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Background

While going through the Suggested Edit review queue about a month ago, I saw several edits from one particular user that all had the same summary: "changes in the form." I found an edit of his that was approved and left a comment for him (using @username since he was in the edit history) and politely asked him to start using more descriptive edit summaries.

His response to my comment was essentially, "if the edit isn't good enough, it will be rejected by the community." He wasn't rude, but I don't think he got the point that if the edits are more than just minor grammar/spelling/formatting fixes, we need a better edit summary that justifies the edit.

Just today, I saw a new edit suggestion from him that still uses the exact same edit summary. Every one of his other edit suggestions that I've looked at still use the same summary as well.

The Question

Is there anything else I can do to convince a user to start writing better edit summaries?

Note

I have read this MSO question: How to deal with editor who leaves no proper summary?, but the responses seem to focus on dealing with individual edits that don't have good summaries. I feel capable of addressing individual edits well enough, but I would like to help this user understand the value of edit summaries and start actually using them.

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    Maybe follow his/her advice? ""if the edit isn't good enough, it will be rejected by the community.""
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:12
  • Maybe convince him to start spending time on Meta? He'll quickly come to see how important those summaries are... (I did!) (Disclaimer: Not a completely serious response.)
    – Kendra
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:15
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    @KevinB The number of MSO posts about robo-reviewers shows that that assumption is often false. I know that I'm not the only person that cares about edit summaries.
    – skrrgwasme
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:16
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    In all seriousness, perhaps link the user here? If discussing the issue here doesn't convince them, nothing likely will. (Minus managing to get him edit banned via rejections- Good luck with that.) Since you said they weren't rude, it might be a case of they don't know about robo-reviewers, so they don't realize that their edit likely won't be rejected by the community, and they therefore don't realize that the summary really does matter.
    – Kendra
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:20
  • @Kendra I'd like to avoid linking to the user because I don't see any need to invoke the Meta Effect. If you think that would help you better understand my concern though, I can.
    – skrrgwasme
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:24
  • I more meant give the user a link here. Then it's their choice if they want to comment on here or just read the discussion about it. But yeah, don't link us to them.
    – Kendra
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:25
  • @Kendra Ah. My mistake.
    – skrrgwasme
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:26
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    The difficulty is in proving to the reviewer that the summaries are important. I don't see much value in edit summaries either, and i do spend quite a bit of time here on meta.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:29
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    @KevinB In some situations, they probably aren't even necessary. But if you make a change as a <2k editor, there's a much better chance of good reviewers approving a good edit if the reason for the edit is explained. If you make an edit and it's not clear why, the reviewers are more likely to reject. ("You" in the general sense here.) I most certainly see the value in them, but that's probably because I am still at <2k rep and therefore need to utilize them. :)
    – Kendra
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:32
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    I can definitely understand that. I completely missed that portion of editing, i didn't get involved with editing or moderation until long after 2k reputation. but... he has a point. If the community isn't rejecting his edits, why should he change what he's doing? if the summaries really are important enough to reject edits over, we need to show why that is the case. I know i would prefer to approve a good edit with a bad summary than to reject it.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:37
  • hm... apparently i did edit quite a bit back then, i looked at the wrong tab. what's the difference between suggestions and revisions? guessing revisions are edits that didn't have to be reviewed.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:42
  • @KevinB Revisions are any edits that are actually applied. So the ones that didn't have to be reviewed + the ones that did and were actually approved. Suggestions are just that- Suggested edits you have made (and their outcome.)
    – Kendra
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 21:53

1 Answer 1

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You're probably not going to like this, but barring any moderator-specific intervention (like a suspension from editing for egregiously bad edits), you're not going to be able to convince anyone to leave an edit summary. Above all, you should be prepared to justify why an edit summary is required in your specific circumstance.

With that, is the edit okay? That's what's immediately apparent to everyone else looking at any content they've touched. What else they've said about the edit is only useful in certain circumstances.

My take on this is pretty simple: the edit isn't the same as the edit summary. Yes, the edit summary provides meaningful context into why the editor made those changes, but by and large, if you can see that the change has been good, there's not a lot of reason to get up in arms about the edit summary.

If the user does happen to make some radical yet acceptable changes to the post though and they don't justify why it's there, then that's worth fussing over. Simply put, they took it upon themselves to make those changes yet didn't bother to justify why they were made, which is the point of those summaries. That is behavior that we don't want to encourage; if someone makes a lot of changes to content, they should be able to justify it.

You don't require an edit summary every time. You really don't. Only when a user has made a lot of substantial and unclear changes to a post should one try to contact them about what they've done.

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    Sounds reasonable to me. Thanks for the input.
    – skrrgwasme
    Commented Nov 18, 2015 at 22:23

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