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I've been contributing heavily to Stack Overflow for the last 2 to 3 years now, mostly in and related tags. I've matured through my contributions and experiences.

Lately, I've been spending my time moderating rather than providing answers (or questions).

I've been:

  • closing what I consider are duplicates (hammer)
  • voting to close homework dumps, typos, unclear or incomplete questions, broad questions, library requests, opinion-based questions
  • voting to delete all the above
  • voting to delete spam, plagiarism, wrong answers, (even fastest gun in the west)

I've been downvoting for those reasons (and more) as well. I routinely run out of votes. When that happens, I've started favoriting bad questions so I can vote on them later. But this just makes the next day worse. I'll obviously never catch up on the bad content. And this is to be expected with current voting limits and the popularity of these tags.

Once I reach this state, however, there's not much else I can do. I'll typically comment why things are bad and what my actions would be, but users have different opinions about what Stack Overflow is or should be, or feel bad for users, or whatever it is, and don't act the way I do. They'll upvote trash, provide answers, etc.

There are a few users that I see eye to eye and who help keep the tag(s) clean. But we live in different time zones or aren't on at the same time. There's a limit to what we can coordinate as well.

What other options do I have? Is this what Stack Overflow expects of me? Once my votes are up for the day, is my job done? Should privileges scale up even more somehow (gold badge, activity, etc.)?

Does Stack Overflow need a campaign to inform its users of its standards (are my standards even the same)?


For example, where I ran out of votes today, this question should be closed for any of number of reasons: typo/syntax (= as a method invocation operator???), too broad (not going to start answering questions about how to invoke methods), no MCVE (not enough details, lacking error).

It should be downvoted as well: unclear, lack of research (the tutorial definitely does not use = to invoke a method), completely not useful (no one will meaningfully search for this problem). Yet people are still defending it and its answers, even high rep users.

I'm not necessarily saying that I don't want to help these users, but I'd simply post a comment explaining the problem and then close/delete.

I have more examples if you need them.

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    This is the big question we're all asking isn't it? How do we get more people to moderate the way we think the site should be moderated. There are a few options, such as additional badges/rep, but incentivizing it has its own set of downsides such as people doing it for the wrong reasons. Giving people more access to it would certainly allow the existing ones doing it to do more, but it doesn't bring in new people to do the job.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 17:56
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    For example, the suggested edits that people post sub 2k simply to gain rep. That does result in a number of good edits, but it also results in a number of users doing it simply for rep, and in a way that isn't very useful (such as only removing "Thanks" and not fixing the rest of the post) but, sub2kers aren't the only ones making bad edits either, it's just that their edits take time away from other users who have to review these edits.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 17:58
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    I feel your pain - my day gets very frustrating after I run out of down- and or close-votes and all I can do is comment and watch society crumble. "I have more examples if you need them" - I don't doubt you for a second!
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:00
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    Someone suggested close-vote chat. I think I'll be spending more time there. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:02
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    Or any chat room with like-minded people - I spend time in Python chat and it's good to be able to drop a [tag:cv-pls] on particularly egregious examples.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:02
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    The quest for more votes for those who want to moderate has so far always been blocked by SE staff with the primary reason that they don't want to burn-out voters. I run out of close votes almost daily as do most of the other reviewers in the chat room I visit regularly. The solution seem to be to get more hands on deck but so far I only managed to get a couple of us a little bit organized. You're welcome in the SOCVR
    – rene
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:03
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    I think I have pretty much everything in common with you guys (meta contributors) when it comes to standards. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:06
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    I'm using my powers to down/close/delete vote more sparingly now. I've noticed that a single appropriate comment will automatically lead to let the community do the right actions for you. You can easily save your voting powers for the edge cases, or obvious crap that needs to go away as soon as possible. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:09
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    I tend to not vote on obvious crap because it's obvious and someone else will take care of it. On the other hand, questions like the one I linked to don't seem bad at first, but they are. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:11
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    I feel your pain - I primarily watched the PHP tag and tried to keep it clean. But with the time I just felt like I was running into a wall. So I slowly changed from camp 1 to camp 4 . And now I don't do anything anymore..
    – Rizier123
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:23
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    @Rizier123 I've tried 4 (see my profile comments), but I can't. I'm still addicted to this site. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:24
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    @MartinJames Ooof, upvotes...two/three a week and not even on new answers or questions. It's when I'm looking for duplicates or help for my own issues and find something exceptional. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 18:39
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    @BoltClock I have considered moderation, but I know very little about some of this site's features and I'd probably abuse my powers as a moderator, I'm a (near-)zero tolerance kind of person. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:21
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    @Robert Since you apparently consider "vampirism" nonconstructive, take a look at the sidebar of this page that is shown to every new user asking a question.
    – user3717023
    Commented Oct 30, 2015 at 0:11
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    Started working on a side-side-side project which might be of help: idownvotedyoubecause.com I'm working on the template and getting it integrated with Jekyll now, so contributing would be as easy as dropping a markdown file in the correct spot.
    – user1228
    Commented Oct 30, 2015 at 12:54

2 Answers 2

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The usual party line on this is something along the lines of:

Rate limiting isn't only in place to prevent abuse, it's also there to prevent burnout...
When you run out of votes for the day; take a break...
It's not good to spend your entire life in front of the screen...
and so on...

This is practical thinking and it makes good sense. No single person can hold back the tide and everyone gets sick of sifting through the crap after a while.


I think the real underlying problem is a fairly common human problem:

In any organization 10% of the people do 90% of the work.

Allowing those users who are already carrying most of the weight, to carry more weight sounds like a reasonable idea at first, but over time, it isn't sustainable. Eventually, burnout creeps in, those that are carrying the community get fed up with sweeping the floors and dumping the trash and we run the risk of loosing some of our most valuable contributors.


Getting back to the point at hand...

You're doing the right thing. We just need a larger portion of our community to pitch in.

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    "In any organization 10% of the people do 90% of the work." is my impression that is more like ~1% of the people doing 100% of the job...
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:03
  • @Braiam perhaps I was being a bit generous, but you get the point.
    – apaul
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:04
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    We just need a larger portion of our community to pitch in Follow-up: How can I motivate them to do that? Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:07
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    @SotiriosDelimanolis Free waffles?
    – apaul
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:08
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    @SotiriosDelimanolis That's the million dollar question... And honestly I'm at a bit of a loss to answer it.
    – apaul
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:08
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    Cupcakes of course :) Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:09
  • @SotiriosDelimanolis I think the best course is likely making an effort to educate users. The more people are aware of the community's core goals the more likely people are to want to help attain them.
    – apaul
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:10
  • It's a difficult balance. You have to somehow get people to want to do it without forcing them to do it. incentivize it without enticing rep farmers. or making it popular for rep farmers but in a way that it can't be abused very easily.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:11
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    There are those of us who are motivated by rep, those motivated by helping people, and those motivated to making the site better. Moderation is typically done by the 3rd group, opposed by those in the 2nd group, and ignored by those in the first group unless it impacts their rep, at which point they oppose it. How can we get people in groups 1 and/or 2 to help with moderation.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:13
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    educate; precisely @apaul34208 , you just hit the nail
    – Just Do It
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:15
  • and then here I am, the only "moderation" i do is in the form of downvoting and closevoting, i never use any of the queues. I prefer to work directly with the questions/askers, the queues feel a bit too... robotish for me.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:17
  • @KevinB I suspect that many users could be moved from rep hunting, to helping, and eventually moderating with the right influences.
    – apaul
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:25
  • @KevinB I also suspect that there may be, more or less, stages of growth for most users. As in; they start out playing the game or needing help; then they start to see the bigger picture and want to "be helpful"; with good role models and guidance, some of the "helpers" may be moved to start actually being helpful and thus start moderating.
    – apaul
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:26
  • @xPeke "educate" that's why i feel doing the moderating outside of the typical moderation queues to be more valuable. You get to interact directly with the users causing problems. You can make constructive comments to help correct the actions. Answer without an explanation? A comment and a downvote can fix that, and possibly prevent the user from doing the same in the future. The same goes for the scenario in this question. I think the comment was left with good intentions, i just think "This question is terrible" could/should have been left off without impacting intent/meaning.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:26
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    Exactly, it's kindof an odd case. We pretty much penalize users for moderating with votes when those votes are on answers, but if we incentivized it with rep the problem would become worse, it's far easier to cast a vote than it is to create a FGITW answer. I don't think pushing more users to the queues would really help the problem either. The questions that aren't being dealt with properly often aren't even being sent to the queues.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 30, 2015 at 15:54
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I like this post, and I believe its admirable how users like you want to keep order in the site(props to you guys), but it seems your standards are carrying your programming expertise as well, I went to check out that example you posted and IMHO your comment is a bit harsh:

This question is terrible. The answer is in their tutorial. The OP doesn't post the error message. It should be closed for any number of reasons. Don't answer questions like these. Vote to close and delete unless they are improved

I took time to read the question, and yes like you said, it's pretty darn obvious whats wrong even for me, a guy who has barely programmed in java. But I gave OP the benefit of the doubt and I went to said user's profile, if you check posted questions, they all are fairly simple, so it's safe to assume OP is learning the language and maybe even programming. It's also a user who is less than a month old in the site.

Being that said, we know even Mr. Skeet had struggles like OP's way back in the day, cause we all have been newbie programmers. So don't be so harsh when you bump into a question that for you it's a piece of cake. I'm not saying some questions shouldn't be closed, but there are better ways to achieve what you want for the tag content. It's not about not down voting or not closing out of empathy, it's about doing the right thing the right way. You can still get your message through, but be a little less aggressive, this just scares new users who at the time might not have something incredibly good to add to the site, but that can obtain potential through the right encouragement.

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    The comment was in fact harsh, possibly even rude, but I do agree that the question should have been quickly closed due to typo/syntax error, and downvotes are justified. There are too many out there that instead post an answer when a question should be closed.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:00
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    I'm fairly confident, without having seen the tutorial, that it didn't suggest the use of = for invoking a method. That's not me being experienced, it's common sense when reading a tutorial. My hope is that the comment isn't read as a criticism of them, but as a criticism of the question. Have I been rough in comments before? Sure. Rude? Eh. If you say so. I don't think so. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:01
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    Because you know the syntax and the language @SotiriosDelimanolis what if OP doesn't know it?
    – Just Do It
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:03
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    My original solution was to just downvote and vote to close. But other users took it upon themselves to pity this user, as you seem to be doing (don't, all the resources are available on the help center to help them post a good question), I have to make it clear that it's not good. That's what I'm getting at with this Meta question. I don't have any other tools after the votes. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:03
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    The op clearly doesn't know the syntax, that's the whole problem. That doesn't make it in any way useful to other users or excuse it from being closed.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:04
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    I understand @KevinB and that's precisely my point, wouldn't be of benefit for all of us(on the long run) here that instead of simply saying "your question is terrible, improve it" Something like "Your question as it stands lacks so and so features, also I notice the error in your question is very minimal, I would encourage you to read/practice the language more"
    – Just Do It
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:07
  • Yes, a more constructive comment would have helped, but... i don't think that's what this questions is asking about..
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:08
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    @KevinB It's related, he wants to impose standards for a better content, and being aggressive and not constructive it's not the way.
    – Just Do It
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:09
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    @xPeke That's what I used to do. Didn't seem to help. I have no evidence for either approach. But after a few hours of cleaning up SO, I have no patience for people that won't help themselves. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:09
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    @xPeke: Basically yes, that asker needs a tutor, someone to force-feed him a tutorial. But that's not what SO is for, those who want to tutor are on the wrong site. Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:49
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    I think you're missing the point I want to get across, it's not about being a programming tutor, its about being a SO "tutor" Obviously if you see its a user that's more than 4ish months old and still "defies" SO's way of work then yeah there's not much that can be done, but If its a new user odds are said user didn't even take the tour @Deduplicator
    – Just Do It
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 19:52
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    So let that be a lesson to take the tour. When I first arrived, I posted a few terrible questions. I mean really bad. One SO user (who actually isn't around any longer) left some pretty harsh comments on my questions. While those comments were NOT appreciated (they were much worse than @Sotirios Delimanolis' comment) they DID teach me to try first, take some more time, and develop the SO frame of mind. It's the firm hand that helps, and if we were to pardon every new user for sloppy mistakes, we'd become overwhelmed in the sloppy mistakes. Be gentle, but firm, and stem the flow.
    – user2535467
    Commented Oct 29, 2015 at 21:23
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    @Deduplicator Trouble is that lots of people don't actually realize that this (looking for a tutor / trying to be a tutor) is actually what they're looking for / attempting to do until after the moderation actions and/or the angry meta post about SO being a bunch of jerks :)
    – Gimby
    Commented Oct 30, 2015 at 9:56
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    A comment I posted elsewhere applies equally to your answer, regarding "we know even Mr. Skeet had struggles like OP's way back in the day": Indeed. I also started pre-internet, when we actually had to research in books (remember those?) and had to put in some actual effort rather than just dumping on other people. These days it should be even easier to learn with the vast quantities of material available. So yes, bad/poorly researched questions that are easily answered from the documentation for whatever language/tool is being used should be downvoted. Commented Oct 30, 2015 at 15:01
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    "This question is terrible." doesn't mean that "this person is terrible". SO's main goal is to create content that will be useful, not to teach programming.
    – user
    Commented Nov 1, 2015 at 14:03

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