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(Note that I wrote a first version of this proposal in SE Meta. Some of the comments there have helped me to write this in-principle-more-appealing second version.)

The problem which I am trying to address here is defined by the following ideas:

  • During the last months, I have been quite active on the voting-to-put-questions-on-hold front (mostly in the tags C#, VB.NET & PHP) and have confirmed that the behaviours of most of these askers follow more or less regular patterns.
  • A big proportion of the aforementioned behaviours are not properly defined by the short-listed reasons. On the other hand, I have also observed that virtually nobody writes a custom reason to put a question on hold (this issue can easily be confirmed by taking a look at the close-votes queue).
  • The number of these off-topic behaviours seems to not be following a decreasing trend. This fact indicates that a relevant proportion of the SO users are not fully aware about the exact rules/expectations of the site, what also implies that the current information system is not as descriptive/clear/intuitive as it should be.

My proposal is to improve the level of detail of the short-listed reasons to put a question on hold. More specifically, I have certain implementation in mind: applying the two-level structure of the off-topic option (i.e., after choosing off-topic in the first list, a second list including all the possible off-topic reasons is shown) to all the other ones (or, at least, to the "unclear what you are asking" option).

It would be a practical (custom reasons are better, but nobody uses them), easy (the aforementioned implementation might be done almost immediately with a low impact on users) and potentially quite helpful (askers with a much clearer picture about why their questions are being put on hold; and on-hold voters able to transmit their impressions more accurately without having to rely on the unappealing custom alternative).

You can see a descriptive enough list of situations which might be benefitted by this proposal in the original SE Meta post.

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  • 1
    Using MSO isn't much of a backdoor to get what you want, you'll just get the exact same arguments you got at MSE. If you want another opinion then keep in mind that the content of that dialog was not primarily designed to close questions. It was crafted to minimize the number of complaints that stream into the SE inbox and to appease the investors in SE that need the free help to keep their untrained low-cost staff productive. You'll have to make do with what is there, it rarely matters what you pick. Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 13:17
  • @HansPassant In MSE, I got involved in various discussions whose results were "it might be interesting if...". This new version summarises these conclusions. Also they put my original version on hold because of being exclusively applicable to SO (and recommended me to write it here). As said, I don't think that this request requires any relevant effort and do consider it a worthy improvement. Also this second version is notably clearer than the previous one. If the community doesn't think like me, this proposal would be ignored (and I would accept it + get a new bunch of downvotes).
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 13:23
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    There are plenty of community members that think like you, although I doubt it is still a majority. They just don't have anything to say about what goes in that dialog, you have to convince the likes of Shog9, Tim Post and Jaydles. They almost never show up on questions like this, much easier than saying "no" explicitly. Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 13:36
  • @HansPassant I see your point. But I am not sure what should do other than writing a clear enough proposal and being ready to answer any question. I only know how to convince with arguments.
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 13:46
  • See also meta.stackexchange.com/q/210314/274165 for the request to allow custom close reasons for other categories in the first place. Commented Nov 30, 2015 at 1:50
  • @NathanTuggy Could you please read what I am proposing before referring to posts against it? I quote "On the other hand, I have also observed that virtually nobody writes a custom reason to put a question on hold" and "It would be a practical (custom reasons are better, but nobody uses them)"
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 30, 2015 at 8:24
  • @varocarbas: I did read what you proposed, and that's not a post against it, either. It's the feature request for something not very clearly called out in here that doesn't yet exist. Commented Nov 30, 2015 at 8:29
  • @NathanTuggy I thought that this was completely clear, but well.... One of the underlying ideas to my proposal is that people voting to put questions on hold rarely use the custom-reason alternative (I also quote: "(this issue can easily be confirmed by taking a look at the close-votes queue)"). Otherwise, there wouldn't be any problem: just choose offtopic (because it would be actually offtopic) and write the reason there. But as far as almost nobody does that the problem remains and not-descriptive-enough reasons continue being given.
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 30, 2015 at 8:32

1 Answer 1

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I don't think more close reasons will work. Here is why.

The majority of the questions that get closed are asked by OP's that didn't study the available guidance anyway. They don't care about what is needed for a good question, all they care for is getting an answer, ASAP, tailored for them. Giving them a more detailed close reason will not all of sudden change them in dutiful citizens, following whatever rules or laws we try to impose of them. This doesn't lead to better questions.

When they do notice the close reason and are just above the reputation needed to ask on meta we will get endless discussions about the correct close reason. Drama I participate in now and then, or assist/organize re-open/re-close actions. This doesn't lead to better questions.

The major problem due to the scale of Stack Overflow is the number of users participating in moderation. There more than enough users with reputation to unleash fierce moderation, including up/down/close/delete voting and flagging. The actual number of users taking part in making this a better place on the internet is too low to counter the stream of low quality stuff.
Having more close reasons makes it inherently more difficult for the close voters to pick the correct reason. Just go over the SOCVR room transcript to find some those debates. I don't fancy handling many more of those discussions.

I had and have high hopes of the algorithms that are in place to route new questions to triage and have them blocked and closed there. Simple and effective. Let's see if that can be scaled.

So instead adding more reasons I propose to get rid of all those reasons. Just one reason: This question doesn't meet the community standards. With a link to a help center page or self help AI system that can be as extensive as we want it to be. If read and understood by a user they should be able to figure out what is wrong with their question. The ones that can't and come unprepared to meta are not ready yet to participate successfully. The users that understand it will ask a meta question while they refer to that said help page. They will be valuable contributors in the end.

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  • Your starting ideas are similar to those on the lines of "poor people want to be poor". Haven't you ever heard/read what some people say about SO outside SO? There is a relevant proportion of users who are almost scared of asking anything. Why? Because of the same reason explaining why most of unmotivated fears occur: ignorance. They certainly want to get a quick answer without doing what is required to get it; but only because they don't know how to do it properly (and the rewards to their mistakes are aggressive attitudes like downvotes/putting-on-hold/sarcasm -> one of my favourites :))...
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:29
  • ... I am sure that if the asker understands perfectly the reason why his question was closed once, he will not repeat the same behaviour. But the default reasons are confusing. And another important issue: the authority of a default message in the site is much higher than the one of a SO user. People getting downvoted/put-on-hold systematically seriously think that they are not doing anything wrong. Another user coming to them and saying "this is wrong" doesn't change such a perception (perhaps right the contrary). Actually, this triggers feeling on the lines of "you aren't better than me".
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:32
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    @varocarbas You presume those people would read what we tell them. From my experience most of them just don't read, their only concern is to get their triva stuff answered or their frickin' homework done. Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:35
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    @verocarbas, real life also has the same rule "ignorance of the Law is not an excuse to break it". Here, at Stack Exchange sites, the tour and the help center are not in any form or shape a Book of Law; stuff is written quite short and objectively. If one has its question down-voted and closed and won't bother to follow the advice given all over the place: Read The Frikin Manual, well, their suffering is of their own making.
    – brasofilo
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:37
  • @πάνταῥεῖ I am not justifying why certain people have certain behaviour; only highlighting that they behave in this way because of lack of understanding. They are certainly not willing to read long and complex instructions and that's why my proposal: the put-on-hold reasons are just a couple of lines long. Something much more likely to be read and understood by anyone (mainly its recipient) than any other thing.
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:37
  • @brasofilo (-> see I was able to write your nick without any error. Perhaps my nick is a bit too complex; you might prefer to copy/paste it in the future) Breaking what law?! SO is about helping and on-hold questions are an in-the-worst-scenario situation which, ideally, shouldn't ever happen. Or do you enjoy putting questions on hold? We are not talking about something objectively right/wrong; we are talking about more or less arbitrary rules which have been proven to be too complex to be properly understood by everyone. The off-topic reasons are not objectively bad, just what SO has decided.
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:42
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    @varocarbas re: There is a relevant proportion of users who are almost scared of asking anything That is good. Asking here should be your last resort, not your starting point.
    – rene
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:44
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    @rene Fear is never the solution. Decisions made on account of a proper understanding ("I know that SO expects something from me. I will go there only when being completely sure that I know enough and will make an extra effort to write a proper post") is the proper way everywhere. SO seen as a place for experts is good; seen as a place where a bunch of know-it-all show an arbitrary and unfair behaviour is not.
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:47
  • @varocarbas Are you stating that closing questions is arbitrary and unfair behavior?
    – rene
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 14:57
  • @rene Clearly not (it was just a message with a few lines... see? Properly understanding might not be as easy as it seems :)). I am saying that the SO rules (and consequently what is considered off-topic/on-topic) come from an arbitrary origin (i.e., what their creators considered that was required to build the site they wanted), not from absolute-good/bad ideas. Not wanting any kind of discussion or not wanting answers consisting in links might be more or less reasonable (not discussing that), but it is something which cannot be seen as overall valid. This was my answer to brasofolio...
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 15:13
  • ... (see? brasofilo, even I can make errors about a nick; it is not a so big deal :) but it might be kind of bothering, don't you think?) who was comparing what happens in SO off-topic questions with the law (which is effectively based on objective good/bad ideas; at least, it should be; and that's why not having a specific knowledge about a given legal issue is never an excuse).
    – user2480047
    Commented Nov 29, 2015 at 15:15

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