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I am a conscientious reviewer, and the conduct of some of my fellow reviewers, especially in the suggested edit queue, MAKES MY SOUL BURN WITH FIERY HATRED is sometimes imperfect and could be improved by giving them some gentle pointers.

Currently, the only way I can offer such pointers is to either flag for a mod to talk to them (wasting their time, which is precious) or create publicly visible noise by commenting on one of their posts. I am usually unwilling to do either of these things, even faced with CRASS IDIOCY BY WORTHLESS MORONS WHO DO NOT DESERVE TO EXIST review outcomes that I am certain are wrong and harm the site.

Could we add comments on reviews, visible to all reviewers and notifying all previous reviewers? I would like this feature both so that I can point out in advance issues that I fear incoming reviewers may miss (like plagiarism in tag wiki edits, which makes up 90% of tag wiki edits I review, many of which still get approved), and so that when I see somebody make a bad review decision I can WISH PAINFUL DEATH UPON EVERYONE THEY HAVE EVER LOVED advise them on why I think their choice was incorrect and hopefully help them avoid making the same errors in future.

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    Re your struck out comments: I know that feel bro. I know that feel. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 2:20
  • 17
    @krishna: why shouldn't everyone who is allowed to review be allowed to leave a comment?
    – MikeMB
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 7:43
  • 15
    I like it. A separate comment thread visible only to the review queue won't add noise. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 11:47
  • 46
    @krishna If they can justify their votes, then by definition it's not robo reviewing.
    – Ajedi32
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 13:09
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    What this would be especially useful for is if we stumble upon something that most reviewers are unlikely to notice. I often find some very subtle detail (that most people can't be expected to find) that people are going to miss and give the wrong outcome. In this case I have to watch the item and fix it later on after the wrong review outcome is given.
    – Necreaux
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 13:11
  • 4
    And even not-so-subtle details routinely and predictably get missed, @Necreaux, like tag wiki content being copied and pasted straight from Wikipedia. I'd like to be able to highlight plagiarism to incoming reviewers, not because I think it's unreasonable to expect them to find it, but because - right or wrong aside - the reality we have to deal with is that they probably won't. I imagine you have some pet peeves too - things that are easy to spot but which you know routinely go undetected. Letting us highlight them is at least as valuable as letting us highlight genuine subtleties.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 13:15
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    Yes yes yes yes! Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 13:37
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    Missing this feature was one of the reasons I stopped reviewing.
    – Bergi
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 15:41
  • 7
    I know that feel. Just flagged this question as "Too broad" and it was disputed. Dafuq were the reviewers thinking? stackoverflow.com/questions/31142583/…
    – JAL
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:08
  • 21
    Could we also include the edit suggester in this as well? There are plenty of times I want to say something to suggester but the only way to do it is if the edit gets approved then you can comment on the question. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:11
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    What would be nice is if the reject votes and reasons are shown above the suggested edit, instead of having to select reject to see others reasons if there are any.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:26
  • 2
    Clearly strikethrough will have to be enabled for such comments so you can t̶e̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶s̶e̶ ̶i̶d̶i̶o̶t̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶u̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶h̶e̶a̶d̶s̶ ̶o̶u̶t̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶*̶*̶*̶*̶*̶ give reviewers better guidance. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 19:17
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    @Jan: not the actual votes, but the comments themselves should be shown above the review. If someone claims that an edit introduces plagiarism, I need to know about this before giving my vote. If it is substantial then [reject] is the clear consequence.
    – Bergi
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 2:54
  • 4
    This feature needs to be added. Just like for @Bergi this was one of the prime reasons I stopped reviewing. For example if I review an edit and find a case of plagiarism I have no way to tell other reviewers about this until the edit has already been approved. If we could comment on reviews we could share information about problems which may not be as easily detected - like a clever case of plagiarism - or at least explain to a misguided reviewer the error of their ways. If robo reviewers get told every second review that they are doing something wrong that would certainly discourage them. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 8:05
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    All discourse around voting has the potential to create bias, @Jan, but we usually accept that as the price of letting voters be better informed. We don't for instance (on Stack Exchange or in real life) discourage people from discussing elections out of the fear that they might bias others. Your compromise of requiring users to vote and THEN showing them comments certainly manages to serve both ideals, but does so at the cost of being kind of irritating; I'm not sure if many people care about bias enough to go for it.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 8:23

4 Answers 4

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This would be a great addition IMO. As someone who is just starting to review content on the site, I'd welcome it. Letting others critique and guide new reviewers on the correct way to go about reviewing content would be great for the site.

At the moment it feels like a free for all with no way to correct each other and help educate. It would potentially reduce the number of discussions on meta SO as to why an edit was made. That conversation can be had behind the scenes in the review comments for that post.

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    I also think this would reduce the amount of new people coming to meta to ask questions about if they made the right call and how they should be reviewing. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 15:22
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    I agree that it would be a good feature. But I have a rebuttal: those meta questions about why edits are done do teach lessons to people outside of the review queue as well; such as myself, I do not feel confident enough yet to take on reviews. It is meta that slowly helps me to grasp how, when and why to use the site's voting features and gives me the bigger picture of how reviewing is to be done. If all that is discussed outside of meta, it's a lesson lost to me.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 13:07
  • 2
    I'm thinking of something like this: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/298364/… -- we still may have the meta thread, but in addition, we can talk to the editor who is creating the problem and ask them directly to stop doing what they're doing. While we're there, we can ping the two who approved the bad edit and get them in on the conversation too. Like a community. Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 15:40
18

I like the idea. It would be a good tool for guiding new reviewers, and enable others to ask someone for their reasoning without starting a Meta topic about it.

Rather than comments, how about an embedded chat? It could be archived as flat HTML in line with the edit record after a certain time of no activity. This way, one could ping other users to join a discussion, if necessary. The chat instance could be lazy-created, if the tab said "Start Discussion" until the first person initiates it.

Here's a mockup of a close vote, with a new "Discussion" tab.

mockup

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    Photoshop CS4 text tool could also use am inlyne sepll cheker, but that's probably not germane here. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 2:27
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    I don't think this needs to be live medium. If someone wants to discuss or has further questions, any comment discussion can be moved to chat. This new feature is much more important for leaving a notice to future reviewers about some non-obvious but grave reasons to reject/approve
    – Bergi
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 2:49
  • 2
    I think guiding new/sloppy reviewers would be the greater use case for this than discussing a detail of the review, and in that case the chat is a more open communication avenue than comments. The two are basically the same, considering that comments live-update. The difference is (other than the subjective "openness"), in comments I can only refer to other people who have commented, whereas I can ping anyone from chat. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 2:54
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    Hm, but I guess for educating people a global, static chat would be better, instead of one including only the 5 specific reviewers (some of which might not have any interest in a discussion). Maybe it could be combined.
    – Bergi
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 2:58
  • A traditional chat room makes sense for a general "Reviewers 101" type of thing, but that has the distinct disadvantage of requiring the reviewer in need of educating to seek the chat out. Placing chat, or comments, inline brings the education to where those in need of it are already at. Whether it is comments or chat inline with the review, it's supposed to be for the 5 people who are dealing with the review. To me, the only real question is whether a chat or a comment thread is the best medium. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 20:03
4

While I really like the spirit of this idea, I think it has some practical limitations.

  1. If I make a review (good or bad) and leave a comment on it after the fact, I'm unlikely to go back and read it.

  2. If I am a WORTHLESS CRASS IDIOTIC MORON misguided reviewer, I'm unlikely to read some extra comments arguing the minutia of some random review

  3. I'm very uninterested in having a serious discussion about a tiny review. It's just not worth the effort 99% of the time.

So if we end up making this change we would need to address those issues.

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    Despite the rage I vented in the first post, I genuinely think you'd be surprised by how well even apparent imbeciles can take a word of well-explained advice. And that's where much of the value of this idea is, in my mind - not in having some lengthy debate over the merits of a particular review, but in being able to say "Hey, you're causing harm by doing things [this way], you should do [other thing] instead" to the people who are just getting things horribly wrong, before they go and perpetuate their horrible wrongness across hundreds of reviews.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 22:09
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    To expand on the previous comment, Usually those doing the wrong will wake up when they know that someone is watching. Simply letting someone know that their actions are seen by others can be enough to prevent future incidents.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 22:22
  • 2
    If the comments were tied into the notifications that would help so robo-reviewers who wouldn't come back and check their review outcomes will get an annoying notification that people are less then happy with their review style...
    – user692942
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 12:10
  • 4
    If you're so disinterested in discussing reviews, why are you performing reviews at all? Reviews are a vital part of SO, I think. It's one of many things in place to help ensure that everything here is of high quality and consistently useful for everyone who visits, as opposed to all those other websites where you go to have questions answered. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 14:38
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    @ArtOfWarfare Im not disinterested in the reviews, I'm disinterested in have a debate on potentially every review I do. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 14:57
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    I really doubt there would be a debate on every review. It would happen occasionally, when a review decision is less straightforward than normal. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 16:21
  • @ArtOfWarfare Occasionally is more than I would like. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 16:23
  • 4
    If you're disinterested in having a discussion... don't comment? Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 16:54
  • @MikeMcCaughan The point is I dont want other people starting a discussion with me, or there already being a pre-existing discussion. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 18:14
  • This post has received more upvotes than the post above it... Just more downvotes, too. Commented Sep 3, 2015 at 18:07
  • If you're disinterested in having your reviews reviewed then you probably shouldn't be reviewing. Commented Jan 22, 2019 at 17:14
-18

tl;dr; Feature would be marginally useful. Adding additional systems increases labour required, and increases potential of missed information. If implemented, people better ignore it, decreasing usefulness further.


Mr. Unpopular here.

I think this feature would only marginally useful.

In the majority of situations, we already have a system where we can discuss what's wrong with the reviewed item. That is: The regular comment system. This has an additional use, in that the original author can read that comment and adjust their post if needed. In the case of a suggested edit you can @mention the person that made the suggested edit. A good reviewer will read that comment, even though they are not mentioned directly.

If you notice blatant plagiarism or a similar serious problem with information that is not visible in the review screen, and you find that you cannot leave a comment because it is a tag wiki, I would suggest using the "Reject and Edit" option. That will deal with the problem. For other review queues you can usually leave a comment and mention the person. Others will see that.

The rest of the use of the suggested system would be:

  • Bashing others "because they robo-review", because they dared to give a different verdict than the person leaving the comment. We review based on a vague description of what is good and bad. Some things are objectively bad, and everyone should mark them as bad (e.g. spam). Some things are objectively good. Then there is a gray area where people give it their best shot. There is little reason to convince a single reviewer to judge a review differently. If you notice a larger group of people judge a type of review wrongly (in your point of view) I think it's better to bring it up on meta.
  • Friendly reminder that you reviewed the item differently than the other person. Great. Welcome to Earth. We bash in each other's heads using anything from bricks to spoken words because our world views are different. A review queue is no different. A random person telling you that you should review differently will not work in most cases. In the best case it is ignored, in some cases it will sway someone to alter their opinion, and in the worst cases people get annoyed and stop reviewing, or start posting meta posts about user A harassing them in the hidden review comments about "doing it all wrong". At least when someone brings up something on meta now, everyone gets a say.
  • If the reviewed item is so controversial that it would receive a lengthy chat/comment chain, then it's an edge-case. In case of a suggested edit default to rejecting the edit. In case of a question, default to closing it until it is improved to a point where it is not an edge-case anymore.
  • If actual robo-reviewing is observed, flagging for moderator attention is the right step. A chat/comment-chain will not help in any way possible.
  • Stating the obvious. Really, some things are obvious. Adding a comment just adds noise.

Adding an additional system would require reviewers to check yet another tab for possible information they should weight in their judgement. The use of another system is marginal, and will usually only add noise. For reviewers, it would be best to not check this system at all, at which point it will only be used for bashing others where others can't see it.

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    The point of the suggestion is to notify reviewers, not editors. You can't @ notify reviewers in comments. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 16:51
  • If you @notify an editor why you think the edit should be rejected, and a reviewer does not read that, what makes you think that that same reviewer will read your @mention in some hidden review-comment system? I've clarified that now.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 16:52
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    1) You can't notify a reviewer that they've made a bad review before they've actually done the review. 2) Comments on a post aren't shown in suggested edit reviews. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 17:01
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    Then that might be a possible improvement. I guess I often click open the question to see what has happened on it.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 17:09
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    Oh, as for your other point. Who are you to decide that someone else made a bad review? Was it actually bad, or did you just happen to differ in opinion? Why didn't you notify a moderator? If it wasn't that serious, is it serious enough to bitch around the other user about it? Or worse, have some kind of utterless pointless argument about it? Is this argument worth it?
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 17:49
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    Who am I to decide that somebody has written a bad answer? And yet I can downvote answers that I think are crappy and leave comments saying as much. Who am I to decide that somebody has made a bad edit? And yet I can rollback edits and @ ping editors to tell them I think they screwed up. Moderators are busy, which is why regular users are given certain privileges to help moderate the site. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 18:08
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    Yes, but unlike this hidden review comment system, literally everyone can read it, and tell you off if you are pushing something that is not commonly accepted. The suggested system is visible to 6-ish people and a random person that might somehow be able to view reviews. Unlike regular comments it is the ideal and "safe" environment to bully people over something, because almost no-one can tell the person that left the comment otherwise.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 18:14
  • We already have chat, which is "hidden" in the sense that you can invite a user to chat with a private ping, without leaving a comment on one of their posts. Chat would also be an ideal "safe" environment to bully people over something, except that chats are public and stored indefinitely and genuine abuse can be flagged. I don't really see the difference between the two. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 21:08
  • You really have to go out of your way to make a chat room with someone. This system would be an integral part of the review system, with thousands of private comment threads per day. I doubt nearly that amount of private chat rooms are made. Besides this, everyone can drop in into a chatroom, regardless of who it was created for. There is also a public list of chatrooms under chat.stackoverflow
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 22:09
  • Who said anything about private comment threads? The OP proposed making comments visible to reviewers, but never said anything about making them visible only to reviewers. I took it as a given that the comments would be public, just like everything else associated with reviews. That was the entire point of my previous comment about chat. I don't see why quantity matters either; those thousands of reviews per day are already being stored indefinitely for anyone to see. Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 1:04
  • The way I read the question is "to add comments to reviews for reviewers and previous reviewers". That is, to add a new system of comments. That with the notion that OP didn't want to add comments to an other post of the reviewer (because of noise), or wants to raise a flag, makes me believe they want a seperate system, not one that inserts it into the comment thread on the question/answer itself. Besides this, there are no comments for tag wikis.
    – Sumurai8
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 6:52

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