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Quite some time ago, there was a burninate request for on MSE. It was closed as "off-topic," but never migrated here. The tag's wiki rather strongly (i.e. in ALL CAPS) discourages the use of the tag, but that doesn't seem to be stopping people.

The tag is highly ambiguous, being used in at least three different senses just in the first page of questions I looked at (namely database tables, HTML tables, and R data tables). I don't really think it's helpful in its current form.

If we really don't want people to use this tag, we should properly burninate it. And if we do, then we should nix the wiki notice.

(Also, there are ~23k 2,112 Open questions in that tag, so manual retagging may be... slow)

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    Maybe the request was [table]d.
    – rgettman
    Jul 20, 2015 at 23:51
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    it seems s[table] Jul 21, 2015 at 1:40
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    Do we want to create more specific tags to retag things to? Like database-table or html-table. (ha ha. Those tags already exist.) I'm thinking we should not retag to those because they're pretty bad, too.
    – jpmc26
    Jul 21, 2015 at 3:43
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    @jpmc26 history has demonstrated that [html-*] tags are undesirable and often misused (famous [div] and [a] comes to mind).
    – Braiam
    Jul 21, 2015 at 11:32
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    Well, I am comfor[table] to say this: if the [table] is igni[table], it surely is detona[table] and can explode into uncoun[table] pieces. [table] is unaccep[table] and its burnination is inevi[table]
    – chiapa
    Jul 21, 2015 at 14:42
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    @chiapa slow clap
    – Braiam
    Jul 21, 2015 at 14:50
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    It seems to me that the crux of the problem is that table, per Wikipedia, requires disambiguation. So, the fundamental question for me is whether such tags have value on SO and throughout the SE network. I think there is plenty of room to expand upon the SE question What makes a good tag?. And specifically, one topic it should address: Should we allow tags that require disambiguation?
    – DavidRR
    Jul 23, 2015 at 12:50

3 Answers 3

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This policy of deleting tags, and making sub-tags that are more specific, is problematic.

The utility of searching for compared to and seems questionable. You can create a search for two tags at once, and SO works fine with it.

One cannot reasonably expect question askers to know about prior to becoming experienced on this website as a matter of practicality. So saying "question askers should use " means "experienced users should with high reliability edit every question containing and to instead contain and ". And that is stupid, because computers can do that better than we can, and because if that is how simple it is, that edit adds zero information.

In my opinion, stating that tags should be context-free -- that a tag should have the same meaning in all contexts -- is an interesting goal, but I don't think it is worth the cost. Unless and until we have auto-filtering of said tags, where when someone enters " " they post a question that actually contains " " this kind of burniation/global search-and-replace is pointless sisyphean noise.

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    I don't understand, are you saying that replacing [table] with anything is pointless or against of removing [table] without replacements?
    – Braiam
    Jul 21, 2015 at 14:18
  • @Braiam Without automated tag replacement, this kind of thing is a bad idea. With automated tag replacement, this kind of thing seems merely pointless. We do not have automated tag replacement. Jul 21, 2015 at 14:35
  • "I am saying that under the current system, replacing html + table with html + html-table seems both pointless" then what you suggest? [table] alone shouldn't be found as only tag on a question.
    – Braiam
    Jul 21, 2015 at 14:37
  • @Braiam I'm sorry, the last sentence in your comment doesn't parse; I do not understand it. Please reword. Please note I reworded my comment to be very explicit, so the sentence fragment you quoted (and the rest of the sentence) is lost to the bit bucket in the sky. Jul 21, 2015 at 14:38
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    Frankly, I don't have a position on this one way or the other. But if we're OK with this tag, then we should change its wiki. It's stupid to have a notice which everyone actively ignores.
    – Kevin
    Jul 21, 2015 at 14:44
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    "[table] alone shouldn't be found as only tag on a question." tags that can't be used as sole tag on questions, aren't allowed. And still my question remains, what you suggest to do with the table tag?
    – Braiam
    Jul 21, 2015 at 14:49
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    @Braiam html-table shouldn't be used as the sole tag on a question either: questions should have one of the "main subjects" of the website on them (try asking a question, it tells you to use such a tag -- basically, a programming language). I fail to see the difference with table. Jul 21, 2015 at 14:51
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    @Braiam Almost every tag on the website is not suitable to being used "on its own" without a language adjacent to it in practice. Stating that table cannot be used in that way is not interesting information. I think we should leave table alone, really: it associated similar problems (up to language), and it is what question-askers reach for when they tag a question. Fix up the tag wiki to cover its myriad of meanings in each language. Jul 21, 2015 at 14:58
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    It sounds like what we need is a way of actually labelling different types of tag, so that the system could refuse to save questions with [table] as the only tag. Anyone fancy writing up a feature request?
    – IMSoP
    Jul 21, 2015 at 15:23
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    @IMSoP that seems over-engineered. Is there a large number of questions that are asked with only table or the like? There is already an expectation that almost every question should have a "programming language" attached, if only language-agnostic. I'm not seeing how this is different. Jul 21, 2015 at 15:30
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    I disagree with your assessment of tags in general. The only practical problem they seem to solve is guiding experts towards questions they can answer. How does table help with that? More in context, how does table as a tag help more than the word "table" appearing in the title? Is there a practical problem I am not seeing?
    – jpmc26
    Jul 21, 2015 at 15:54
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    jpmc raises a very good point: How do you add the combination html+table to your favorite tags list, without also catching questions that contain only one of them?
    – Ben Voigt
    Jul 21, 2015 at 22:27
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    Other context-free tags (listed in descending order of number of questions): arrays, string, multithreading, image, forms. Do we really want tags named c++-arrays, c#-arrays, python-arrays? Or is it OK and even valuable to have certain tags that are by design intended to be combined with other tags when making a query?
    – DavidRR
    Jul 22, 2015 at 19:26
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    @BenVoigt: "How do you add the combination html+table to your favorite tags list, without also catching questions that contain only one of them?" Perhaps this could be the basis for a new feature request. That is, I want my favorites page to contain a table question only if the tag html also appears on the question. Basically, a complex constraint vs. a simple constraint.
    – DavidRR
    Jul 22, 2015 at 19:58
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    Well, I think this comment on the original question puts it best: "It really has nothing to do with searching. It has to do with the purpose of tags. They're there to categorize things into a single topic that you can be an expert on." meta.stackexchange.com/questions/198024/… Jul 23, 2015 at 9:35
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Ugh, such a bad tag. Turn to kindling.

It seems unhelpful to have questions relating to HTML tables, CSS tables and SQL tables anywhere near each other. This is exactly what you'll find when you look at

I'd argue that the topic of HTML tables isn't so specific that it needs a tag of its own. The exists and sees a small amount of (predictably) low-quality questions. I would be surprised if anybody was interested in only answering questions relating to HTML tables, ignoring all the rest of the challenges in HTML. I don't think it's necessary or valuable.

For SQL table-design, there's probably an argument to be made that it could fall under a bigger design tag, but a quick search didn't show any sort of tag of that nature. Better that these questions also drop the tag - the flavour of SQL database is always going to be the most important aspect of the question.

is another tag that seems to be used to no effect. It's wiki indicates that it's for the styling of HTML tables with CSS which seems to be a significant overlap with . Worse, it's ambiguous with the use of display: table, a CSS property value of significant complexity that it seems about 10-20% of the questions on the first page are to do with its use and nothing to do with the styling of HTML tables.

I can't see much good in any of these table tags. is particularly poor, but the rest of the table family seem equally valid to dispose of.

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    I don't see that the table tag is any less useful than these other popular tags (in descending order of number of questions): arrays, string, multithreading, image, forms. What these tags all have income is that each must be combined with a language tag to have any real value.
    – DavidRR
    Jul 22, 2015 at 19:17
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    @DavidRR I respectfully disagree. With perhaps the exception of forms, all those things are topics which transcend languages sufficiently to be valuable alone. A table in HTML, SQL or WPF are so different that the general concept of "a table" doesn't apply. Jul 22, 2015 at 19:35
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    Sure, the table tag is somewhat different in that it can carry different semantics. However, I am arguing that such tags can still be quite useful in forming meaningful queries. Consider that there are currently 6,308 unclosed questions that combine the tags html and table. In my opinion, it is quite natural to form such queries. And I disagree that querying on either of string or arrays by itself is particularly useful.
    – DavidRR
    Jul 22, 2015 at 19:44
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    @DavidRR: string processing algorithms, such as Knuth-Morris-Pratt search, are sufficiently language independent that an expert in these certainly might want to query on string by itself. arrays are ubiquitous but not really that complex, however other data structures such as red-black trees or skip lists again transcend language of implementation and are worthy topics in their own right.
    – Ben Voigt
    Jul 22, 2015 at 20:50
  • @DavidRR one thing is a concept that shares meaning (and possibly implementation) among several languages. Tables on the other hand, depends heavily on the language you are talking about. SQL tables is worlds apart of R tables (their 3 possible meanings). BTW, how you see a question tagged with [sql][create][tables]? Quite the sight, huh?
    – Braiam
    Jul 23, 2015 at 4:43
  • @DavidRR You can be an expert on strings, or arrays or multithreading. The algorithms that apply to these topics are not language-specific. You cannot be an expert on "tables" without qualifying it further. Jul 23, 2015 at 9:43
  • @BenVoigt: Point taken. But wouldn't such data structure and algorithm based questions be a better fit for cs.stackexchange.com ? (I recognize that CS.SE is still in beta. And that some classes of questions can be welcome on more than one site.)
    – DavidRR
    Jul 23, 2015 at 12:18
  • @Braiam: It seems to me that the crux of the problem is that table, per Wikipedia, requires disambiguation. So, the fundamental question for me is whether such tags have value on SO and throughout the SE network. I think there is plenty of room to expand upon the SE question What makes a good tag?. And specifically, one topic it should address: Should we allow tags that require disambiguation? (Also see stack on Wikipedia.)
    – DavidRR
    Jul 23, 2015 at 12:40
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    @DavidRR disambiguate with what? You don't need a tag for each and every single feature you find on any language, so creating [*-table] is off. We should lean towards following the effective and functional approach instead of just organizational, which was the main objective of tags anyways (connect questions with people that can answer them).
    – Braiam
    Jul 23, 2015 at 13:38
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    @Braiam: In the first two sentences of What are tags, and how should I use them?, you'll see that tags have a dual role: 1. Connecting experts with with questions they can answer, and 2. Help you identify questions that are of interest to you. I don't see that role 1 is more important than role 2 (or vice versa).
    – DavidRR
    Jul 23, 2015 at 16:32
  • @DavidRR I assure you that answering questions is more important goal, than just tagging because we like to tag stuff. [table] doesn't allow people to find questions they want to answer more easy, if anything it makes things muddier.
    – Braiam
    Jul 23, 2015 at 16:54
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    @Braiam: Does the arrays tag (by itself) allow people to home in on questions they want to answer? Can anyone be an expert in arrays? Currently, arrays is attached to 142,057 questions.
    – DavidRR
    Jul 23, 2015 at 17:55
  • @DavidRR does arrays means different things in different context, or does it means the same thing? When I create an array, I would expect certain tools to manipulate it (pop and push comes to my head) which would be present on all languages alike. [tables] fails that. That's the point. The only point. And you can cultivate expertise around arrays manipulation (even if it's pseudocode). If arrays failed that point, it would follow the same path as tables.
    – Braiam
    Jul 23, 2015 at 17:59
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    @Braim: Yes, this is one of the key aspects of this question. You essentially agree with this answer by Tragedian that a tag should always be able to unambiguously stand on its own. The answer by Yakk expresses the opposite viewpoint. So, that's where we are. Regarding "cultivating an expertise around arrays": another forum that is perhaps a better fit for such language-agnostic topics is the beta site cs.stackexchange.com .
    – DavidRR
    Jul 23, 2015 at 18:17
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There are a couple of points that would be useful importing from the previous discussion.

Against the use of [tables] along SQL (and any databases context):

We should probably not create database-specific "table" tags, using purely database-table. TBH I expect that the tag would be just noise on most of those questions anyway ("how can I select this from that table?" doesn't need a freaking *table tag) - Charles

Very true. Using any sort of database implies using a "database table" so any sort of table tag related to a database is useless. Just tag it with the database schema you're using and be done with it. – animuson♦

Against the use of [tables] in a R context:

I just looked through a couple of pages of the 'r'+'table' questions and they are all over the place. Some refer to the table() function or the various libraries that deal with tables, but many are about other r data structure (matrix, data frame) that are wrongly called tables in the question. - John Paul

Against the use of [tables] in an HTML context:

There were tidbits in every quote, so I decided not to repeat it again.

Against the use of [tables] itself:

How can you be an expert on "tables" when the term "tables" covers so many different things depending on what type of table you're actually referring to? Sure, you could be an expert on HTML tables and Lua tables, but both of those tables are different things that you can be an expert in, not one. According to the lua-table tag wiki, Lua tables aren't even remotely similar to standard tables and implement associative arrays. – animuson♦

Still others are are about reading or writing an html table or database table in R. Certainly many of these should be re-tagged. As for keeping table vs. breaking it up into dozens of tags - does anyone really just search on table? On its own it means very little. Is making many new tags so bad? – John Paul

It really has nothing to do with searching. It has to do with the purpose of tags. They're there to categorize things into a single topic that you can be an expert on. While tables may be a "single" yet very, very broad topic, it's impossible to be an expert on tables because there are so many different tables that require vastly different knowledge. If table meant the same thing everywhere, then there wouldn't be any problem, but database tables are extremely different from HTML tables, extremely different from Lua tables, and extremely different from Android table layouts. – animuson♦

I think these points are enough to say that [tables] lay down, without replacement of any kind (or at least, none of the currently discussed here). It may be a question that deserve being further categorized using [*-tables] (if there's a library to create tables on Android, for example), but on HTML, R, and databases doesn't merit this kind of arrangement.

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