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It appears I am having the same problem as in The Very Low Quality flag is broken; not a duplicate though, as I am asking about these specific sorts of answers, and also I am not asking to change the flag, but to ask what I should be doing.

So last night I decided to try an experiment, using SEDE to find low quality answers using some secret sauce, which isn't really relevant to this discussion.

Out of 35 flags, I got 19 helpful and 16 declined. Before I want to continue, my metric for following through on flagging is "Would I have recommended deletion if I were in the LQP?" My SEDE query returned many false positives and I reviewed every one myself.

Here are some of the ones that got declined:

Seven out of 16 declines is enough to communicate the point to have this discussion, I think (also, I disagree with my-last-night-self in some of the ones I didn't post). I'm going to be less tired when I run this experiment again (did it at 2 AM last night. Oops), but apparently my human false positive filter wasn't good enough at only 54.2% success. But I don't understand where the cutoff for "it's proper to recommend deletion on these crappy answers but not flag them in the first place".

Or, maybe I shouldn't be recommending deletion on them when I review LQP?

If durron wanted me to address all of his examples specifically, then he should have asked for that, @haveno - I answered the question he asked; if you are not sufficiently entertained, take it up with him. - @Shog9

Yes, I would appreciate specifics on these 7 answers as I think such a discussion would elucidate the issues of the original question.

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    consider quoting text of these "answers" here, to make it easier for readers to see what you're talking about (this will likely reveal that "secret sauce", as it's fairly apparent:)
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 19:47
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    In my opinion, if you see anything worth deleting in the review queue, go ahead and delete. There is no need to keep these low quality answer around.
    – nhahtdh
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 4:07
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    Nearly all of these could be delvoted without objection from e.g. me, but most of them are answers, in the sense of "answering the question in a way someone else can potentially learn from". The sketchiest ones I can see are the reinstalls, as any modern computer user should know perfectly well that reinstalling is always an available (if bad) option. "No explanation" does not equal "no useful content salvageable" on a technical site where simple factual evaluation of the answer is possible. (On e.g. ELL I take a different tack, and knife all answers that don't include explanations.) Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 5:08
  • Related: The Very Low Quality flag is broken
    – bjb568
    Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 15:21
  • What exactly about stackoverflow.com/a/17694116/1774667 is confusing? The answers is saying that they had the same problem the OP had, and they tracked it down to there being a trigger action on the table which was causing the exception to be thrown. They could be wrong, but I'm not sure how it is difficult to understand? Commented Aug 10, 2015 at 18:34

2 Answers 2

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As you requested, a quick run-through of your specific examples:

  • Is VLQ - but not entirely obvious without the benefit of seeing the other answers to the question. It is a factual answer...

  • Is VLQ

  • Is NOT VLQ - may not be particularly helpful when compared to some of the other answers, but does reflect a potential cause of the problem and a valid solution (one reflected in numerous comments but only one other answer).

  • Is NOT VLQ Probably wrong, but hey - even wrong answers can save someone time.

  • Is VLQ

  • Is VLQ

  • Is VLQ

Note that these are my impressions, intentionally written with a minimal amount of analysis; every flag is a judgement call, and my judgement isn't necessarily infallible - use these as an educational tool, not as gospel.

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  • Thanks for the reply! Unfortunately, it doesn't help me learn anything because all five of those ones you agree were VLQ flags and not NAA flags, and yet a moderator did mark them as declined. Which standard should I hold myself to in the future, the one outlined in this answer or the one based on the actual declined flags I received?
    – durron597
    Commented Aug 18, 2015 at 19:10
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    Both - there will be some measure of disagreement, and that's ok. Improve your odds by not raising too many flags in a very short period of time, if you can help it; if someone's flooding the site with crap, that's unavoidable, but if it looks like you're just clogging the queue with old answers that matched a search query some mods will decline all at the first sign of inaccuracy.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 18, 2015 at 19:15
  • Interesting. That seems to be the most important takeaway from this entire adventure. Thanks!
    – durron597
    Commented Aug 18, 2015 at 19:16
  • In that case, it's probably also worth noting that this concern applies regardless of whether the flag ends up in the moderator or Low Quality review queues; quickly swamping either one with older posts will tend to push newer ones out of the way, which is bad news all around - particularly on sites without a lot of active reviewers. As usual, if you're undertaking a large cleanup effort try to coordinate it on meta so that you have the assistance you need.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 18, 2015 at 19:41
  • Well, full disclosure: I decided to work on getting my Marshal badge while simultaneously cleaning up old crappy posts. I was also misled by the fact that I had > 40 (now > 70) flags; in the case of close votes it's often appropriate to use all of them every day, and I thought the same would be true of flags (otherwise why so many?). I'd love to trade most of my flags for more close votes at a 2:1 discount. This is the main reason that comment was the most meaningful takeaway, for me.
    – durron597
    Commented Aug 18, 2015 at 19:55
  • Sure; just keep in mind that 70 flags in an hour is a lot different from 70 flags in a day. One is manageable if reasonably accurate; the other screams "2 pac in da house"
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 18, 2015 at 19:56
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But I don't understand where the cutoff for "it's proper to recommend deletion on these crappy answers but not flag them in the first place".

You're assuming that there's a different cutoff because the flags were declined and yet no one has tracked you down and yelled at you for recommending deletion of similar answers.

However, the system assumes that some people will recommend deletion inappropriately. Hence the imbalance between "delete" and "looks OK" responses needed to complete the task.

The criteria for Very Low Quality are fairly strict, and moderators tend to apply them strictly. Review tends to be a bit more lax - but the system mostly adjusts for this by making it significantly harder to delete than to dispute. It takes overwhelming agreement to delete an answer via review, which seems appropriate.

Note that every answer which goes through review with more Delete reviews than Looks OK reviews triggers a secondary flag that alerts moderators to the potential need for intervention - roughly 1/4 of these do end up eventually deleted by mods or trusted users, thus ensuring odd problems are handled without overkill.

The flag description reads,

This answer has severe formatting or content problems. This answer is unlikely to be salvageable through editing, and might need to be removed.

I would recommend applying those tests strictly for both flagging and reviewing.

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    So "you're trying to answer the question, but your answer doesn't make sense and/or I can't figure out what you're trying to say" (NOT "your answer is wrong"!) isn't VLQ, then?
    – durron597
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 17:52
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    I'm not sure how an answer of a single sentence that amounts to "try giving the toaster a good whack on the side" doesn't have a "severe [...] content problem". If these were the kind of answers we got on a regular basis, this site would be about as useful as a broken toaster. Thus I'm forced to read this answer as "/shrug Sometimes people will disagree with your flags".
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 18:20
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    Perhaps "severe formatting or content problems" could use a clear definition, if there isn't one already.
    – user4639281
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 18:27
  • That isn't a very rigorous test on its own... Can you understand other answers to the same question?
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 18:28
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    If durron wanted me to address all of his examples specifically, then he should have asked for that, @haveno - I answered the question he asked; if you are not sufficiently entertained, take it up with him.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 18:31
  • Yes, I understood the other answers to the same question in all cases. Also, I would appreciate responses to these seven flags if you have time; it's not super important as I know doing so is time consuming but I would value it.
    – durron597
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 19:21
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    When I say "inappropriately", @HaveNoDisplayName, I'm basing that on two years of observation and discussion regarding LQ review, a fair bit of adjustment, and constant feedback from members and moderators here on meta, via flags, etc. Note that every answer which goes through review with more Delete reviews than Looks OK reviews triggers a secondary flag that alerts moderators to the potential need for intervention - roughly 1/4 of these do end up eventually deleted by mods or trusted users, thus ensuring odd problems are handled without overkill.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 20:08
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    Working on house projects right now, @durron597, but if I get time I'll take a closer look.
    – Shog9
    Commented Aug 9, 2015 at 20:08

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