-8

I've been posting a significant number of Q&A questions on the main SO site in the previous 6-12 months. For me this format is not only attractive because it allows me to share my knowledge, but also an opportunity to see alternative and possibly better questions.

Since the very first Q&A question I posted, there has been the problem of downvotes to the question. I think that obviously the Q&A question (itself) should be short as "my research" is included in the answer.

I then started to add notes like

Note: This is a Q&A question and therefore intentionally does not show any research effort.

This reduced the amount of downvotes significantly, but especially in the last week I always got 1+ downvote regardless.

In my newest Q&A question, I have written a somewhat long and extensive answer to an IMO short and precise question. @halfer suggested that I not add this remark to the question and edited it out. From my viewpoint, I'd love it if I'd not have to add a remark to any single Q&A question.

I then immediately got one downvote and two close requests because allegedly I'm looking for a book, a library of an off site resource (What?? I'm not that old, my eyes can't be that bad!? I do not look for any of that and IMO this is quite obvious given the question and answer).

Therefore my questions to you (more experienced SO fellows) are:

  • How can I deal with such downvotes?
  • What is the appropriate procedure to follow if the question gets closed due to (allegedly) close votes? In my case, there are two off-topic external resource close votes and one "too broad" one. I can't see why any single one of that would be true. This is quite a specific question!
  • Do you believe there is something structurally wrong with my Q&A question or do you have any suggestion how to improve my Q&As?

Maybe it would be appropriate to show the close-queue reviewer that this is a Q&A question (I'm not sure if this is already implemented).

26
  • 7
    "How can I deal with such downvotes?" You don't. When it comes to Q&As, someone will always be that guy. Life is unfair.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:04
  • 11
    Self-Answering a question does not exempt it from the normal quality standards we hold questions to. The existence of answers should not matter to whether a question is closed, whether by the person who posted the question or anyone else.
    – TZHX
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:08
  • 2
    The second question makes no sense. You can't close a question due to downvotes, unless the downvotes were cast for the same reason given by the close reason, in which case the downvotes aren't really "wrong".
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:14
  • 7
    I'm reading your latest Q&A and yeah... the question is not exactly up to quality standard. As TZHX points out, your question quality should be the same no matter who answers. In general, I try not to look at who posts what on the main site, so looking into your question, I would see it as a VERY thorough answer to a poorly-researched question
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:22
  • 3
    "intentionally does not show any research effort." - I don't understand why this worked.
    – BSMP
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:47
  • 6
    @UliKöhler Which is exactly what they're supposed to be doing. When voting on the question you vote on the quality of the question, not the quality of the answers posted to it. It would be wrong of them to do anything else.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:54
  • 1
    @Uli but we should never look at the poster, but at the post. And as such, your post, in itself, is not up to par. The fact that the answer contains this is NOT enough to justify such a question being sent up.
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:55
  • 1
    you've taken this out of context - I think I was unclear. What I meant was, I don't understand why including a note that your question "intentionally does not show any research effort." would lead to fewer down votes when the down arrow on questions states, "This question does not show research effort...". I would have guessed that including that note would have led to more down votes, not fewer.
    – BSMP
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:58
  • 6
    But for any other iteration of "I know this question is poor quality" the 'because' part never seems to matter. For example, "I'm a new coder", "I'm new to X language", "I'm in a hurry", "I don't know what terms to use to Google this", etc. all attract a pile of down votes. In any case, including your research effort (before you found the answer) in your question, instead of leaving it out, would help you avoid down votes.
    – BSMP
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:35
  • 1
    @Patrice I could not disagree more. What do you expect? Do you actuall expect to write "How do I integrate RDP locking into my setup [1k lines OpenOCD config] with the exact ". Is than non-broad enough for you or do I also need to specify which keyboard layout I use?. Honestly: I post solutions to help people. And doing it like you suggest would not all help people. Just like BSMP (as I understood him in his first post): You are taking the quote out of context. Want to see research? look at my answer. If that's not good enough, write a better answer. [Part 2 follows] Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 23:31
  • 1
    @Patrice Part 2: As I already told someone else, I do not admit in any way or form that I did not put research into it. This is a blatant mis-quote. What I said is "This question intentionally does not show any research effort". Some versions of this note I added also contained the note "If you want to see the research effort, look at my answer". I challenge you to write about the same topic and do it better. Possibly I can learn from that. Until then, please refrain from mis-quoting me. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 23:34
  • 1
    @Patrice Correct me if I'm wrong but from what you wrote I don't think you have the knowledge in this topic to decide that STM32 family is too broad. Indeed, if you read about it, you'll see quite clearly that the RDP protection is the same in every current STM32 product and only OpenOCD requires you to use stm32f1x or stm32f2x for a bunch of different families. That being said, I would be OK with removing this sentence, if anyone can conclusively tell me what the added value for a user or a potential answerer would be. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 23:37
  • 2
    @UliKöhler dude, you ask for people who, you just said yourself, don't get the technical side of your question, to help you with... the technical side of your question. We cannot help you do this. We can help you by repeating (AGAIN) that saying "but the research is in my answer" is POINTLESS and not the way it works. You don't wanna see that point? Fine, there's no reason to keep arguing this. But as long as you keep posting poor-quality questions, they will get downvoted, whether you answer yourself or not.
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 0:17
  • 1
    So, maybe the differnence between many of you and me is that I (pretend to) understand something of the area the question is about, and many of you don't? I'm not sure if this is generalizable, but I think at least in this case this leads me to the conclusion that you can't really say too much about the question itself but only give generic advice that does not help me. Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 0:57
  • 2
    @UliKöhler - more generic advice: how to show research - presumable you ask question because first 2 search results on google/bing for terms you are looking for and 2 most likely links to product documentations did not produce result. I don't see adding couple links+ one-line explanation why it did not work to question as huge burden and it will clearly show your research. If such links (or search for title of the post) immediately give the answer - maybe it is really bad question... Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 3:14

2 Answers 2

13

All questions are to be judged by the same [high] standards. You're asking bad questions and you're somehow surprised when you get downvotes. Getting downvotes when you ask a low quality question is exactly what should be happening. If you don't want to get downvotes then ask quality questions instead.

The fact that you're providing an answer to the question changes nothing about how the question should be evaluated. Readers are expected to evaluate the question as if you're not the one answering it. You should be making your questions good enough that people should still think that they're good questions even looking at them in this light.

You should not be editing meta information, such as explanations of why you're asking a bad question, into the question. The question is where you ask your question, not where you explain why you're asking your question.

21
  • 1
    Maybe you can explain by example what I could do better? Without that unfortunately your answer is of little value to me. The only reason that I can see why this question could be considered not good is that I intentionally did not include "research effort". That is IMO obvious, however, considering that the "research effort" is contained in the answer itself. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:48
  • 1
    @Uli: is there any way, in general, you can transfer the research from the answer to the question? This would give other people the opportunity to respond to it with their own answer in parallel with yours.
    – halfer
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:49
  • 1
    @halfer Yes, actually I believe there is any some of my earlier Q&As (in more active tags) have attracted other people's answers that were simply better than mine (therefore I accepted them and changed my software's code base to adapt them). Specifically speaking, yes, I believe that in fact the OpenOCD question can be answered with a better solution (is there a OCD command that does this all in one command? IDK.). I can assure you that my questions are in no way tailored to the answer, quite the opposite. These are answer to questions I could not find an answer for. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:55
  • 1
    @Servy True, but it does not answer my question: How can I modify the question so it is better or more adherent to the. I can assure you that, if I would find such a question, I'd do my absolute best to answer it (and I have done so numerous times). In fact, I had this (exact!) question, but I did not find any simple explanation either on SO or elsewhere. Therefore, I created both by myself. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:58
  • 4
    @UliKöhler Ask yourself what you'd expect of someone asking such a question, were you to see someone else post it. What information would you expect them to include, what information would you expect them to be able to find in their own research, how would you expect them to describe the problem, the expected behavior, etc, would you feel that the question is appropriately scoped, and not too broad or too specific. All of that should be in the question, even when you're asking it yourself.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:03
  • 1
    @Servy I have done that, not only since this technical question emerged from my need to solve it but also as I tried to write the question so that is general enough for alternate answers. You are only speaking generally and I don't think this helps. Maybe you could address this to the aforementioned example Q&A question specifically -- maybe I can learn a better way of asking Q&A questions from you, who knows? I see no way of doing this when you are only speaking generally with no specifics ,unless I missed them Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:20
  • 1
    @Servy I hope you don't mind me asking but what specific tips have you given? The one thing I can see is the what might other people think of your questions thing - but IMO I have already done that. I understand you have other things to do, but what exactly do you expect from me. Right now I don't have a method of improving my questions, besides BoltClock's and halfer's who are IMO the only specific methods shown here. If there are tons of (I have yet to read the alledged & probably duplicate answer above) answers, would you mind pointing me at a few that show specifics? Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:29
  • 2
    @UliKöhler You can read them again if you missed it the first time. You can read the how to ask page in the help center, look through the FAQ on asking questions, etc. if you're looking for additional information on how to ask a good question. It is of course a very broad topic, and as such can't be given a comprehensive answer in just a comment.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:35
  • 1
    @Servy Thanks for the tip and for your patience. I'm not sure if I stated that clearly, but I have stated multiple times (maybe in comments to other users, not sure off my head) that when applying your methods to my question I can't devise any improvement whatsoever. For example, I'd ask a paid consultant that exact same question in the same way : How can I lock my STM32 with OpenOCD? I need an answer for all STM32 MCUs, not only one subtype. I 100% agree about the broad topic thing and I will read on but so far I have yet to find any method allowing me a specific improvement. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:42
  • 1
    @Servy One thing to add here after reading more meta stuff. When you close and possibly delete the question (which you say, is evaluated separately), you automatically a) prevent other users from posting a better solution and b) (in case of deletion) prevent them from reading it. That does not seem logical to me, so I think questions being evaluated with no relation to an answer makes limited sense. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 22:08
  • 1
    @UliKöhler I've not even mentioned deleting the questions. Apparently the subject matter experts that had been coming across the question felt it merited closure, but even that is simply a signal to you to fix the question so that it can be reopened; something that you seem opposed to actually doing. If one of your self answered question is closed, then odds are that the underlying problem that caused the closure would prevent other answers of value anyway (i.e. if the question is unclear, or too broad, it couldn't really be answered anyway).
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 0:23
  • 1
    @Servy Right, you did not and if I somehow misrepresented that, I'm sorry. I don't completely agree on your question-answer relation, however: From what I see on this thread, it seems like the answer could be a 1000-upvote one while the question does not conform to some quality standard which is (apparently) judged by people without the proper technical knowledge in the very niche area. I tend to believe if an expert would spot a huge problem (e.g. my question is utterly wrong and does not make any sense), he'd comment and I'd fix that. Until then I do not know what to fix, honestly. Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 0:33
  • 1
    @Servy Yes, I basically agree on all of you points. My experience is that such questions tend to end up on some review queue where the fraction of people with specific expertise in an area is rather low. It was a mistake focusing on the downvotes and I think you are right in saying it is OK and does not matter. What I don't want to happen is that in the future someone closes & deletes the question and the answer, making it unavailable for the general public. Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 13:10
  • 1
    @Servy I would not care about the question being closed if the answer would remain available (only in case of deletion of course)... I have read several time on the internet that people had issues with someone deleting questions and answers years later. I do not want that to happen, regardless of the perceived quality of my question by experts and non-experts. Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 13:16
  • 1
    @UliKöhler Then the solution to that is to fix whatever problem have caused your question to be closed, rather than just ignoring them, like I just told you.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 13:18
-15

One strategy you could use is to add the following text as a comment under your question, while you are writing the Q&A pair:

Note: This is a Q&A question and therefore intentionally does not show any research effort. I will write a canonical answer in due course, which I believe will be helpful to readers generally. Once all of the editing is complete, I will remove this message.

This might help discourage some close/downvotes - though who can say? You could add this as a prominent footer into your question, with the intention of later removing it, as long as you actually do remove it. I have lost count of the times posters promise some update in the body of the question, and then forget to do so!

Edited to add an aside: I think the emerging view that the questions should be good enough to stand alone is worth hearing; I had not thought of this myself. Nevertheless, let us remember that the OP is writing helpful Q&A material, and if the Meta response is a terse "your questions are rubbish", he or she may just stop writing them. I don't know the subject area of the question at hand, but it looks useful to me.

25
  • 12
    There's no need to include a "I'm writing an answer" message, since when submitting Q&A style, you write your answer at the same time as the question.
    – CubeJockey
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:19
  • 3
    @Uli your question should stand on its own merits, not that it's only posted so you may post your answer.
    – CubeJockey
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 20:52
  • 1
    @Trobbins Why exactly doesn't it? I can assure you that I had this exact question months before I had found a partial answer. Yet I could not find it anywhere on the internet. When I had finally figured out the answer, I posted both on SO. It has happened before that some expert emerges from the dark and provides a better answer, making all our lives easier ;-) Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:02
  • 1
    @UliKöhler Well, considering that you're saying that you're editing comments into your question to say that it's bad, but it's okay because you posted an answer, makes it pretty clear that you realize full well that it's not a good question, and that it doesn't stand on your own, so you don't need us to explain to you why your questions don't stand on their own.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:07
  • 1
    @halfer Very good point in your latest edit. I'd actually like to confirm that this is (at least partially) the case. On my blog I post stuff which I consider to be too long for SO (more articles and explanations that simple Q&A stuff). Voluntarily or involuntarily, if "the community" (whatever you might define that to be) does not accept my answers because they don't like the questions, I'll post both on my blog. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:11
  • 1
    @Servy Where have I said that I edited comments in my post? I have tried once or twice adding this as a comment. Effect: None, as if I added nothing whatsoever. For me adding this remark to the question is only a method of preventing some IMO unjustified downvotes from happenin. And you are totally and utterly wrong: I do not realize that this is a bad question (as I have commented several times in this thread), but I challenge everyone to come up not only with conclusive evidence that it is bad, but especially a way to improve this question. Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:15
  • 2
    @Uli: perhaps "bad" is the wrong word. What Servy is saying is that the existence of the message you add as an addendum illustrates that you understand the question lacks research (and as you say here, the research is in the answer). My view is that, possibly, the research in the answer can be moved to the question, which would then make it "researched"?
    – halfer
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:18
  • 2
    @UliKöhler Right in this meta question: I then started to add notes like, *Note*: This is a Q&A question and therefore intentionally does not show any research effort." You're explaining why it's okay for you to ask a bad question. You then somehow think that people should therefore not downvote the question despite it being a question that merits downvotes, by your own admission. I've given you lots of advice on how to improve your question. You have not responded to any of it other than to ask for even more information.
    – Servy
    Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:19
  • 1
    @Servy OK, didn't really see that as a comment, but I guess you could define it as that. I do appreciate your efforts, but it does not help me much, because I have yet to see a method that I can apply to the aforementioned example to make better. Example: Remove that 'please give an answer valid for that entire STM32 family' sentence. too specific. There is a technical reason why this sentence is there, but maybe it is bad after all? Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:33
  • 1
    @halfer Interesting point. I do not agree, however, because a 5-screen-page question would a) not help other users find a solution at all and b) would not really allow "adding alternative/improved answers" because they would not "oppose" or "compete to" the answer but to the question itself. I don't think this matches the Q&A scheme, if the only purpose is to artificially improve the answer. The main if not only purpose of me posting stuff to SO (or to my blog) is to help other people shortcut to the solution instead. IMO you're right about 'bad Commented Sep 10, 2015 at 21:38
  • 1
    @halfer Although this answer got many downvotes and the other got many upvotes, due to the lack of specific suggestion what can be objectively improved in my answer I do not see any other way than either doing it with the note or just leaving it off (which would certainly be preferable) and ignoring the downvotes. Besides that, I can only wait until someone feels free to finally not give generic yet unfortunately useless advice and actually tells me what specifically would make them accept the Q&A, ignoring the fact that their expertise is in another area... Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 0:52
  • 1
    @halfer I agree that this is the problem. But I do not really understand why people try to jude question they don't understand, then. Thanks for the tip, however, it does not really help. I have asked this question before, while and after posting the question: The problem i wanted to solve is 100% what I wrote, and this problem is real. Therefore I do not see what can be improved. Sorry if this question is too technical for some people, but this is what you encounter in embedde systems.... Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 12:59
  • 1
    @UliKöhler you realize that I don't, and no one needs expertise in ANY area to realize your question does not SHOW RESEARCH. The "too broad" point that was brought up might not be valid considering the tech involved, but the research point, you cannot defend with "well you guys don't know openOCD", since there is no research in the question (by your own admission). Just adding THAT would make a lot of the complaints about your question here moot
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 13:19
  • 2
    @UliKöhler so you realize on one hand you keep saying people knowing nothing about your issue are the ones closing, turning to the SAME PEOPLE for the specific technical thing you need. Dude, the ACTUAL solution is TO PUT SOME RESEARCH IN. It may make the question long, but so be it. that's what everyone's been saying. THAT's your specific help here : PUT SOME RESEARCH IN YOUR QUESTION. If you don't care for downvotes, don't put some research in, what do you want us to say? We give general because we can't give better, and you keep on pushing back. In a tag with 60 questions, you may be one
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 13:50
  • 2
    @UliKöhler you might not understand "I'm done"... but... I'm done.
    – Patrice
    Commented Sep 11, 2015 at 14:10

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .