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I noticed the tag is used for a few unrelated concepts. The main ones that stick out are:

There was no tag wiki for this tag originally, and there are 420 questions at present :(

It fails all the preliminary checks before burnination:

Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

No, the tag is ambiguous and is equally applicable to:

  • branch protection (VCS)
  • access control
  • security measures

Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

Yes and no, the concept can be on or off-topic depending on the context (questions about protection can be about security, general computing, or asked in a programming context).

Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

No, protecting something is a goal, while on-topic questions revolve around specific programming problems / algorithms that are often only circumstantially related to protection.

Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

No, the only common meaning is that it is a process of restricting access to something which, as described above, can involve completely unrelated tasks.

27
  • Added answers to preliminary burnination questions to conform the request with the established protocol - feel free to reword / edit / update as necessary for the discussion. Oct 10, 2022 at 12:58
  • 1
    Rolled back because the last edits deviate from the OP original intention. If you want to make a burnination request start one from scratch.
    – Rubén
    Oct 10, 2022 at 13:57
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    Also those edits make the answers obsolete
    – Rubén
    Oct 10, 2022 at 14:01
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    Folks, given the post has been a burnination request since 2017 and is already scheduled for the evaluation process, reediting it to a retag request is highly problematic. Oct 10, 2022 at 15:09
  • 3
    Agreed. If you lot have a case to make for its renaming or synonymization instead, post a new question (or an answer opposing the burnination, even though we're still months away from it actually taking place) Oct 10, 2022 at 15:16
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    @ZoestandswithUkraine How protection was added to the evaluation process ? / What are the criteria to include a tag in that queue ? Is there a status meta-tag for tags scheduled for the burnination evaluation process? Is "still months away" another way to say in 6-8 weeks?
    – Rubén
    Oct 10, 2022 at 16:36
  • 1
    "still months away" is a way to say "however long it takes to get through all the other tags in the queue". I cannot estimate that accurately, because it depends on participation numbers, which are completely unpredictable at the moment. But in general, more participants means faster burns, which means shorter waiting times for your favorite flamethrower targets:tm: Oct 10, 2022 at 16:43
  • 1
    It doesn't really matter if it's in the question or posted as an answer though. Posting answers in favor of the burn has always been allowed, and in my opinion, that includes the burn criteria if OP doesn't add them. This is with the exception of where there's no attempt to explain why the tag is bad to begin with. This question does, even though it doesn't follow the proper method, which is good enough. But I don't really mind them added to the question either. Oct 14, 2022 at 12:48
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    Also, what difference does it make? If it's added to the question, which any OP can do anyway, you're free to downvote the question and dismantle it in an answer. The other alternative is downvoting the question, an answer, and dismantle the answer in the comments instead, which gets hard to keep track of real fast. The current answer trying to dismantle the criteria answering consist of 5.5k characters including formatting, which is around 9-11 comments depending on how sentences are aligned, which doesn't include the 15 replies to that answer, nor does it include the obligatory Oct 14, 2022 at 12:56
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    additional comments because doing extensive dismantling in comments is hard, and thanks to reduced editing for non-mods, some extra comments may be needed to fill in that gap. I don't particularly see how that's any better Oct 14, 2022 at 12:58
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    If the burnination was at -50, it would've been declined, forcing a new request. Your argument there is irrelevant. Since activity resurfaced, this question has still gained more upvotes than downvotes. All the opposing answers have also been downvoted below net 0. Even if it was added as an answer, you lot have currently failed to convince the general meta core that this burnination is bad. Initial votes wouldn't have helped here when it has still gained more net upvotes than downvotes after being bumped back into activity. That's not because it's "unfair" Oct 14, 2022 at 13:55
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    We're not talking about several tens or even >100 net upvotes here, we're talking about an initial net of 12. That's easy to topple if you make a solid case the meta core agrees with (or when we enter phase 2, the community at large). As evidenced by the failure to do so, your case probably isn't as convincing as you think. But we'll see what happens when phase 2 starts (or what happens in the time leading up to that; a lot can happen in a few months) Oct 14, 2022 at 13:57
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    imagine trying to rule lawyer community-made guidelines
    – Kevin B
    Oct 14, 2022 at 15:15
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    is something you'll have to take up with Bhargav. There's some deleted comments pointing out a dupe along with a request to retag this, which seems to make the retag itself fine as well. The only points you have here regarding the validity of the burn have nothing to do with the burnination process itself. You're welcome to try anyway, but you'd be better off spending your energy on arguments against the burn rather than its past and possible future handling Oct 14, 2022 at 15:20
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    "I'm not asking you to discard all the votes" - never said you did. "That sounds reasonable to me" - because we have no way of proving that all the upvoters also don't side with the burnination. Disregarding their votes prevents those people from saying anything through voting. That is not reasonable Oct 14, 2022 at 15:36

4 Answers 4

-2

Protection is a programmatic concept that can be well defined without ambiguity. After a careful review of the questions in that tag, I felt the the following definition captures the essence of the most questions in that tag. I went ahead and added the following definition:

Tag excerpt:

Protection refers to any process that involves hiding the data or restricting access to the said data, such as "read only access", "write access", "copy access". Use with tags such as [c#], [php], [python], [javascript], [github] when question involves protecting code or memory. Use with [excel], [google-sheets], [sql], [passwords], [pdf] when question involves programmatic protection of data in files. Do NOT use with [data-protection]

Tag wiki:

Protection refers to any process that involves hiding the data or code or restricting access to the said data, such as "view only access" or "edit only access" or "owner level access". Commonly used in

  • Preventing code-write access in github(Branch protection)
  • Preventing read/edits from a document or worksheets(like excel/google-sheets)
  • Accessing password protected pdfs programmatically.
  • Preventing unauthorized access to memory
  • Protecting unauthorized copying of code by obfuscation or access control techniques

There seems to be a overlap with . Whether it should be synonymized to or should the tag still be burninated, or should the tag be left alone, should be determined by the community.

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  • 5
    I don't think that access-control and protection should be synonymized as the first might be used when the issue refers to a file / content / database management systems like systems that relies on user accounts while the later might be used when the issue refers the file format like a password stored in the file.
    – Rubén
    Oct 10, 2022 at 17:57
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    The 1st thing that comes to mind when someone mentions protected is Java.
    – bad_coder
    Oct 14, 2022 at 17:10
-2

The question was added new information claiming it satisfies all the criteria for burnination. Prima facie, it seems no effort is put into this claim.

It fails all the preliminary checks before burnination:

Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? and is it unambiguous?

No, the tag is ambiguous and is equally applicable to:

  • branch protection (VCS)
  • access control
  • security measures

Is branch protection not a security measure? Is access control not a security measure? How is it ambiguous? Using different specific names for the same word doesn't make it ambiguous. We have a specific tag. There does seem to be a overlap with . would indeed be a subdivision of . The former requires a specific management system in place, based on user accounts, while the latter does not. It's important to note that both concepts described here and concepts like , ,,, , , are all subdivisions of . But, why aren't we burning ? Inside , we have a more specific tag . Inside , we have subdivisions like . Just because there are more specific tags available doesn't mean we should burn the parent. Do we burn , because we have subdivisions like ? Do we burn , because we have ? Or Do we burn , because there are many specific tags available. No! Because, there might be concepts, not described by any of the subdivisions. And it helps to categorize all subdivisions in a single parent, making it easy to search. Just because there are more specific subdivisions doesn't make the parent tag ambiguous by itself. Does having names for Nissan or Ferrari make the term "Car" ambiguous?

Is the concept described even on-topic for the site?

Yes and no, the concept can be on or off-topic depending on the context (questions about protection can be about security, general computing, or asked in a programming context).

That's vague. The same argument can be said of any tag. Let's take [python]. "Depending on context", say, The question is about learning python or getting a python book, the question is offtopic. Does that make the concept described, the language tag [python] off topic? Of course not. The real question is: Is the concept offtopic?

Does this definition, feel offtopic?

Protection refers to any process that involves hiding the data or restricting access to the said data, such as "read only access", "write access", "copy access".

Does it at least attract offtopic questions more than other tags? There is zero evidence to suggest that it does.

Does the tag add any meaningful information to the post?

No, protecting something is a goal, while on-topic questions revolve around specific programming problems / algorithms that are often only circumstantially related to protection.

Again, the same thing can be said of any tag, if you add "something is a goal" to it. Making a calculator in is goal. ing something is a goal. Yes, it is. But it adds meaningful information to the tag. That the question is dealing with that syntax and language. Maybe it's not about accomplishing something. Maybe it's about debugging. Maybe it's about the why something is failing to trigger. The questions in isn't necessarily about "protecting something". Sometimes, it's about how to access protected resources. Sometimes, it's about why protection fails in certain circumstances.

Does it mean the same thing in all common contexts?

No, the only common meaning is that it is a process of restricting access to something which, as described above, can involve completely unrelated tasks.

If you read the above answer without the "No", it's clear it means the same thing in all cases, that it is a process of restricting access to something. It means the same thing in all contexts.

Forget the law, The spirit of burnination criteria is this:

Is the tag causing a fairly large amount of harm?

If a particular tag is bringing lots of off-topic posts to the site, then it certainly is harmful.

As said before, there's zero, zilch, null evidence to suggest it brings in any off-topic question. If it did, which it doesn't, the criteria says

If the tag isn't harmful, consider instead a divide and conquer approach to the problem by using one or more of these alternative strategies:

Updating the tag wiki excerpt (an edit can be suggested by anyone, subject to approval) Merging or renaming a tag (which can be handled instantly and painlessly by a moderator) Adding/removing a tag synonym (which can also be handled instantly and painlessly by a moderator)

I've updated the tag wiki in a attempt to make the tag excerpt useful. But it is very strange, that just after updating the wiki, the post was updated, without due diligence to claim, it satisfies all the burnination criteria and that's with the grand-fathered +14 votes, making it easier to pass the +20 criteria, while answers defending it had to start from 0.

Your distaste for a frustrating game shouldn't result in the destruction of otherwise-valid tags

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  • 1
    "Is branch protection not a security measure? Is access control not a security measure?" branch protection is very different from access control. Both in how it's implemented and what the end goal is. Branch protection in VCS is more about controlling the process. Requiring reviewers, adding policies that need to be covered for some work to be added to a branch. It doesn't hide information or assume malicious actors. Mostly consistency and quality control. That's not what access control is - it's about securing a resource to only privileged access.
    – VLAZ
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:15
  • @VLAZ Great. As I already said, there seems to be a "overlap" with "access control", but not that "protection" is access control. Per my definition, Protection refers to any process...hiding the data or restricting access to the said data,...., Branch protection would come under "restricting access, specifically write access", based on certain policies. The definition doesn't assume that there are malicious actors or that protection is only about "hiding data".[1/2]
    – TheMaster
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:40
  • [2/2] Protection can be from malicious actors or bad quality code writes and ultimately it's about protecting the data against different type of negative things threatening the data. The data needs to be safe from malicious actors as well as bad quality writes.
    – TheMaster
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:43
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    A garbage bin and a carpet both stop the floor from being dirty. I wouldn't really say they are both "dirt-protection". If you stretch any definition enough, it can cover disparate concepts. Both a car and a mug are sort of the same. They can roll. They can both hold liquids. But I don't really see how "branch protection" and "access control" are useful to combine in the same tag rather than separate ones.
    – VLAZ
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:45
  • @VLAZ I could say the same. Any definition can be compressed to be specific enough so that it can never cover the same concept. Mazda and Ferrari are different types of cars. You could make that difference and claim a tag is needed for both. Even within the same Car, there are different models of ferrari, you could claim a tag for each model for that difference. Even within the same model, age of the car maybe different. You could claim the tag for each year for the same model. Where do you draw the line? Or rather how do you draw the line, based on what criteria?
    – TheMaster
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:51
  • There's no need to draw a line, we have meta for making the decision.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:53
  • The ultimate criteria is Does it attract offtopic questions? If you think they do, make your case and if it really does attract offtopic questions, more than other tags, I'll have no more case here.
    – TheMaster
    Oct 11, 2022 at 19:56
  • Proof of it attracting off-topic questions isn't one of the 4 requirements of burnination, rather it is simply something that should be taken into account. There is no alternative solution that would make sense in this case given the tag is overly ambiguous and on it's own couldn't be used to ask an on topic question.
    – Kevin B
    Oct 11, 2022 at 20:01
  • For all the talks about similarity, I also notice there is no mention on how the tag is different from [security]. All the concepts you have described seem equally applicable to that tag. Where and why is there line drawn? Can there not be a similar line drawn between different sub-categories of the [protection]?
    – VLAZ
    Oct 11, 2022 at 20:06
  • @VLAZ Security encompasses various tags like [authentication], [authorization], [access-control], [cryptography] and you can't say how each one is different from [security] except that, they define a specific concept inside [security]. Can there not be a similar line drawn between different sub-categories of the [protection]? Yes, there is no question, there can be. But should it be drawn? If so, why? And if we did, should the parent be burninated? To flip the same question, why isn't [security] burninated, when there are so many sub categories present?
    – TheMaster
    Oct 12, 2022 at 8:21
  • Related: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/400126
    – TheMaster
    Oct 12, 2022 at 8:28
  • @TheMaster ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I wouldn't be opposed to breaking up [security]
    – VLAZ
    Oct 12, 2022 at 9:40
  • @VLAZ Would you also vouch for breaking up [authorization] to [oauth] and different types of authorization. Or breaking up [arrays] to [c++-arrays], [java-arrays], [vba-arrays], [python-arrays] as there are specific differences between all of them?
    – TheMaster
    Oct 12, 2022 at 10:11
  • I've never found [arrays] to be a particularly useful tag. The vast majority of times I encounter questions with it, they aren't even about arrays. Usually some basic question about loops or syntax. If not split up, I'd love it to be applied only where it actually matters. Because actual array operations tend to be uniform across languages. Some specifics might differ but swapping elements, or traversing, or sorting will involve the same steps. Described using different code. Protecting a branch and a resource is not the same thing to me.
    – VLAZ
    Oct 12, 2022 at 10:17
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    "they would have created it by now" - this wasn't what I found when looking into this at the question level. Mostly people were lazy and just typed a few key words from their question. If that didn't come up, and the concept was included in the specific tag wikis, they might think a little harder and get someone who could actually help. The last part is key. Tags are for getting help from smes. I didn't see many cases where the protection tag would help with a search. The keyword was almost always located somewhere else already.
    – Barett
    Oct 16, 2022 at 16:14
-2

Despite the the tag wiki content, I don't think that we should stop using / burninate as the "community" decided to clean-up the "hyphenated tags" related to tags like , among others, in favor of using using two or more tags.

As of January 4th, 2022:

  • has 600 questions

  • Searching

    • [excel] protection returns 1584 results
    • [google-sheets] protection returns 618 results.

So potentially there are more questions that might properly use this tag. Just this weekend on the Google Apps Script chat room was mentioned the use of this tag as part of the current curation effort for improving the with with a FAQ.


"should" be used together with

  • and for questions about programming issues protecting a sheet or range when is not being used, i.e. when creating a Google Workspace / Editor add-ons using the Spreadsheet Service (Class SpreadsheetApp).
  • for questions about programming issues protecting a sheet or range using the Google Sheets API. Also the tag of the programming language / runtime should be used.

It should not be [merged / retagged] with / synonymized to because they have separate uses, i.e. could be used for questions about access to resources in file systems like Windows, Mac Os, Google Drive, OneDrive among others but not for protecting a spreadsheet sheet or range or a internal part of other kind of document.

I think that might be used together with tags that corresponds to other spreadsheets like and other documents editors that also handle the protection concept separate from the access-control concept.

Actually and might be used together in questions about the interaction of the "access-control-list" of the file system hosting the document with the protection feature of the document editors.

4
  • 1
    I think you have an argument with the post/keyword count on the 2 tags, excel and google-sheets. However, isn't the word "protection" too broad to be problematic by itself? I like tags that can span multiple languages (like datatype tags int, string, enum) but I'm not convinced "protection" is descriptive enough and specializing the names of tags has been the trend and a safe choice. Besides, I'm suprised that "protection" seem to be a "sheets" things, isn't there lots of stuff that can be "protected"?
    – bad_coder
    Oct 14, 2022 at 17:06
  • @bad_coder Thanks for your comment. Any suggestion about how to properly tag questions about file / sheet/ range protection in spreadsheets using "desktop" formats like Excel (xlsx) and "online" formats like Google Sheets? Could we use the same guidelines for both?
    – Rubén
    Oct 14, 2022 at 17:10
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    That's the problem I'm not an excel/google-sheets SME so I can't evaluate the importance/relevance of the tag. I have no ideas to contribute to this debate (besides some general burnination experience, my 2 cents are in the comment above).
    – bad_coder
    Oct 14, 2022 at 17:18
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    A couple of years ago I "lost a battle" about tagging... what I learned is that here tag naming is more a thing of "consensus" than applying "logic" or following naming rules. On some tags the "consensus" is to keep the tag name, use the the best that you can, and don't worry about taxonomy / vocabulary / terminology correctness. Regarding protection what I'm looking is that it won't be burninanted / blacklisted because I think that it's helpful to use it together with other tags, particularly with spreadsheet related tags, rather than creating new tags.
    – Rubén
    Oct 14, 2022 at 17:25
-7

I feel the meaning of should be changed to refer to just the document related one, and the security related stuff retagged to one of the given alternatives.

If someone has a better suggestion for the lock-my-document concept's name, please post a comment or answer!

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    Nobody reads anything. Killing it completely is probably warranted. Jun 11, 2015 at 19:29
  • 6
    If you search [protection]document then only 40 post that use protection refer to document protection. that only represents 12% of all the questions. I think this tag just needs to do away. Jun 11, 2015 at 19:35
  • good point. don't forget the 45 for [protection]sheet
    – Barett
    Jun 11, 2015 at 20:27

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