2

(Reposted and deleted from Meta Stack Exchange)

The [r] tag gets a lot of questions of the form "is there a package to do XXX in R?" (for example, this recent question) - possibly because R is a DSL and many of its users are focused on data analysis goals rather than coding per se. These questions are usually closed pretty quickly under the rubric of:

Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic for Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam.

However, I'm not sure whether this is really entirely applicable, in large part because the R package ecosystem is a little bit special -- it consists of a huge number (6000+) of free and relatively well-curated, but not tremendously well-indexed, add-on packages.

  • Spam is rather unlikely (people do occasionally over-promote their own packages, but this doesn't happen too much)
  • If someone is just looking for a package (rather than asking about the comparative merits of different packages) these questions don't seem particularly prone to opinion-based answers.
  • It can be hard to navigate the R package world (despite meta-packages like the sos package and (underused) sites like crantastic) so users often need help
  • One could argue that the question should just be re-framed, but often it's not sensible to try to re-invent wheels and "use package XXX" is the right answer to the question ... (suggestions for how to reframe these questions are welcome)

That is, I don't question the conclusion "... are off-topic for Stack Overflow" but I question the premise ("... tend to attract opinionated answers and spam") for this particular tag community.

If I dislike these kinds of questions it's usually for lack of effort (which is technically speaking a reason to downvote, not to close).

Is the wider SO community's recommendation that I (and other [r]-denizens):

  • downvote rather than vote to close? (these questions are often clear and useful, so "lack of research effort" may be the only applicable criticism)
  • continue to apply the above close-vote rubric to stay within the wider SE framework?
  • edit/re-frame the question?
  • something else?

(related: A borderline between on-topic questions and questions about library recommendation?)

12
  • 13
    Do you honestly think that, "yes, there is a package" is an acceptable answer to such a question? I think not. It's technically asking if a package exists, but it's very clear that the actual intention is to be told what package to use. Since that's what the question is expecting, it's how it's treated.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 13:19
  • 3
    The distinction I was trying to make (not very successfully) is that users aren't necessarily asking for a comparison. And the wider point I was trying to make is that I think these questions aren't necessarily harmful within the restricted [r] context ...
    – Ben Bolker
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 13:22
  • 6
    The question is functionally asking, "what package should I use to do X". I see nothing here that makes this any different than any other such questions, or why tools in this language aren't going to have all of the problems in every other context.
    – Servy
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 13:25
  • @BenBolker: "We" can't make exceptions to the site's posting guidelines, just for a specific tag.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 13:55
  • OK, another procedural question: does the -9 vote on this suggest that I should just delete it, or is it useful to keep it around? (Or should I not delete it now that I've accepted an answer?) Is there a better way to rewrite the question?
    – Ben Bolker
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 14:48
  • 1
    If someone really needs a library they can go to softwarerecs.stackexchange.com. They have strict rules on how to do requests so that there's some objectivity but there is an SE site where these questions, if properly asked, are on topic.
    – BSMP
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 15:00
  • 2
    @BenBolker (Fellow R user here.) I think that's just meta being nasty and treating a discussion question like a feature request (which they all disagree with). I think the interesting gray area is when someone asks how to do something, not knowing that a package is required. We often close those as tool requests, too, it seems, not that I mind.
    – Frank
    Commented Jun 2, 2015 at 15:01
  • @BenBolker: Don't close the question. Voting on meta is used to express (dis)agreement with a question / answer. A negatively voted question isn't necessarily a bad question.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jun 3, 2015 at 5:49
  • 1
    @BSMP: never even heard of softwarerecs.stackexchange.com and it only has 29K active users, and a feeble 29(!) questions tagged 'r'. So that's no use. Finding the right package in R is exacerbated viz other languages, R repositories are littered with mothballed, broken, incomplete or vanity packages which essentially never die. This is a real problem since for any given task there are typically 3-5 packages, most of which are unuseable. Non-R users don't understand any of this context.
    – smci
    Commented Feb 19, 2018 at 2:57
  • ...since R is academic. Compare to Python or any other primarily-non-academic language, Darwinism prevails. The Python 3.x migration alone weeded out lots of dead packages.
    – smci
    Commented Feb 19, 2018 at 2:59
  • And unlike any language you've seen, R has four rival repos (three + github), due to (ahem) differences about what the release process should be. It's totally balkanized. That's why we need all the commands in devtools, just to make installing and updating package life sane. None of this happens in other languages. No non-R user will understand this. So you might like to refine your title from a generic one that doesn't mention R, to "What difficulties are unique to R in discovering evaluating which package for given task?"
    – smci
    Commented Feb 19, 2018 at 3:05
  • 1
    @BSMP: turns out it's even worse than that: softwarerecs.stackexchange.com has a feeble 29(!) questions tagged 'r', and most of those have zero answers! So there is no working solution in the SO universe. Googling R-bloggers or searching github or asking your grapevine are the real-world answer. Which is a deficiency in SO.
    – smci
    Commented Feb 19, 2018 at 3:09

2 Answers 2

5

I'd say they're off-topic on SO. We have a close-vote reason that fits questions like that very well:

Questions asking us to recommend or find a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource are off-topic for Stack Overflow as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Instead, describe the problem and what has been done so far to solve it.

To respond to a few arguments you have against this closure reason:

  • Spam is rather unlikely (people do occasionally over-promote their own packages, but this doesn't happen too much)

Any spam is too much already. Questions asking "Is there a package that does <x>?" are a open invitation for link-only answers, linking to some package a user wrote.
I would go as far as calling those requests unrelated to programming, since there often won't be a actual problematic piece of code in the question, when it's just asking for a package.

  • If someone is just looking for a package (rather than asking about the comparative merits of different packages) these questions don't seem particularly prone to opinion-based answers.

If someone is looking for a package, the only way you will not have an opinionated answer is if there's only 1 package that does what the OP requests. If there are multiple options, there will be opinionated answers.

  • It can be hard to navigate the R package world (despite meta-packages like the sos package and (underused) sites like crantastic) so users often need help

Frankly, the R package world being hard to navigate isn't SE's problem.
If users need help finding a package, I'm sure there are forums out there that can help. If they need help implementing them, on the other hand, SO's the place to be.

  • One could argue that the question should just be re-framed, but often it's not sensible to try to re-invent wheels and "use package XXX" is the right answer to the question ... (suggestions for how to reframe these questions are welcome)

I'd vote in favor of rewriting questions like that. Something like "How can I do <x>? I tried <y>..." leaves more room for good answers than "Is there a package that does <x>?"

2
  • It still feels a bit lacking. "How can I do <x>?" is okay, but who asks likely aims to find a package instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. So the "I tried <y>..." part could only constitute mentions like "I googled it", which no matter how much "googling" it involved, still could look like no effort. Somehow it should be acceptable that the primary goal of the poster was finding a package if any existed (I now refer to a rather general case, not the R package world, that is, where no appropriate forum might even exist).
    – Jubatian
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 9:21
  • "Somehow it should be acceptable that the primary goal of the poster was finding a package if any existed." The whole point of this answer is that questions looking for packages are a poor fit for SO. They're off-topic.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Aug 29, 2016 at 9:44
4

The prohibition on recommendation questions isn't just about the subjectivity of requesting the "best" resource - a question is off-topic if it is " asking us to recommend or find (emphasis mine) a book, tool, software library, tutorial or other off-site resource". Any question to which the correct answer would be a recommendation of any such item is off-topic, even if it does not request opinion-based assessment of that item.

Rather than asking "Is there a package that does [...]", a better way to ask an on-topic question is simply to ask "How can I do [...]?". This boils the question down to its on-topic essentials - a description of the problem or task at hand, and a request for help in solving it.

4
  • Surely if user posts a snippet of working code, then says "Is there a package that does/simplifies this?" that makes it objective and non-opinion-based?
    – smci
    Commented Feb 19, 2018 at 3:01
  • Perhaps, but "objective" and "non-opinion based" are not the only criteria for a question being on-topic, as clearly in my answer. Not sure what you're getting at here.
    – Sam Hanley
    Commented Feb 20, 2018 at 2:03
  • I know that, but it would invalidate much of your answer.
    – smci
    Commented Feb 20, 2018 at 2:08
  • I'm not sure what you think it invalidates - my answer says "the prohibition [...] isn't just about the subjectivity", and "[....] any such item is off-topic, even if does not request opinion-based assessment [...]". And in any case, this is a minimally upvoted, non-accepted answer to a dupe-closed question from almost three years ago that's been answered better by someone else (whose answer largely argues the same points as mine, just in better detail), so I'm not terribly invested in debating its merits.
    – Sam Hanley
    Commented Feb 20, 2018 at 13:59

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .