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Feature summary

I would like to suggest adding a Should be Improved by OP/Author option on Triage to address the issues caused by users that don't know when is correct to select the "Should be Improved" option, the effort that is currently wasted when close flags get disputed by minor edits (by other people rather than the OP) and to help reducing the garbage sent to other queues and ultimately from the site.

This feature is not the same as the one asking to rename the "Should be Improved" button.

One of the main points of my request is to clearly differentiate questions that need improvement and can be improved by anyone from those that if not improved by the OP/author can't be answered at all.

By having this differentiation, close flags prompted by this button won't get disputed unless the OP edits the question.

The objective is to effectively close those questions that are posted and then abandoned by the OPs, but that can't be answered because they need to add additional information. Currently they remain open longer than they should (in many cases) because someone edited them to add an arguably "good" edition and as consequence rendering useless all the close flags in place (getting them disputed).

"Implementation" Details

Add Should be Improved by OP/Author option to Triage.

When this option is selected by the majority it will cause the following things:

  • Notify the user he needs to improve his post or it will be closed.
  • Automatically close the question after a grace period. (maybe 3 days? a whole weekend and a bit more?)
  • Edits by users other than the OP won't dispute this "flag"/state.

Benefits

  • Less wasted effort on disputed flags by conflicting edits.
  • Less garbage on other queues, a post that needs additional information by the OP doesn't need to be reviewed by others until it doesn't get added.
  • Less garbage on the site. Questions posted by OP's that don't care to add additional information will be cleaned automatically.
  • Existing confusion about "Should be improved" solved.

Other possible benefits

  • Less questions/discussion on Meta about the "Should be improved" option.

  • Less questions/discussion on Meta about "Disputed flags". I think this is very likely. Almost all my disputed flags were disputed by edits done by other users on questions I reviewed on triage. I am just one person, but I think many people experience the same.

  • If done properly can actually be more friendly for new OPs than the current system. Getting a notification saying, "Your question can not be answered without additional information, if you don't add it before XX it will be automatically closed. You will be able to later re-open the question if you add the required information", could be better received than automatic closing.

Cons

  • Users may wonder what is the difference between "Should be improved" and "Should be Improved by OP". This could be solved with a good help description, or maybe changing the name of "Should be improved" to "Could be improved by others", or some other name.
  • OPs that opened the bad question that got closed by this system may complain here. But they are likely already complaining.

Reasoning behind it

This will make a clear distinction between:

  • Needs improvement (rephrase, etc)
  • Requires additional information (that only the OP can provide) to be a good, answerable question for SO.

Currently many users mark questions as "Should be improved" when they are actually bad questions that should be closed. That happens even after reading the help box for it, since it is not clear:

Should Be Improved for questions where edits by the author or others would result in a question that is clear and answerable

As it has been widely discussed this help is rather misleading and only after reading the many meta discussions you learn that Should be improved is for a limited kind of questions.

Also, even after reading the meta discussions, questions that are marked as Should be improved, for example following these guidelines could go unanswered and be useless for other people if the OP doesn't add the information suggested by the bullet:

Might be missing a few things, but there's enough there to suggest the author could / will fix that if it's pointed out to them politely

Not only that, but currently a lot of effort goes wasted by flags being disputed for minor edits done by people that are trying to improve the question quality, but ultimately are useless because without the additional information the question can't be answered. I, personally, don't edit a question if it is not answerable and needs to be closed, but in many cases users edit questions that should be directly closed, and get everyone else's flag disputed, potentially leaving a lot of garbage on the site.

Other thoughts

  • Instead of closing the question after 3 days, the question could be automatically closed telling the user it got closed because it needs additional information, and once added it can be reopened. However I feel it would be better to have a period of grace.
  • The current "Should be improved" could use a different name. Even now if you change the name to something like "Send to low quality post queue" or so, people would consider more carefully what they are selecting as "Should be Improved".
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    Most people reach 500 reputation without any knowledge on how Triage works. The Help center have no page for Triage. The FAQ index thread on meta does not include it. I just can find this useful thread, but I guess most people miss it. Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 1:10
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    I feel like this should be a dupe, but I'm pretty sure the only posts it's a dupe of are answers, not questions. Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 1:26
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    If a question should be improved but the only person in any position to do that is the OP, then the question falls squarely under Unsalvageable, as there is nothing else the community can do. It's the Should Be Improved and Unsalvageable options that need a better name (or at least a better description).
    – BoltClock
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 2:18
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    @BoltClock - I partially agree with that, because if you follow the guidelines I linked, it says that if minor information that is likely going to be added by the user you should flag as should be improved. I think if the question requires any kind of information from the user, it can't be answered and should be Unsalvageable. But then you get questions that fall into that category, that get edited, many times minor edits, and dispute all the close flags. It is like a deadlock. You don't want to override those flags, because the question is still bad.
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 2:21
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    Indeed - it seems a lot of this is rather hazy. All I know is that on Stack Overflow, OPs are generally not known to deliver (not enough to result in an answerable question anyway).
    – BoltClock
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 2:39

2 Answers 2

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Given the way the flow chart works, the only times a question that's in triage can escape is if a previously unsalvageable question escapes the close vote queue/moderator action or if there's consensus on it being an okay question.

Directly to the point of

Existing confusion about "Should be improved" solved.

I don't see how this could bring anything but confusion. Anyone could stretch the truth and say that any question posted here should be improved by the OP, and they wouldn't be technically wrong. It just wouldn't get anyone any closer to the right action, which would be closure if the question was just that terrible.

I can't get behind this idea. If a question isn't improvable by someone other than the OP, it's better to close it until the OP returns to fix it. That is, if they return at all.

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  • Well I agree with that, but by having flags being disputed by edits, the purpose of "Unsalvageable" gets defeated. And I get your point, although as things are right now, they are being twisted already. Instead of Should be improved by Op, it could be NEEDS to be improved by the OP. Signifying he is the only one that knows what needs to be added.
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 2:45
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    You presume that the OP will come back, which happens a lot rarer than you think. Further, disputed flags only signify that a user disagrees with your actions. I doubt it occurs so often as to cause a major issue, but it can be annoying at times.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 3:18
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    No, I actually presume the OP won't comeback, so in the end the questions will be closed instead of being left open by incorrect "Should be Improved" or disputed flags.
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 3:23
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    @Makoto: A disputed flag also stops whatever the flagged action was in its tracks; attempting to close a question by flagging it, only to have the flag disputed, means that your effort was entirely wasted and nothing at all happened. As far as frequency... well, let's just say that about 3/4 of all my disputed flags come from Triage and I probably get one or two a day that way. Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 5:14
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    @humble.rumble the problem is that nobody in triage seems to know what the buttons do, and the help and description isn't just not helpful but actively misleading.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 6:46
  • @humble.rumble - I see it as a matter of usability. It is obvious the three buttons are really not usable. If you need so much explanation for a feature that will be likely used by a lot of people that you "can train" maybe for two seconds (and that if they read the description) It means the feature is not really usable, and in this context it needs to be. And the Issue is that even when you understand the feature, many times your effort goes wasted by other users actions (for example by editing posts that should be closed)
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 10:52
  • Even if there shouldn't be a new button for this, I think this part, close flags prompted by this button won't get disputed unless the OP edits the question could be added to the existing Unsalvageable button. I think that would fix the problem of non-OP edits causing the flags to get disputed without the potential problems caused by the suggested button.
    – BSMP
    Commented Jun 12, 2015 at 15:33
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I like this proposal a lot. I'm right in the middle of those many users who, guided by the help text, click the Should Be Improved button for entries which in my opinion need more details from the OP. I'm doing minor edits myself, why do I need another queue for that?

And on the other hand, Unsalvagable is such a terrible final wording. For me, it literally means that nothing can conceivably be done to turn this entry around. If this is supposed to be the button to click for questions which need more details from the OP, then it is a very poor choice of words (and feels like "even if the author wanted, he wouldn't be able to edit it towards 'acceptable'"). Maybe it's just me not being a native english speaker, but this button does not look like there's hope for the entry.

So I'm all in for Dzyann's Should Be Improved By Author button with the notification and such, and in addition I'd rename the former Should Be Improved to Needs To Be Polished By Community or something along those lines; and of course reserve Unsalvagable for entries that should be closed and will (probably) stay closed. Dzyann's "delayed auto-close" proposal also helps with those cases that never return to improve their own entries.

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