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