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Relevant: When to burninate

Before you start doing anything, put a little bit of thought into the request: Does this tag even need to be burninated?

[...]

  • Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

  • Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

  • Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

  • Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

Tiphat @rene (indicating this is unfinished business): Burnination requests

Suggestion: issuers of s should fill in these four points.

A side note: in my opinion, s should also have some fixed title format to stimulate dispassionate rational discussion, and not to garner emotionally charged upvotes.

Relevant motivation: recent discussion about / initiated by non-experts

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    Nowadays it's far more important for burnination requests to have a witty title than to validate these four points I'm afraid... Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 10:35
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    I have written some guidance for proper burnination requests here.
    – rene
    Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 11:25
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    I've seen too many burnination requests that rely primarily on the tag not having any followers as the reason. I think a template or at least an easily found FAQ article describing a basic pattern for the request would be good.
    – slugster
    Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 11:41
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    @Magisch - do you know Farsi, do you have experience in I18N and NLP? Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:09
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    @Magisch, since we're treading in off-topic territory (regarding this question), I have to point out that your first burnination request currently stands at -3, and that you appear to be ignoring this answer, which indicates that at least the Overmeta thinks these tags should stay. So, I would take your these basic things are sufficient to get those tags burninated declaration with a grain of salt or four. Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:21
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    @Magisch, community response in this case is largely irrelevant. You lost me there, sorry. Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:24
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    @FrédéricHamidi Do you think then that the rules (which have a high consensus and are clear in this case) are debateable?
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:24
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    @Magisch, of course they are. That's the only reason why this site exists. "Rules" are actually challenged here and do change from time to time. Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:25
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    @FrédéricHamidi So then, challenge the burnination rules and change them. Until then, they exist and should be applied. Failing a motion to change burnination rules, those two should proceed.
    – Magisch
    Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:26
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    @Magisch I think the point of this question is to raise a discussion about the burnination criteria...
    – miradulo
    Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 14:28
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    @Magisch - this post is about following the rules and adhering to a specific format. Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 15:02
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    @Magisch I see where you'er coming from, but I would like to point out a quote from Shog's "When to Burninate" answer: "If, after discussion, there is widespread agreement that a tag really does need to be burned, then..." It's not a case of if it definitely fits the criteria it goes but also of does the community agree this is a problem tag and needs to go? So if the community does not agree with your burninate request... Don't burninate. Community response is the entire point of bringing the request to Meta in the first place and therefore not "irrelevant."
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 3, 2016 at 16:06
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    Burninate requests are very mundane all-business no-play type things. We use puns in the titles to draw in other people who might otherwise pay no attention, so I'm highly against anything that says I can't use a pun in the title as it would drastically reduce the number of users who view and vote on such requests. That said, a lot of burninate requests are severely lacking in actual reasoning, statistics, and research effort, which is something that I would like to see addressed.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 2:52
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    Guidelines for the use of mandatory burninate puns: Any burninate request shall be posted in unison with a pun. A burninate pun shall be formed so that the answer to each of the requirements listed below is positive. - Does the pun fill up the whole headline of the request, instead of something more meaningful? - Does the pun contain wordplay involving the burninate-request tag? - Does the pun make you cringe at the cheap, poor humour? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then the pun is considered ill-formed for a burninate-request and the behavior of the community is undefined.
    – Lundin
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 12:18
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    "not to garner emotionally charged upvotes" - the titles are supposed to make you laugh, not turn you into a lynch mob. Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 3:12

2 Answers 2

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I feel having a sort of "template" could be an idea, but what's most important is that burninate requests really outline what led the OP to believe the tag needs to go.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were plenty of cases where a tag didn't quite fit under the guidelines you list, but still happens to be a bad tag that needs to be burninated.

All I feel a request needs is justification, reasoning that the tag is bad:

I feel the [tagname] tag needs to be burninated. It has X questions and many of them are off-topic/misusing the tag/etc. I have also found that the tag {is ambiguous/adds nothing to the post/is a meta-tag/etc.} and is not a good tag on the site. {Insert possible other findings showing the tag is bad and needs to go.}

Granted, that's just a generic idea, but it does something that a number of requests I've seen don't at first: Gives real reasons the OP feels the tag should go. Yes, my generic example uses criteria given in When to burninate, but the OP could have found some other criteria not on that list and used that as a motivator for getting rid of the tag.

The important thing should be the OP of the request showing us why the tag should go, and not just saying "it's bad cause it's a bad tag." This could potentially be "encouraged" through the tag wiki excerpt, or (if the team feels this is a big enough issue, I certainly don't think it's that bad) with an informational pop-up message when you select the "burninate" tag. Otherwise, we can simply request this information in the comments, and clean the comments up when the post has been updated.

The OP should also take time to consider alternative fixes for the tag: Synonyms that can be made, if the tag simply needs cleaned up, if the wiki and excerpt could be edited to make the point of the tag clearer (usually in combination with a clean up), if splitting the tag into two or more better-targetted tags, etc. However, if the OP fails to make these considerations, other users can at least suggest this in an answer, along with their reasoning for the alternative. This particular point doesn't have to fall solely on the OP, but it would be most beneficial if the OP considers these options and even possibly mentions why they wouldn't work.

If we request a feature that would "fix a problem" according to the requester, we usually ask for proof of the problem to begin with. This shows us that the effort for the "fix" would be worth it, and not just a waste of time. Why should burnination requests be different?

As for titles having a specific format, they already have a sort of "unofficial" one. Puns have been the norm for burninate requests for a bit, and if a request is posted without a pun, suggestions and edits are made to correct this.

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    Alternatives should IMHO also be considered - synonyms, wiki-editing, splitting/clarification. Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 17:29
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    Sometimes burnination requests are shot down if they don't have a pun in the title.
    – user4639281
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 17:38
  • @TinyGiant I hadn't seen one completely shot down due to lack of pun, but I can believe that.
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 17:45
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Should all burninate-requests follow a template?

Not necessarily, I'll try to explain why.

While all parts are valid and important, there might be some exceptions. If you follow the template and don't allow yourself to make exceptions you might miss many tags that should be burninated, for example most of the method-tags; Tags that describe a very specific part of a very specific language.

These tags describe the post and add a meaningful information to it, but the question is, do we really need them? My recent burninate request might not be fitting the template, but sometimes it's really just a feeling - I tried to explain why I think we shouldn't have this kind of tags although they're meaningful. But their meaning can be achieved using more generic tags. Believe me, you don't want us to have tag for everything in the world.

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    If you don't agree, please explain why.
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 8:41
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    That's ironic, given that you originally voted to close this very question as too broad without explaining why. Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 8:53
  • @FrédéricHamidi Missed the last button (primarily opinion-based). After it was reopened, I wanted to share my opinion. It's indeed ironic. Now we're equal then?
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 8:57
  • @FrédéricHamidi Also note that close-vote differs from downvote since it explains itself.
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 9:02
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    I'll grab the popcorn while both of you keep bickering each other...
    – rene
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 9:05
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    @rene Heaven forbid! I'm just trying to clear my point, I encourage discussions and like to hear other opinions, that's all.
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 9:10
  • Though I still think that comparison between close-vote and downvote is bit petty.
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 9:20
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    While you're right that there may be tags that should be burninated without necessarily meeting all of the points laid out in "When to Burninate" I feel it's still a good idea to make an effort to apply those points to the tags in question. I saw your recent burninate request, and my main issue with it was that it seemed your whole reason for wanting the tag gone was you "felt" it didn't belong here. I'd rather see these requests with more objective measurements in the post, rather than burninate things just because a user feels like it.
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 13:58
  • @Kendra I'm seriously considering them before I make a request. What I'm saying is that we shouldn't stick to these rules 100%, there could be exceptions.
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 14:02
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    I'm not saying to just seriously consider them, but to outline in your post the objective things that you seriously considered that lead you to decide to burn the tag. To me, that was the only real issue with your burninate request- I did agree the tag should go, and with only three questions it was easy to handle. As I said, I also agree that there could be exceptions, but outline why those exceptions are exceptions, what factors make them exceptions.
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 14:04
  • @kendra sure, will do that when I get home. Thanks.
    – Maroun
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 16:14
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    If you haven't, I would read through Shog's linked answer (at the top of the question) as he touches on it being a lot of work to show that a tag should go. I think the way he worded it is better than I could have.
    – Kendra
    Commented Feb 4, 2016 at 18:37
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    @FrédéricHamidi Close Votes are attached to reasons by default; there's no need to include an extra one unless it's a custom Off-Topic vote.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 3:03
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    @TylerH, only when the question is actually closed, i.e. after the five votes have been cast. Whole story: Maroun cast the first close vote. The questioner immediately wondered what was going on (as did I) and asked for explanations, to no avail (the comments were since removed). The question was subsequently closed, then reopened, and then Maroun decided to answer it and asked for explanations on the first downvote he received. So, ironic, yes. Commented Feb 5, 2016 at 9:06
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    @FrédéricHamidi If you can see close votes, then you can see what reason someone picked by clicking on the votes. If it's a custom reason, it'll show up as a comment immediately.
    – TylerH
    Commented Feb 6, 2016 at 20:35

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