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Question

Can a corporation really even be a member of a community like Stack Overflow?

Would they participate in the chat rooms? "Hi, Google, how ya doin' this fine morn?" Can they learn and grow like regular people, or do the discussions have to start over at the shift change? Can we learn their personalities and have meaningful discussions with them?

If so, are there special behavior standards we should hold corporations to, and if not, what should a policy that bans them look like?

Precedence

This is a big place. It wouldn't surprise me to find there are one-off examples of well-behaving corporate members around here. But the big companies are smart enough to let their best people participate as people.

You'll find lots of Stack Exchange employees and even the founders here, but from what I can tell, even Stack Exchange itself doesn't pretend to be a community member (although, amusingly, there are a lot of low-rep users named "stackoverflow" and "stack exchange").

Community

People come to Stack Overflow from all walks of life, from all over the planet, with varying motivations, needs, and viewpoints. Balancing all this is extremely difficult, but overall, a very good job is made of it, but that works because, for the most part, we're all people.

Corporations typically have different sets of motivations, that lead to different behaviors than those exhibited by people.

My motivation for asking this question

This question was originally titled "Use of Stack Overflow as an advertising platform" because that was the behavior that prompted my post. My current question is not really about how to better build consensus around edits, although judging by the feedback on the original version of this and on other questions, I think that may be another necessary discussion (and one that may, in fact, obviate this one) -- it's painfully obvious that Stack Overflow has some consensus issues around edits.

Questionable edit examples

This edit was, IMO, properly rejected -- much questionable reformatting was done, while obvious grammatical errors were overlooked. (Although the tags portion was useful, judging what I've seen before, it probably would not have been rejected as a stand-alone edit.)

The same user has suggested hundreds of edits within the last two weeks. It probably has a higher reject ratio than most users who have suggested hundreds of edits, and many, if not most, of its accepted edits are of fairly low quality. For example, edits such as this one should arguably be rejected, even though the grammatical corrections of "i" to "I" and the paragraph breaks make it a bit better.

Why? Because there are enough other grammatical issues in that question to leave room for 20 additional edits, each arguably providing a minor improvement. That might be the right approach for a code repository, but it seems unlikely it's the best approach for documents designed to be parsed by humans. And that's even before we get to the inevitable edit wars.

Why would they do this?

I'm not an SEO expert, but it certainly gets their logo at the top of questions all over Stack Overflow, with two clicks to their website -- which targets non-programmers.

Is that a problem?

Advertising, per se, is not the issue -- we all come to Stack Overflow with differing motivations and expectations, and this is obviously not the only user which extracts external gains from the platform.

Nonetheless, this user is (so far) an exceptional case, because of the large number of marginal edit suggestions in a concentrated time period, because of the obvious in-your-face advertising motivation, because the edit rejections don't seem to have phased it (although it seems a temporary ban may have), and because the advertising and promotion is arguably primarily directed at non-programmers.

How does this differ from other minor edits?

We should not discourage people from editing when they notice things that really bother them, but OTOH, it's fairly obvious that this particular user is going out of their way to find things to edit. Which is perfectly fine behavior for a picky English major who makes meticulous and accurate high-quality edits (and who might even edit the occasional answer rather than only questions, because he or she is not motivated by having his logo at the top of the page), but maybe not such great behavior when done by uncaring hourly workers as an advertising strategy.

How do I know these marginal edits were done by uncaring hourly workers? Obviously I don't. That's part of the point. I don't know who they were done by, other than that they work for a company which apparently thinks that the entire purpose of a Stack Overflow profile page is to serve advertising to non-programmers, and that the best way to get eyeballs is to have its logo pasted on as many pages as possible.

Is it worth special rules?

I don't know. As ChrisF points out in his answer below, it's certainly not a huge problem yet, and (for example) better editing consensus might take care of any issues in this particular context.

But if my supposition about this user's motivation is correct, then (a) I would expect the quality of the edits to go down, rather than up, once the user hits 2000 points; and (b) I would expect other similarly situated companies to take notice of this wonderful SEO opportunity.

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    Looks good to me... Lighten up. He is improving the site.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:15
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    No, most of the edits are crap. Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:18
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    No, they really are not. They are all improvements. You just don't like them.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:20
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    Really? How is this better than this? There was a lot of potential for improvement there (which was done by somebody else later, but all that was done was a bit of bolding. Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:23
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    A lot of potential improvement remaining does not mean that improvement did not happen. Stop being so demanding of everyone else's time. If you want to make a positive contribution, follow his edits and improve what he misses.
    – GEOCHET
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 17:22
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    Editing to use the wrong formatting is not an improvement, @GEOCHET. If those variable names had been given code formatting that would be one thing, but the edit that Patrick linked just above is not only not an improvement; it's incorrect.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 1:18
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    I think the reason that most of the edits are formatting is that English is probably not their first language. I could be wrong, but I still wouldn't want them editing my posts. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 5:13
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    @GEOCHET you've been commenting in the same nonconstructive way on all recent meta questions about suggested edits. The community consensus is that suggested edits (of <2K rep users) should be substantial. This user's edits are not, and worse: add irrelevant formatting.
    – CodeCaster
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 11:19
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    I don't like the way the title talks about a broad issue, then the body narrows the issue down to suggested edit problem. You could have gone straight to the problem you want to address. If the broader issue is what you really want to talk about, then you shouldn't mention suggested edit in particular.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 11:31
  • The editing was what brought this to my attention, and is a concrete example of the potential problems with corporate accounts. There are certainly other potential problems, as I discuss in the first couple of paragraphs, and this particular user has written several low quality answers as discussed in my previous comment. As I wrote, fixing editing consensus and tools might make corporate users a non-issue, but if we cannot reach consensus on that, there may be a band-aid associated with corporate users we can apply. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 13:23
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    Well, in the US anyway, corporations are people, so why not let them have SO accounts? ;) Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 19:10
  • I think answers like this: stackoverflow.com/questions/31803481/… show that they are really just posting anything to increase their visibility on SO. The text they added to the link to make it look like a real answer is just an introductory paragraph from the manual page they link to. Although some answers they post are OK, it seems that someone in the organisation is being paid per SO post or edit. Commented Aug 16, 2015 at 0:58

1 Answer 1

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I've checked some of their edits and in general they seem poor to OK (not brilliant but OK), there's a lot of unnecessary bolding going on which should have led to some, if not most, of the edits being rejected, but compared to some it's not excessive. They are not adding links to their product - which would be a definite no-no.

However, on balance the edits weren't really worth it so I've given them some time off from suggesting edits.

So, from what I understand your concern is that their name and logo will be appearing on lots of posts. Given the large volume of traffic on Stack Overflow I can't see that this is going to be a big issue. See this answer on Meta Stack Exchange for more on this:

Usernames as Advertising or Spam?

I'm more concerned with the edit reviewers who are approving these borderline edits. People should be more critical when it comes to accepting suggested edits. The edits should make a significant improvement to the post, and inserting random bolding isn't really an improvement. I shall be reviewing the reviews and giving people time off from reviewing where appropriate.

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    I just picked one at random. When I look at the totality of it, there were a lot of possible grammar fixes, but those were ignored, and it just had bolding applied. Never mind that I personally find most of the bolding obnoxious -- there was room for improvement, but it wasn't made. Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 14:39
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    @PatrickMaupin - you're right. At first glance they appear OK, but aren't really. I thought I'd said that in my answer.
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 14:41
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    Yes, you did, and I didn't have my coffee yet. Your comment appeared just as I was doing my edit. Sorry. Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 14:42
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    “The edits should make a significant improvement to the post” – or if they are not exactly significant, they should at least try to solve all/most issues with the post. A lot of those posts have indentation issues etc. that could have easily been fixed as well.
    – poke
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 14:55
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    I can reason that people see the edit, notice there isn't anything inherently wrong with it and then shrug and think "Well the effort's been made and it doesn't get worse, so why not?". I rejected many trivial edits and later when reviewing the outcome, it tended to be 1 nay VS 3 yay. I stopped reviewing for a while partly based on that recurring discrepancy :/
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:08
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    Maybe, in addition to the "spam test" edits, the site could give "real improvement test" edits. Accepted an edit that just bolded a few words? You fail. Commented Aug 13, 2015 at 16:36
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    @PatrickMaupin I have a long-standing feature request for just that kind of audit. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 8:26
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    @Gimby It's for reasons like that I usually just replace someone's edit when a post has clear things to improve. Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 11:51
  • @poke Isn't the current policy to accept all edits that (significantly) improve the post, regardless of whether or not more could be done and regardless of whether or not there are obvious flaws still present? In other words, I thought the policy currently is that edits don't need to be comprehensive.
    – MicroVirus
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 12:10
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    @MicroVirus “accept all edits that (significantly) improve the post” – exactly. And if they are not significantly improving it, then they should be at least somewhat exhaustive.
    – poke
    Commented Aug 14, 2015 at 12:35

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