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tl;dr: It's time to stop letting people add stolen content to our site's tag wikis. Reviewers are letting this through, so let's start with the reviewers. These users are reviewing incorrectly and harming the site. Let's set a policy that approving blatant plagiarism will get you a short break from review.

Before reading this, read Let's stop tag wiki plagiarism. That post was met with a fair amount of support, so now I propose we move on and implement a few things.

In the previous post, we established that approving plagiarism is abuse. We've been tolerating that abuse for too long; it's time for it to stop.

Let's set a simple policy: Approving blatant plagiarism is a one-way ticket to a review ban. Here's my (fairly conservative) definition of 'plagiarism' in this case:

  • The edit must be recent; we don't want to go through a whole backlog and ban reviewers who aren't doing anything wrong today. This is, essentially, a statute of limitations. Something that happened two days ago should be flagged; something that happened two weeks ago probably shouldn't. Use your judgment.

  • The plagiarized part must be substantial such that it qualifies as creative content. This should be determined by a moderator, but it's generally clear cut.

  • There must be no attribution to the original source in either the tag wiki or excerpt. It's not plagiarism if it's attributed.

    This should serve to eliminate most of the edge cases we would have with this. Everyone caught by this needs to be approving unquestionably bad things.

Implementation details / FAQ:

How long should the ban be? I don't think this needs to be long at all - just long enough to get the reviewers' attention. A single day would suffice in the vast majority of cases.

What if I don't want to take the time to check for plagiarism? You don't have to review tag wiki suggestions. Checking that no content is plagiarized is in the job description; if you don't want to do it right... there are plenty of other things you can do. You can always just skip tag wiki suggestions.

What if a reviewer becomes disgruntled and leaves/stops reviewing? As with any change, there will be people who are angry. Some people seemingly like plagiarism and think it's okay. It's not, we established that in the previous post.

Given that, we should be okay with alienating a few reviewers. We're not starved of reviewers for suggested edits on Stack Overflow; we don't need to put up with people approving rule-violating content.

How do we warn reviewers that this is taking place? I do think that we should do everything possible to reduce the shock this has on reviewers that have been happily approving copied content since forever. I'd propose that we do a few things:

  1. Create a featured meta post clearly delineating what is changing and why, along with the new penalty to be imposed upon people not reviewing correctly. Simply featuring this one would work.
  2. Change the guidance offered to reviewers in the Suggested Edits queue to clearly state that they need to check for copied content and reject plagiarism. Something like 'Reject edits that fail to improve the post, make it worse, or copy from another source without attribution', replacing the text currently in the queue, would work.
  3. Add some (bold) text to the sidebar on the tag wiki edit page stating that it is against the rules to copy things from other places without attribution.

I hope that these things, on their own, would be enough to stop plagiarism completely. They almost certainly won't, though, so we need a penalty to go along with it. I'm focusing on the reviewers here; they're supposed to be the filter and they're not doing their job. Reviewers are the problem.

Therefore, let's set a standard that if you find a plagiarized tag wiki or excerpt, meeting the qualifications outlined above, you can flag one of the reviewers' posts detailing what you found. Upon receipt of such a flag, moderators will take action to remove those reviewers from the review queue for x days, where x is a fairly small number at first.

They should also provide a short explanation to the user (this is possible when giving a review ban) detailing exactly what they approved, why it's bad, and linking to either this post or the previous one.

I believe that this is the only way we have to stop this problem.

Thoughts?

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  • 4
    "There must be no attribution to the original source" - What would you say counts as attribution? Does just a link to the original source count if it doesn't clearly show that the post is copied from there? For example, would this count as plagiarism?
    – resueman
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:20
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    @resueman I'm not terribly happy with that edit, but I wouldn't want to impose a ban on those reviewers. I'd want to take the ultra-conservative approach to this - if there's a link to the original source at all, this shouldn't apply. Once we get the blatant plagiarism out of the way, we could tighten this down to require explicit attribution - but let's get the low hanging fruit first, where it's obvious that the reviewers were in the wrong.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:22
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    @NathanOliver That's out of the scope of this request, but if you notice a user repeatedly suggesting plagiarism, it's fair game. Moderators can send a message to the user asking them to stop or impose an edit ban or suspension if necessary. Suggesting these is abuse too, just harder to manage than reviewers.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:45
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    Oh I fully agree going after the reviewers. That is why we have them to make sure bad wiki's are not approved. I personally search key phrases of any new tag wiki to make sure it wasn't copied from somewhere. Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:50
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    OCD me can't deal with this: i.sstatic.net/utyWS.png
    – Pekka
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 15:52
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    Tag wiki are excerpts. They cannot be "stolen", the fair use clause in USA copyright law applies. Plagiarism is something completely different and requires malicious misrepresentation. Not possible either, tag wikis don't have an author name. You can arbitrarily apply the "be nice" demand I suppose. Well, be nice, what you are proposing is rather draconian, isn't it? Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:12
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    Is it just me or does this entire thing read more like an "aggressive" rant to fuel a crusade? Word as "stolen", all the bold text and sentences as "Some people seemingly like plagiarism" read you have a bigger problem with it than needed.
    – PeeHaa
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:12
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    @PeeHaa Just you.
    – Paul Roub
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:14
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    @PeeHaa If we're going to have tag wikis, let's do it right. Maybe I do feel strongly about it - that's because I've been on the front lines and seen just how many of these are stolen from outside sources, and just how many reviewers are oblivious to it.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:15
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    @HansPassant No, it's simply enforcing the rules we've given reviewers and allowed them to ignore for years. To quote Shog9: "Yes, plagiarism is plagiarism [...]. This has been discussed many times over the years and the consensus is that folks on SO do not like plagiarism. [...] Plagiarists in other areas of the site frequently find their posts deleted and their accounts suspended; there's no reason to expect different treatment in wikis."
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:19
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    To add to What if I don't want to take the time to check for plagiarism?: If it’s a proper tag wiki, it’s very unlikely to be plagiarised, as such a wiki should contain information specific to using the tag on SO (in contrast to general information about whatever the tag is about). It is safe to assume that nobody bothers curating such information outside SO. Or with other words: Most plagiarised tag-wikis should be rejected even if the plagiarism is ignored and only the content of the wiki is considered.
    – Wrzlprmft
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:23
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    Voting up. I'm in favor of everything that gets robo-reviewers suspended faster. Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:23
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    @PeeHaa Thank you! I think the biggest issue is that people don't know how to detect it. They don't have a single tool to assist them with this. Rather than assume a worst-case stance from the start, I want to see tools developed to build this foundation.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:37
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    @HansPassant Calling something an excerpt does not automatically make it fall under fair use. Straight up copying significant portions is not fair use even if you're not copying the entirety of something. We can bicker about whether it's plagiarism (which simply requires misrepresentation, not malice) or "merely" copyright infringement, but neither are allowed and SE doesn't want the legal troubles regardless. Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 18:31
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    Repeat offenders should be given suspensions. I also see no way this can happen by accident: if it isn't yours, and isn't attributed, it's plagiarism plain and simple. Dishonesty is unprofessional and has no business here.
    – tchrist
    Commented Mar 7, 2016 at 4:17

6 Answers 6

17

This sounds great! It would be nice if SO would somehow add a feature that googled suggested inputs and automatically flagged anything more than 90% in common with some website as potential plagiarism, but short of that, I think this will do well. Let's do this!

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  • I had actually thought about this when writing my own answer. I don't know how often tag wiki suggestions come off (it feels very common) - but how resource intensive could something like this be? Furthermore, how would we google "suggested inputs" - we'd have to create keywords from the edit, then scrape pages, and then find a match. While I like the idea, I'm not sure how it would be implemented efficiently.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 18:33
17

Detecting and taking action on plagiarism will probably be controversial. I don't have any numbers (Undo, maybe you could find some?) but let's lay out some tips to help reviewers. Chances are, some of them don't detect plagiarism, let alone, they don't know how.

I made some pretty big points in my last post on the subject. They mostly provided tips on how to detect plagiarism. I'd like to find examples of plagiarism, and expand that.

However, let me get to what I'm asking here first. Since detecting plagiarism can be a relatively difficult thing, I'd want a system to try and detect instances of plagiarism.

We have a spam detection system, which is in place to help detect spam/destructive posts. You may have seen this message a few times while reviewing:

This post has been detected as possible spam; please review carefully.

If we can introduce a system that can detect copied content, it would help make a note to reviewers. Something like this:

This post seems to have copied content; please review carefully.

Now the question is, how do we detect this?

The steps in my last post seem to be a good start. We can look for words such as "Source", when they are present inside an edit, especially if they are wrapped with a hyperlink. These are just ideas.

If this were to be implemented, I figure that someone will raise the issue of false positives. I don't see that to be an issue - the false positive does no harm, and will be a bit of a reminder to the reviewer to keep going strong.


Aside from all that, this is good. Once we can establish a series of posts on this, then I think we'll have a great case of enforcement, and I'd love to see this go on.

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    This'd probably work best as its own request. If we want reviewer-bans to be implemented, we need to keep this question focused.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:07
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    @Undo Would it really? I see this as being very relevant to the discussion as large. If we're talking about review bans, then we need to make a base on which to ban, and I think this answer addresses that for the most part.
    – Zizouz212
    Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 16:10
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These slow SEDE queries may help to find plagiarism:

This is a community wiki, so you can add your discoveries to the list.

Potential plagiarisms or copyvios list

Tag              | Edit           | Date       | Proof of plagiarism
---------------- | -------------- | ---------- | -------------------
gnucash          | suggested-edit | Oct 7 '13  | archive.org  

google-buzz      | edit           | Aug 31 '10 | archive.org  

python.net       | creation       | Apr 23 '11 | archive.org  

gnostice-pdf-one | suggested-edit | Mar 4 '15  | archive.org  

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    This SEDE query is designed to provide a powerful, seamless solution that can detect anything that is plagiarism. Commented Jun 18, 2019 at 7:39
  • @AndrewGrimm I had totally forgotten about this post, and I just reached 20k reputation, 2 years later, so I guess it's time for me to look at it. Thank you for the reminder.
    – Cœur
    Commented Jun 18, 2019 at 9:37
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This is one suggestion to assist with copied content in tag wikis. The addition of wiki tag editing within the FAQ Index for Stack Overflow.

There's now a section of the FAQ Index for Stack Overflow that relates to editing tag wikis:
How do I write a good tag wiki? Is it okay to use/copy content published elsewhere?

It's a good idea for both editors and reviewers of tag wikis to check the guidelines of the FAQ Index for Stack Overflow if new to this type of editing or wanting to refresh.

If you find someone copying content, reject the edit .

enter image description here

Within this rejection reasons are links to:

The Redesigned Tags Page - useful to this community specifically
and
How to reference material written by others.

Although this does not serve to "police" tag editing, it assists in educating users about the expectations of writing a good tag wiki.

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The word "plagiarism" here seems rather emotive. Plagiarism means misrepresenting something as your own work. Most of the time, people providing this material are not trying to claim any credit for the content, they are just trying to provide useful information to readers. That might be copying, and it might be wrong, but it's not plagiarism.

That's an important distinction. If people are breaking a rule, we should start with the assumption that they are doing so with good intentions.

(I know there's a school of thought that thinks no-one ever does anything on SO except to earn themselves brownie points. I'm firmly of the belief that most SO contributors don't care a damn about stupid brownie points. They're here because they want to fight ignorance.)

In the context of tag wikis, most of the ones I have seen are just trying to say what the tag is for. If you want to explain what SQL is, what better way to do it than to copy the official description from an official site that defines it? And if you do that, that's certainly fair use that no-one could possibly object to.

Moreover, it's entirely possible that the person copying the content is the person who wrote it in the first place.

So perhaps we're complaining about something else here?

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    I don't know about tag wikis, but in the context of people posting answers to questions, answers are not wikis by default and so the content is clearly being misrepresented as the original work of the author by way of their user card being attached to the answer - regardless of whether they intended it that way. One could argue that a tag wiki is a collaborative work, but edit proposals have user cards attached to them in much the same way so I can see how one might see unattributed copying as plagiarism in that context, too.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 13:56
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    Yes, but it's not like I'm writing an essay or an exam paper where originality is expected. In normal life, if someone asks me how to stop gravy from going lumpy, I can tell them the answer without telling them that I learnt the trick from my mum. Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 13:59
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    So you're saying that this is something other than passing someone else's work off as one's own? How about this and this? I'm not seeing any indication that it's not their work... anywhere. Your gravy example doesn't really work here - you're not going to use the exact words your mom used. When you're copying multiple paragraphs of something you didn't write... you have to attribute it. Anything else reflects poorly on the site.
    – Undo Mod
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 14:53
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    As @MichaelKay stated in his answer there is a thing called fair use which for whatever reason is being ignored here. Does fair use apply to the above text. No idea. IANAL and neither are you. Which is exactly why we cannot judge whether something is allowed to be used.
    – PeeHaa
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 15:55
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    If you want to explain what SQL is – then a tag wiki is the wrong place to do so. Neither is it what tag wikis are for, nor is it a place where anybody will look for this information. The tag wiki for [sql] should be about [sql] not about SQL.
    – Wrzlprmft
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 16:57
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    @PeeHaa Fair Use is irrelevant. Fair Use is a defence against claims of copyright infringement, but plagiarism has little or nothing to do with copyright. Copyright infringement means copying a work that you don't own and aren't licensed to copy; plagiarism means copying a work and falsely giving the impression that you were the original author when in fact you were not. These are completely independent concepts. You can plagiarise a work that's in the public domain or that you're licensed to use, and you can violate copyright despite clearly stating who the author and owner of the work is.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 18:08
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    In that case explain to me where in tag wiki's people claim the work is theirs.
    – PeeHaa
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 18:15
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    @PeeHaa Their name is attached to the content in the edit history, and the result is hosted on Stack Overflow - do you not think a reasonable reader would infer that the editor credited with that revision authored it, and that members of the Stack Overflow community between them authored the finished work? If not, do you similarly believe it should be permissible to copy and paste other people's content without attribution into questions and answers? If you're okay with it in the tag wiki case and not in the Q&A case, what's the difference between the two?
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 18:24
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    If small parts / excerpts are copied into questions / answers / wiki tags yes I am totally fine with that. Also when I see a username attached to something and the result is hosted on Stack Overflow I don't think anything of ownership. I think that's the person who put in there and that's it. Editing things like this because "plagiarism" is next level madness imo.
    – PeeHaa
    Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 18:26
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    Absolutely. Editing the copied content to make it look as if it wasn't copied certainly doesn't remove any culpability that exists, it only compounds it. Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 21:01
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    Perhaps I should put something in my profile that says: "I aim to answer your questions. I do not claim that my answers are original. I got most of my ideas from someone else, and when I answer your question I don't worry about where I originally learnt the answer. I'm trying to help you, not to earn brownie points for originality". Commented Mar 6, 2016 at 21:05
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    Yeah I'd much rather the content be simply quoted with attribution, or removed completely, than have someone try to weasel their way out of it after the fact. There have been even more egregious instances of someone copying and pasting entire paragraphs and swapping 3 or 4 keywords to get around supposed automated plagiarism detection mechanisms - and we don't give those leeway, either.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 7, 2016 at 4:06
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    No one ever said anything about brownie points. Originality is not a bonus, it's a given. If the vast majority of contributions on Stack Overflow were to be unoriginal then it might as well be a feed aggregator, not a Q&A site.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 7, 2016 at 4:08
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    I disagree absolutely. The objective in StackOverflow is to answer the question and state the facts, not to demonstrate original thought. (It's not quite as bad as Wikipedia, where original thought is banned, but it gets close: people demonstrating too much original thought quickly get put down for writing stuff that's "opinion-based".) Commented Mar 8, 2016 at 9:01
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    We're talking about original writing, not original thought. You can totally express a well-known idea using your own words. Original research as Wikipedia alludes to is the latter, not the former. And while we're at it, Wikipedia's policies on plagiarism are very similar to ours: if you do copy text word for word, quote it and cite your sources.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 9, 2016 at 6:29
-4

Thanks to BoltClock for his key comment:

We're talking about original writing, not original thought.

This is obvious why the topic has raised up.

But, I do completely agree with Michael Kay, as I am one of this project's victims.

I think defining PHP as:

PHP is a widely-used open source general-purpose scripting language that is especially suited for web development and can be embedded into HTML.

As the official documentation says, is not plagiarism. It is just sort of referencing to the main source of the information (the documentation), because that best describes what PHP is.

Notes:

  • Any considerable change on the definition may lead to unwanted fundamental changes in meaning or even intent.

  • All the time we use definitions in our life, without referencing them, and I believe that is not plagiarism.

  • Forcing editors to make intended changes, probably may lead them to behave like this:

    • going to the documentation
    • copying the definition from the original source
    • making some mad changes, so that a simple googling no longer detects something bad!
    • posting them as an edit

Thanks for your time and notice.

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    That's not actually a useful wiki excerpt anyway; it doesn't give any particular guidance on when to use the tag; it's the moral equivalent of "[email] is about electronic mail protocols". (I'm not entirely convinced any language tags actually need excerpts, except the ones that can be confused with each other, like [javascript] and [java], but if you're going to try to argue for plagiarism being fine and cool, at least come up with an example that is inarguably good, rather than one that can easily be considered pretty lousy.) Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 8:20
  • Is C is a general-purpose computer programming language used for operating systems, libraries, games and other high performance work. It is clearly distinct from C++. useful wiki excerpt then? or even r, a free, open-source programming language and software environment for statistical computing, bioinformatics, and graphics.? Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 8:42
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    Those are borderline; the first, obviously, attempts to distinguish two fairly similar languages (and this is unfortunately necessary, as a fair few [c] [c++] questions still get asked in various degrees of muddle); the second is more dubious, but R is sufficiently quirky I'd give it a bye. That's not to say I would write either of those excerpts, but if I did not have anything specific to replace them with, or any specific flaw, trying to remove them is an exercise in futility. So neither of those is a shining example of all that is right and good about tags, just not bad enough to erase. Commented Mar 6, 2017 at 8:59

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